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Wilfork at DE?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Aug 15, 2010.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This was brought up in another thread but I think it warrants its own.
    When Wilfork was drafted there was talk of him playing DE. He played there some last season.
    Seynour started as a NT and was moved to DE because he could have more impact there. (Warren also started on the nose, but under different circumstances)
    Brace is back, and of course there are miles and miles to go before we can be comfortable that he belongs on the field, but on the day he was drafted he was expected to be a stout run defender.
    There is alredy an ongoing discussion about him at DE, however, he would definitely be better inside.
    Assuming Brace is one of our 3 best run defending DL by the end of preseason, would BB play him on the nose and move Wilfork to DE?
    I'm not taking a side either way on this yet, pimarily because I just havent seen enough of Brace to judge him, but I have no doubt that Wilfork can be effective at DE.
    Thoughts?
  2. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no question with regard to Wilfork being effective at DE. However, he is all-pro at NT. It would indeed great if Brace was so good at NT that we couldn't afford to keep him out of the starting lineup.

    Personally, I just don't see Brace with that kind of potential.
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would never hurt our up the middle run defense to put Vince on one side. I know they did it for a specific matcup agaisnt Miami but this doesn't interest me at all. Having Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes up the middle and largely forcing teams to run outside of the Guards is a great start to the run defense even if there are problems further out.
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He doesnt need to be another Wilfork, just an effective space eater, who can hold the los vsthe double. (I know that is saying a lot)
    With Wilfork and Warren flanking him and Mayo and Spikes behind him, holding his ground will be plenty.
  5. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    What would VW be doing differently than at NT?
  6. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If those 2 are on the field together, you would like the man over the T to be the more mobile one, both because of potentially having a larger area of the field to defend, and for pass rushing. I wouldn't expect Wilfork to be a great pass rusher, but I can see him bull ruishing some Ts one on one. He also wont be neutralized by doubleteams in the running game.
  7. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    So he would likely have to utilize more lateral movement at times?
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I think Wilfork's understanding of the defense, technique, etc. are solid enough by now that he could, at least in theory, play DE at a very high level. And he surely has most of the physical skill set as well.

    So this could be different from efforts like Vrabel at ILB, Thomas at ILB, or Faulk as feature back.

    My concern would be pass rushing skills -- but would the team's pass rush be any better with, say, Wilfork at NT and a revived Brace at DE than vice-versa?

    So yeah -- it's not a ridiculous possibility.
  9. RayClay

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    Suppose it depends on where Brace hurts you least. Wilfork is very athletic. Brace has long arms. Without Seymour and Warren, I don't think any combinations are out of the picture depending on matchups.
  10. RayClay

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    Wilfork would have some pass rushing ability, he used to be fairly fast. Brace would probably be like watching the slow motion replay, except it would be in real time.
  11. Tyler.Durden

    Tyler.Durden Rookie

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    Myron Pryor is a guy i have high hopes for. Really impressed me last year.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  12. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    bugress is back and we still have not seen Jermaine Cunningham, play im pretty sure they will be better at seting the edge then Marques Murrell, did the other night



    my point is with wilfork, spikes, and mayo, in the middle better OLB's siting the edge and chung comeing down in the box no one will make a liveing off of running the football on the pats this year.
  13. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    He played DE a bunch last year against certain teams. Whether he continues to do it on a more "full-time" basis, I think, depends a lot on Brace's development.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not that confident that Brace will even make this team.. his injuries and early issues with TC may cause him as spot on this roster..
  15. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    My concern about Brace at NT is that last year, he didn't have enough grasp of leverage to get onto the active roster anywhere on the line most weeks. At NT, you have to maintain leverage against two opponents most plays. I'd hate to have a NT who could consistently be beat by the C and a chipping G, who goes on to greet Mayo/Spikes. Wilfork is damn good at what he does. I'd rather see Brace work into the mix at DE on 1st down against teams like the Jets and in short-yardage packages. Speed at DE won't be my top concern there.
  16. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Rookie

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    Put Wilfork at DE and run a Zone blitz with wilfork dropping in coverage....I would love to see him pick one off and see how far he could take it....:eek:
  17. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    To put it another way -- who, exactly, would tackle Wilfork, or even get convincingly in his way? :D
  18. Goal_Line_Stand

    Goal_Line_Stand Rookie

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    We're kind of jumping ahead of ourselves here. Brace has been a total disappointment thus far!

