Wilfork speaks

[TealSox]

FIRST of all...

I have no problem with a player looking out for his better interests. If Vince feels that it is in his better interest to skip mandatory practices, then so be it.

WHAT I do have a problem with...

...is that this will likely be all-for-not. (1) Not too many Patriot players have been able to hold the team hostage for a new and improved contract. To my recollection, Seymour did a could years ago, but then again, Branch was shipped off to Seattle. (2) I can't imagine Vince's participation in OTAs is significant to his regular season performance. As a nose-tackle, he pretty much has one thing to practice and be in shape to do it. In fact, it will be best to get Ron Brace in there and coach him up in Vince's absence. Brace should thank Vince for the opportunity to add some dollars to his signing bonus. (3) Ron Brace is a viable replacement when/if Vince gets serious with his holdout and wants to miss some regular season games. And if that is the case, trade him. Sure Vince is one of the best at his positions, but being the best and being good at the nose tackle position is splitting hairs, IMO.

So...

Pats should sit back and let Vince do all the talking. Coach up Brace and get ready to move into the season without him. Thats all they can do without setting a precedent in the dust of record deal Albert Haynesworth got in WASH.

 

[Captn]

As a fan I have one concern - the Pats winning the Super Bowl without the players using illegal drugs, or the players being a bunch of thugs (criminals), or the coach or his staff pulling any crap which distracts from the pure joy of watching the Pats win football games.

I like the way Fat Vince plays the nose: he's tough, talented, and committed. But if he interferes with fan objective number 1 - winning the SB - then he can cry a river some where else. He's made millions, many millions more await him for playing a game whether he gets a new deal right now or not. If he thinks he's going to get me or 99% of the logical fans out there to feel sorry for his situation in this day and economic age then he's moving to exactly the fantasy land where far too many of these dudes spend their careers, and not many residing there turn out as winners...

You're right Vince, it is a business and it is tough, so do the tough and businesslike thing by shutting up and going to work. Geez...

Amen, you took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

last time I checked the NFL doesn't guarantee their contacts like the NBA or MLB so are they honoring the contract when they backload contracts with money they never plan on paying the player I find it hard to side with the billion dollar organization over the players who are the ones who live with disabilities and the ADL that become daunting tasks to complete I mean really have any of you met any of these former players most lineman remind me of war vets. It's the players that give us these championships we have been fortunate to celebrate because as long as the tickets are bought owners and their families will see profit whether we go out in the first round or win it all most owners not named kraft, laurie, etc. Are comfortable just staying competitive enough to keep asses in the seats it's the bruschi's of the world and wilforks that make it go and when they want to be fairly compensated they get run down on blogs and forums. If their play was poor they'd be cut before receiving a final big pay day but if they pursue it their villafied ......it's laughable as fans we would side with the billionaire boys club and their kids drivin Ferrari's on the backs of guys like anquan boldin etc.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Granted some players deserve it like deion branch, T.O with the eagles situation etc but not all and most ppl side with big business for some reason y'all probably thing college kids shouldn't be paid either. Which is ridiculous as well because the NCAA are modern day slave masters raking in all that profit with minamum expenses as it pertains to the product

 

[Deus Irae]

last time I checked the NFL doesn't guarantee their contacts like the NBA or MLB so are they honoring the contract when they backload contracts with money they never plan on paying the player I find it hard to side with the billion dollar organization over the players who are the ones who live with disabilities and the ADL that become daunting tasks to complete I mean really have any of you met any of these former players most lineman remind me of war vets. It's the players that give us these championships we have been fortunate to celebrate because as long as the tickets are bought owners and their families will see profit whether we go out in the first round or win it all most owners not named kraft, laurie, etc. Are comfortable just staying competitive enough to keep asses in the seats it's the bruschi's of the world and wilforks that make it go and when they want to be fairly compensated they get run down on blogs and forums. If their play was poor they'd be cut before receiving a final big pay day but if they pursue it their villafied ......it's laughable as fans we would side with the billionaire boys club and their kids drivin Ferrari's on the backs of guys like anquan boldin etc.

Let me try to just deal with the first part, since I'm not going to deal with socialism on this thread:

last time I checked the NFL doesn't guarantee their contacts like the NBA or MLB so are they honoring the contract when they backload contracts with money they never plan on paying the player

The answer is, obviously, yes. Since that money isn't guaranteed, there's no obligation to pay it unless the terms of the contract which trigger the payment are met.

