Wilfork speaks

[NumenorBlader]

Wilfork is one of the best in the game and has been dominating double teams for many years. IF he actually does want to end his career at the Patriots, which he said a few months back, then I don't see why he shouldn't restructure when he can, especially with this CBA thing up in the air. It's only fair he gets the proportional amount to what he puts in.

I don't like that he has to speak out about it, I guess we're just not used to it with the Pats backroom staff. But I'd rather it gets resolved before more serious ultimatums are used where we know the Patriots will be the last to blink. I'm not advocating we rush off to his demands. But hopefully soon enough something will be said to secure him of his future.

My £0.02

Blader.

 

[mgteich]

Really? Tell that to Milloy. The team has the unilateral right to cut a player at any point up to the beginning of Game One with so salary being owed. The team simply tears up the contract. For players who are not 5-year vets, they can even do this during the season. The player has no recourse, none.

The player can walk out and refuse to play. There are penalties for failure of the player to report.

Teams deal with contracts as allowed by current contract law and the CBA. The "but the team can cut him" is just a straw man.

 

[Deus Irae]

Could the team take him to court and get out of its contract because he was in breach? Could it successfully sue him for damages beyond the penalties specified in the CBA?

If not, then he's not violating the contract. The CBA is surely part of the contract, incorporated by reference.

Ummm..... the CBA governs where these matters are taken up. Just ask the Starcaps players about it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Really? Tell that to Milloy. The team has the unilateral right to cut a player at any point up to the beginning of Game One with so salary being owed. The team simply tears up the contract. For players who are not 5-year vets, they can even do this during the season. The player has no recourse, none.

The player can walk out and refuse to play. There are penalties for failure of the player to report.

The team having the ability to do that is a straw man argument. It doesn't mean that the team can't make that cut, just that using that to justify the actions of the player is building up a strawman.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Well, now we know why Brace was drafted. Nice knowing you Vince, and I look forward to watching you in 2009.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, I hope the team fines his ass for every day he misses and refuses to rescind the fines when he finally shows up.

Seems fair in my book too... I never like it when the rescind the fines.

I certainly don't hold it against the players sitting out voluntary workouts - can understand why they would sit out mandatory practices and accept the fines. And have no toleration for them actually missing games when they're under contract.

 

[patchick]

As long as he accepts the fines, he's not violating his contract.

Of course he's violating his contract -- the fines are punishment for the violation, not an alternative service option!

I love Vince, but he's playing out a substantial first-round deal. A deal like that is signed with the full expectation that you'll become an impact starter, so you can't really "outperform" it. I have more sympathy for a surprise day-2 success story who puts his body on the line for every play, year after year, on a minimum contract.

 

[Pats726]

Well, now we know why Brace was drafted. Nice knowing you Vince, and I look forward to watching you in 2009.

Brace was drafted as insurance..NOT just to possibly replace Vince..When was the last time they had two NTs that were physical??? (NOT counting Wright as he uses more quickness...) Actually in VW's rookie season...Traylor...and alos they had a 3rd..Ethan Kelly!!

 

[mgteich]

Was the situation different when the team raised Seymour's salary?

Of course he's violating his contract -- the fines are punishment for the violation, not an alternative service option!

I love Vince, but he's playing out a substantial first-round deal. A deal like that is signed with the full expectation that you'll become an impact starter, so you can't really "outperform" it. I have more sympathy for a surprise day-2 success story who puts his body on the line for every play, year after year, on a minimum contract.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Do you care about what tax rates are paid by people as wealthy as Wilfork?

If so (and you think they should be low), then I'm right to connect this to your political views.

WTF do we care about what you think of the poster's alleged political views as perceived by you? The topic is Wifie's tactics given his contractual obligations, league rules, his years left under contract and most importantly to me the impact to the team as perceived by fans. Gotta admit, I don't have lots of sympathy for guys already set for life financially regardless of what happens ongoing +/- a couple mill out of tens of millions. But hey, that's just me.

 

[Ring 6]

I want them to get a deal done, and I don't want him to get to free agency. However, skipping mandatory practices is not the way to do it. Any time any player does it, I'm immediately on the sign of management in regards to that particular action and the fining as a response.