    He was pretty damn good in college but can't make in on the field in the pro's for one reason or another. I don't think the system is too hard from what I remember he scored well on the wonderlic.
  19. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    It would be funny watching potential tacklers hanging off him. Whilst Rb's are throwing themselves at his feet.
  20. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Lets try brady as WR. look at hoyer he is real good and if we move brady to WR he can be awesome as a averegeQB like edelman can be such a good WR.

    i say BB should think about converting brady to WR.
  21. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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    Considering Wilfork played DE during the Dolphins game and parts of the Ravens game, I don't think its a far stretch to continue to see him played there. I was hoping they could have drafted Mount Cody but I'm not disappointed with what we got instead.

    The big question is "if Brace is the man" to be starting, what is his best position.. It appears, from a previous thread, he's working at DE.

    There is no question Wilfork has the potential to be a great DE in a 3-4 defense.. Very much like Ngata, who can play all three positions. The real quesiton is, where is our strenght now with players like Pryor, Richard, Deadrick and ect.. do we have more talent at DE or NT. If its DE, Wilfork should stay at home.. But if we have a possible starting NFL quality NT, then Wilfork should slide out..
  22. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I say you should save those analogies for a thread where they're relevant.

    DE and NT do the same things, just in a different mix and with different reads. Sort of like the three different WR positions.
  23. Box_O_Rocks

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    -- We know Wilfork can play NT at a high level.
    -- We know Mike Wright is an effective reserve NT.
    -- At the end of last season I'd have said Myron Pryor could effectively play NT as a reserve, at least for brief periods, but he looked horrible at nose against NO so he bears more monitoring.
    -- Gerard Warren has taken camp reps at NT and is a 10 year veteran whom I'd give the benefit of the doubt.
    -- Brace is a blank sheet of paper waiting for the pen.
    -- Kyle Love looked very raw with some decent potential the other night.

    Does NE move Vince to DE? At the moment I'd say situationally only, and I doubt there'd be any significant interest in a permanent move.

    Brace may have started working at DE because of the need to build depth there, or Pepper may feel he's better there and have no immediate plans for him at NT. Pryor may just be struggling with a new technique and will be fine by the time the season gets here. If Deadrick continues to improve - Reiss noted he was the only rookie to get 1st half reps - or if someone else steps up at DE then Wright might be available for the Nose again. As things currently stand, I see no value to shifting Vince outside and considerable value to keeping him at nose with the way things are starting to shape up at ILB.
  24. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Rookie

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    While I can agree that wilfork won't kill us at being a DE I think that brace will be better at DE and wilfork staying at the nose....Here's why....

    At NT your job is to eat up blockers and don't get pushed back.....VW has a lower center of gravity with short arms and is very capable of holding his ground and even gets some push.....

    At DE in a 3-4 your first job is to eat up blockers but you also have to be able to read and react......Brace has longer arms so he can use them to keep the O-lineman away from his body and shed them to either side depending on where the RB is going......Also he is taller then VW so he will have the more vision possibly seeing around/over the O-line to see where the play is going.....

    Now I do agree with the posters that say it will hurt our pass rush with both of them in there but against teams like the Jests that run the ball 70-80% of the time it will help out a bunch......These are just my reasons as to why like brace at DE more than VW...
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think highly unlikely that Brace would be considered one of our best run defending Dl's by the end of THIS preseason. There is ZERO chance of him being good enough in a month to consider moving Wilfork. Perhaps this COULD be a consideration in a year.

  26. Deus Irae

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    Dale and Holley have the scoop. Wilfork is working at the QB position today.
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He has been here a year and been evaluated. There is no doubt the team knows where he was last year, what they think his potential is, and can assess how far he has come in a few weeks. No decisions are made with 100% certainty, and I dont think it takes a year to determine how Brace plays in the next 3 weeks. Good or bad his role this season will be determined by previous evaluation, adjusted over the next 3 weeks, THEN constantly adjusted over the course of the season.
    Perhaps I am wrong but I dont think a year long study is required to assess his 2 gap run D ability and how it has developed over the off season.
    My starting point is that his potential is that he can be a good 2gap run defender, which is why he was a 2d round draft pick. Its not like he showed up today sight unseen.
  28. RhodyPatriot

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    Yeah I think Vince can handle playing DE. Don't think it will be a full-time switch but I definitely think we'll see Vince over there when needed this season. Will most likely depend on who they're playing that day and how the young players develop through the season.
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