Furthermore, the players know full well that they will not be receiving a $20 million dollar base salary when they turn 35 years old. They, along with their agents, understand that contracts need to be worked out in such a way that they fit underneath the salary cap. Only the foolish player and/or naive fan actually thinks that the team will be paying the player that ridiculous amount of money in the last year of the deal. That's why people who understand how it works will tell you that it's pretty much all about the guaranteed money and the first 3 years of the contract.

 

[Miguel]

You claiming that the Patriots wouldn't have caved is not the same as the team being put into that situation and not caving. But, that's besides the point.

As you point out, he could have sat out his rookie year. That would have put him back into the draft, and he could have worked out a deal with the team who drafted him at that time.

None of this involves forcing Wilfork to do something by threat of physical or emotional harm. Instead, it's using the CBA and contract law to, essentially, play a game of chicken. Both Watson and Wilfork blinked first, that's all.

Just as an aside, do you think that the Patriots would have caved to Wilfork in 2004 after Watson caved in???? The Patriots used Wilfork having to miss an entire season as leverage to get him to sign a 6-year deal. Wilfork may be using his ability to miss OTAs, TC, regular season games as leverage to get an extension.

 

[Miguel]

And he could have done this how???

I ask because it appears that it is very difficult for a Patriots first round pick to reach escalators.

Kaczur and Hobbs had their 2009 salaries increased by a higher amount than did Wilfork and Mankins. Is there anyone who thinks that the former duo have had better careers than the latter duo??

 

[Miguel]

it's laughable as fans we would side with the billionaire boys club and their kids drivin Ferrari's on the backs of guys like anquan boldin etc.

I wonder why it is OK for owners to engage in activities that will increase their wealth when they already have enough money to feed generations of families but not OK for players. Players should be satisfied with the millions that they have already earned. Owners do not have to be.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I wonder why it is OK for owners to engage in activities that will increase their wealth when they already have enough money to feed generations of families but not OK for players. Players should be satisfied with the millions that they have already earned. Owners do not have to be.

If we lived in an uncapped world or if Kraft was bumping against the league salary min every year so he could pocket the difference, I would agree.

Whether Wilfork doesn't get an extra $6 million this year, doesn't mean Kraft doesn't buy a sailboat, the team uses it on other players.

In baseball or when discussing what % of revenues should go to the cap that agruement makes sense. In this context it doesn't.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

FIRST of all...

I have no problem with a player looking out for his better interests. If Vince feels that it is in his better interest to skip mandatory practices, then so be it.

WHAT I do have a problem with...

...is that this will likely be all-for-not. (1) Not too many Patriot players have been able to hold the team hostage for a new and improved contract. To my recollection, Seymour did a could years ago, but then again, Branch was shipped off to Seattle. (2) I can't imagine Vince's participation in OTAs is significant to his regular season performance. As a nose-tackle, he pretty much has one thing to practice and be in shape to do it. In fact, it will be best to get Ron Brace in there and coach him up in Vince's absence. Brace should thank Vince for the opportunity to add some dollars to his signing bonus. (3) Ron Brace is a viable replacement when/if Vince gets serious with his holdout and wants to miss some regular season games. And if that is the case, trade him. Sure Vince is one of the best at his positions, but being the best and being good at the nose tackle position is splitting hairs, IMO.

So...

Pats should sit back and let Vince do all the talking. Coach up Brace and get ready to move into the season without him. Thats all they can do without setting a precedent in the dust of record deal Albert Haynesworth got in WASH.

The one plus of Wilfork holding out is it gives Brace more reps in practice. And without Wilfork really knowing how Brace is doing.

Brady's absense from the preseason games last year helped develop Cassel into an 11 win QB.

As the preseason goes on BB can better determine if Wilfork is nessary and how much he is worth to the Patriots to a much better extent than if Wilfork was on the field for 50% or more of the plays.

Maybe what BB sees will convince him Vince is worth what he is demanding, maybe he will decide he is not. But BB will be able to make that assessment much better without VW present than if he didn't skip.

Kinda like if you take vacation time from work, and are told the good news is your temp replacement did a great job there is no pile of leftover things for you to get caught up on everything went smoothly. The bad news is we realize we don't really need you and can pay someone 1/3 your salary to do the same thing.

 

[Clonamery]

If we lived in an uncapped world or if Kraft was bumping against the league salary min every year so he could pocket the difference, I would agree.

Whether Wilfork doesn't get an extra $6 million this year, doesn't mean Kraft doesn't buy a sailboat, the team uses it on other players.