I've reached the point where I can get used to anyone other than Brady leaving.
I am absolutely 100% confident that BB will take the cap space he is willing to spend on any player on the team (save Brady) and use it to get equally as much or more value on another player.
I'm over the days of seeking comfort in knowing who is going to be playing where and being convinced I know how good all of the players are.
This has happened for too long to have any doubt. Take away any and eventually all of the players, and BB will replace them and field a team that is usually one of the 2-3 best in the NFL and always one of the top 10 best.
If BB feel Wilfork is worth X and Wilfork wants X+1 BB will use X to find a group of players worth X or more. It just now seems like a fact of life.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I've reached the point where I can get used to anyone other than Brady leaving.
I am absolutely 100% confident that BB will take the cap space he is willing to spend on any player on the team (save Brady) and use it to get equally as much or more value on another player.
I'm over the days of seeking comfort in knowing who is going to be playing where and being convinced I know how good all of the players are.
This has happened for too long to have any doubt. Take away any and eventually all of the players, and BB will replace them and field a team that is usually one of the 2-3 best in the NFL and always one of the top 10 best.
If BB feel Wilfork is worth X and Wilfork wants X+1 BB will use X to find a group of players worth X or more. It just now seems like a fact of life.

I agree totally, within the rational bounds of superior performing human error.
I am such a homo.

EDIT: Homer.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Well that's not good at all.

What's he want the Pats to do anyways for this year, doesn't he realize they're pretty much right up against cap

 

[patchick]

Was the situation different when the team raised Seymour's salary?

Was my opinion different when the team raised Seymour's salary?

 

[upstater1]

Of course he's violating his contract -- the fines are punishment for the violation, not an alternative service option!

I love Vince, but he's playing out a substantial first-round deal. A deal like that is signed with the full expectation that you'll become an impact starter, so you can't really "outperform" it. I have more sympathy for a surprise day-2 success story who puts his body on the line for every play, year after year, on a minimum contract.

I disagree with this since most all the 1st rounders in his year had a 5 year contract. Ty Warren had a 5 year. Vince wasn't paid a higher average than the player selected directly ahead of him who only signed a 5 year contract.

The Patriots extended Warren, but they won't do the same for Vince, and that's why he's upset.

But, that doesn't mean I would sign him this year. I would simply have a talk with him and tell him that the CBA issue is huge for future planning, and that if the CBA were not expiring, then they would certainly sign Vince this year. The fact is, the Patriots could be in the position of signing Vince at a much higher rate than other teams that will try to lure him.

 

[upstater1]

I fully understand that as contracts are written teams can cut players as they please and only be on the hook for the signing bonus. I get it. Players get it.

I just think that it's funny that when a player sees the contract as no longer in his favor, people think he has no recourse and its too bad he shouldn't have signed the contract. And I suspect when it comes time for a new CBA this imbalance will be addressed.

Anyway, my opinion on player hold outs is case-by-case; I'm not so idealistic that I take a universal ethical stance one way or the other.

In Wilfork's case, many would argue he is the best 3-4 NT in the game and has outplayed his contract. I would. So I see no problem with him making a little noise about an extension, esp. on the low back-end of a rookie deal. I felt the same way when Seymour went through something similar a few years ago, and that worked out well. (Just as this will.)

When I usually don't side with players is when a vet re-negotiates a new contract, then one or two years later holds out for even more money. In that case, you just had a chance based on a body of work to negotiate the best deal possible (i.e. an amount not based on where you were drafted and nothing more), so you shouldn't complain too loudly a few years later about out-performing it. Blame your agent.

Except the 6 year deal Wilfork took is the longest rookie contract in history and no other players were forced into that deal in the ensuing years.

Which means that lesser players than Vince (he is a Pro Bowler) drafted in later years will have contracts expiring prior to his, and they will be cashing in on a big contract at a younger age.

I sympathize with Vince on this.

That doesn't mean I want the Patriots to sign him this year, not with a potential uncapped year coming up.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I've reached the point where I can get used to anyone other than Brady leaving.
I am absolutely 100% confident that BB will take the cap space he is willing to spend on any player on the team (save Brady) and use it to get equally as much or more value on another player.
I'm over the days of seeking comfort in knowing who is going to be playing where and being convinced I know how good all of the players are.
This has happened for too long to have any doubt. Take away any and eventually all of the players, and BB will replace them and field a team that is usually one of the 2-3 best in the NFL and always one of the top 10 best.
If BB feel Wilfork is worth X and Wilfork wants X+1 BB will use X to find a group of players worth X or more. It just now seems like a fact of life.

Lucky for us Brady never pulls this crap and he never will. He and Tedy and in his day Rodney are the only guys who would honestly play for nothing but the chance to win. I like Wilfork. Better than Seymour on a lot of levels. But I wish someone would step up and be a real home grown leader on this defense. I know most of the fan base nowadays just wants to win every year...but this is why I wished BB hadn't done what he did with Seymour. And why I always believed he wouldn't finish his career here. Now Vince may not either. This is why Lawyer had to go, only he poisoned Seymour before he left and now Seymour has poisoned the next generation. I hope Mayo is missing OTA's because they have him locked in a soundproof room...

Tommy could have held them up royally after they traded Bledsoe. He was still on his crap 6th round rookie deal making mid 6 figures. Not so much as a peep. And didn't even blink when they offered him a mid level incremental deal to replace their $100M franchise QB while Manning was making double digit millions. Just went out and proved he was worth top tier money. Then three years later after his third ring when THEY wanted to revisit his contract and lock him up, even after after Kraft anounced it was with the caveat that he not expect Manning money...and even after they ****ed around with him for a couple of months over how many increments he should be willing to take his options bonuses in...he still essentially signed their home town discount deal with nary a peep. He takes home $8M this season. He should be organizing holdouts, but instead he's lobbying for pre season snaps to shake his rust off. If only Bill could find 52 like him.

Vince is obviously uncomfortable doing what he is attempting to do. He should ask himself why. His rookie deal had upwards of $9M in escalators in the final two seasons. If he needed to make more maybe he should have made it his mission to have earned more of them.

And if BB in fact does come across some extra cap to spend on an extension, he should extend Brady just to make a point.

 

[upstater1]

Of course he's violating his contract -- the fines are punishment for the violation, not an alternative service option!

I love Vince, but he's playing out a substantial first-round deal. A deal like that is signed with the full expectation that you'll become an impact starter, so you can't really "outperform" it. I have more sympathy for a surprise day-2 success story who puts his body on the line for every play, year after year, on a minimum contract.

One other thing, the day two draftee has a contract that ends after 3 years and he cashes in bigtime. In Vince's case, he's averaged about 1.7 million a year over 6. A second day player will earn 500k over 3, and if he's as good as Vince, he'll sign for $6 million a year over the next three. That means the first rounder will make $10 million over 6 years while the second day draftee makes $19.5 million over 6 years. There's clearly an imbalance with longer rookie contracts.

Now, I'm not saying Vince should get paid as much as the second rounder because he took a big guaranteed signing bonus when he signed the rookie contract, and that's part of the gamble from both sides. But I do think that the 6 year contract that Wilfork signed, a contract few other players in the league ever had to sign, works against him.

 

[upstater1]

Lucky for us Brady never pulls this crap and he never will. He and Tedy and in his day Rodney are the only guys who would honestly play for nothing but the chance to win. I like Wilfork. Better than Seymour on a lot of levels. But I wish someone would step up and be a real home grown leader on this defense. I know most of the fan base nowadays just wants to win every year...but this is why I wished BB hadn't done what he did with Seymour. And why I always believed he wouldn't finish his career here. Now Vince may not either. This is why Lawyer had to go, only he poisoned Seymour before he left and now Seymour has poisoned the next generation. I hope Mayo is missing OTA's because they have him locked in a soundproof room...

Tommy could have held them up royally after they traded Bledsoe. He was still on his crap 6th round rookie deal making mid 6 figures. Not so much as a peep. And didn't even blink when they offered him a mid level incremental deal to replace their $100M franchise QB while Manning was making double digit millions. Just went out and proved he was worth top tier money. Then three years later after his third ring when THEY wanted to revisit his contract and lock him up, even after after Kraft anounced it was with the caveat that he not expect Manning money...and even after they ****ed around with him for a couple of months over how many increments he should be willing to take his options bonuses in...he still essentially signed their home town discount deal with nary a peep. He takes home $8M this season. He should be organizing holdouts, but instead he's lobbying for pre season snaps to shake his rust off. If only Bill could find 52 like him.

Vince is obviously uncomfortable doing what he is attempting to do. He should ask himself why. His rookie deal had upwards of $9M in escalators in the final two seasons. If he needed to make more maybe he should have made it his mission to have earned more of them.

And if BB in fact does come across some extra cap to spend on an extension, he should extend Brady just to make a point.

I agree with you on Brady not holding the team up for more money but you can't compare what he did back then to Vince's situation. First off, Brady had a three year deal. He needed his third year to make him a bonafide star even after leading the Patriots in his second year to a SB victory. That means Brady knew he was going to cash in right away, and that making a peep after replacing Bledsoe with the Patriots holding the reins back on their offense would have been counterproductive. Players with 3 year rookie contracts are going to cash in, especially if they become stars, whereas the Pro Bowlers with 6 year contracts are going to complain, inevitably.

 

[Jackson 2]

I've reached the point where I can get used to anyone other than Brady leaving.
I am absolutely 100% confident that BB will take the cap space he is willing to spend on any player on the team (save Brady) and use it to get equally as much or more value on another player.
I'm over the days of seeking comfort in knowing who is going to be playing where and being convinced I know how good all of the players are.
This has happened for too long to have any doubt. Take away any and eventually all of the players, and BB will replace them and field a team that is usually one of the 2-3 best in the NFL and always one of the top 10 best.
If BB feel Wilfork is worth X and Wilfork wants X+1 BB will use X to find a group of players worth X or more. It just now seems like a fact of life.

Bingo - you got bingo...