In baseball or when discussing what % of revenues should go to the cap that agruement makes sense. In this context it doesn't.

And nothing prohibits players from increasing their wealth through similar activities by investing soundly or starting their own businesses where they can stiff their own employees as badly as the NFL owners stiff the players.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Socialism deus?! Lol the patriots I cheer for on Sundays are on the field not in a luxury suite wearing expensive Italian suits when kraft stares down the barrel while he knows he gonna get blown up by a 300 pounder or runs straight down the field and gets obliterated on special teams then let me know. And using your same logic than the patriots should be foolish in thinking the number 1 Nt in a billion dollar sport would play for a 6th year on a rookie contract paying 2 mil when the best at his position are making quadruple that. You can't be a shrewd businessman for the owners and when it comes t the players side go all noble I.E honor you committment etc that my friend makes you a hypocrite

 

[upstater1]

No, that's not the point. The point is that these players want to adjust their contracts upward when they 'outplay' them, but they don't want to take cuts when they don't. Gallery hasn't lived up to his status, and neither has Williams. Let them give some of that money that they didn't live up to to the players who earned it.

Or, and here's a radical idea, the players could make sure that the NFLPA holds out for changes in the CBA when the two sides meet to hammer out a new deal, instead of violating the contracts they've already agreed to.

Again, the difference between a 2nd day player who received little money for his first contract and outperformed it, and Wilfork, is huge. Wilfork will make rightly less than the 2nd day drafted Pro Bowl player, and that's as it should be because he received guaranteed money up front, whereas the 2nd day drafted Pro Bowl player didn't, but with a 6 year contract, Wilfork will stand to make HALF the money that a 2nd day drafted Pro Bowler would.

That's absurd.

 

[upstater1]

But your argument keeps coming down to one thing: Screw the CBA that we agreed to play by. And you're deliberately taking set fines as if they excuse behaviors, when they do just the opposite. OF COURSE you're violating your contract if you refuse to work for 6 months. That's why there are penalties built in when you do it.

I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying you have to honor the CBA.

I can leave work just like Wilfork can if I'm willing to not be paid, but I can't be fired for it. Why? Not because of my contract. But because of my union's CBA.

I'm not saying screw the CBA. I'm saying HONOR the CBA which allows you to leave work if you'll forego pay.

 

[upstater1]

Granted some players deserve it like deion branch, T.O with the eagles situation etc but not all and most ppl side with big business for some reason y'all probably thing college kids shouldn't be paid either. Which is ridiculous as well because the NCAA are modern day slave masters raking in all that profit with minamum expenses as it pertains to the product

That's a whole other discussion but I totally disagree with you on the NCAA, and I can easily explain why, so if you want to start that discussion on the off topic board, we should do that.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...3418-ncaa-paying-its-players.html#post1399046

 

[Patjew]

Vince, my BFF, just come to practice, win the mother****ing Bowl, and everything will work out.

Okay?

Okay.

 

[Synovia]

And nothing prohibits players from increasing their wealth through similar activities by investing soundly or starting their own businesses where they can stiff their own employees as badly as the NFL owners stiff the players.

The NFL players receive more than 50% of total revenue. If you can find a single other business market where that is the case, I'll be amazed.

 

[upstater1]

The NFL players receive more than 50% of total revenue. If you can find a single other business market where that is the case, I'll be amazed.

You're comparing apples to donuts to oranges.

What are the margins? What are the undisclosed revenues? What are the net profits? etc.

Hard to make any comparison unless we know these details.

If a company has small margins, then of course it's not going to give 50% of the revenues to employees. But some companies have very little overhead.

 

[Pats726]

The NFL players receive more than 50% of total revenue. If you can find a single other business market where that is the case, I'll be amazed.

What is the product in this business??? the players??? Makes sense that they should have a large portion of it...

 

[mgteich]

The position of many seems to be that the players are getting plenty, so they should shut up and take whatever the owners offer them in contracts for wahtever length.

The players in the early rounds have no economic choice. If you think they do, please list all the players who sat out their first year because of contract disputes. The list the salary and bonuses for the first six years of this player out of college.

Apparently some feel that Wilfork should take less because we fans feel that Kraft (because he is so generous) will give that money to other players.
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This situation is probably the best argument for a rookie pay scale by position drafted. We already have a rookie cap which has does little to solve the obvious problem. This situation has worked for so long because the players are so poor and the owners so rich. The players are indeed very happy to accept what the team forces them to take. It is only the hated agents that understand that they can have some influence on contracts and get the players a little more.