Wide Receiver - scouting the prospects

[DaBruinz]

There wasn't anyone of that ilk last year, save for Crabtree who in ten weeks put up very promising numbers.

In 2008, Ryan, McFadden, Stewart, Jones, Johnson and mendenhall were all seen as game-breakers - all have delivered bar Mcfadden (who is by all account being criminally mis-used in Oakland).

In 2007 you had those bums Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson.

Great job name all of those "OH MY GOD" potential WRs. I didn't realize that McFadden, Stewart, Jones, Johnson,. and Mendenhall were all WRs. OH wait. They aren't. Not to mention the fact that neither Jones nore Mendenhall were considered to have "OH MY GOD" potential. Nothing like making sh!t up.

If you are going to argue something, make sure you stay on topic. Otherwise you look bloody foolish.

If you're just talking receivers, there's only been CJ and Crabtree worth a high pick, and one has shown his brilliance on the worst team in history, whilst the other has been promising.

I guarantee that if we could all go back to 2007 and put ourselves ina position to Draft Johnson or Peterson, we would, because they are potential HOF types.

Johnson was considered a mid 2nd round pick and MANY people (not myself) said that the Titans were foolish for taking Johnson,. In fact, that year in the Forum's Mock Draft, I was the Titans GM and chose Johnson in the 2nd round and was ridicules something fierce.

If you were using "hindsight" yes, everyone would go and try and draft all the "star" players, but we're not. We're using reality.

The same goes for the Fab Four next year. They have Moss-like size, speed and talent.

Says you maybe. But that doesn't mean that the Pats MUST draft one of them.

In fact, the last time the draft had 4 "OH MY GOD" WRs was in 2005. They were Braylon Edwards, Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, and Mark Clayton. With Matt Jones, Roddy White, and Reggie Brown supposedly right behind them. Tell me how that worked out for teams...

I don't give two hoots how we want our offense to run, if you're in a position to pick game changing players; players with HOF potential, you do so. Worry about balance later. That was the thing about 2007, we had HOF players AND balance (well, until Morris went down).

If we're in a position in 2011 to draft a Green, Baldwin, Jones or Floyd, and we don't, I'd ask questions.

Why would you ask questions? There is another WHOLE YEAR between now and then and a LOT of things can happen. Look at George Selvie. He was a can't miss 1st round prospect last year as a junior. He chose to stay in school and now he's a borderline 2nd/3rd rounder.

BTW, What if none of them declare next year with the uncertainty of the NFL's CBA contract? They all will be JUNIORS next year and will still have at least a year of eligibility left.. Making the assumption that they'll want to come out and walk into a lockout isn't too bright.. But then, it is still a year away. So lots can happen.

 

[DaBruinz]

I still say saved the 2011 Oakland pick for A.J. Green out of Georgia, he will be a top 5 pick next year. At 6'4" 207, he is a true Jr coming into next year. His numbers were down last year due to a string on injuries. But by the time he is done next year he will be a consensus top 5 pick.


There are a few guys especially late that a worth taking a flyer on (The Pats will have at least 5 maybe 6 picks in the 7th round.

I doubt any of these guys even get a combine invite, but well worth a looksee..

Wes Lyons, 6'8" West Virginia: 6'8"!!!!!! Worth a shot, could you imagine the redzone possibilities.


Freddie Barnes, WR, 6' 210, Bowling Green- the NCAA career receptions leader, and still no invite to the combine, quick (not fast) just gets open and makes the catch. Everything about him, says, Troy Brown.


Bryan Anderson, WR, 6'5", Central Michigan, Leflevour's favorite target, once again not going to be the next Randy Moss, but could be groomed into a more than serviceable NFL receiver.

It is kinda wierd that Barnes, who is rated as high as a 3rd rounder and as low as a UDFA signing hasn't gotten an invite.

As for Lyons and Anderson, they could be intriguing. Can't be any worse than Chad Jackson..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'd rather draft a stud DE with that Raiders top draft pick next year than a wide receiver. BB probably feels the same way. I don't think he's ever drafted a WR in the first round, has he?

So this year is as good a year as any to get a quality WR.

While I agree with the DE need...I have to bite the bullet and take the Polianesque NFL offense favored rulebook into consideration and say it may be smarter to draft a stud WR. :bricks: BB may indeed go that route since he's shown a willingness to adapt to offense-centered football as the rules changed.

I'm also a firm advocate that WR is the team's #1 need this offseason and can't be put off until 2011. I want a multi-purpose playmaker like a Mardy Gilyard or Antonio Brown on Day Two, a project pick like Marcus Easley in the late rounds (though I won't kick in NE grabs a Blair White or Anthony Roberts possession type a little earlier), and sign at least one high production, possession kid like Bryan Anderson in Free Agency. Build depth and competition in 2010 so 2011 isn't a crushing need at WR so BB has more flexibility to consider the BPA with Oakland's pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

While I agree with the DE need...I have to bite the bullet and take the Polianesque NFL offense favored rulebook into consideration and say it may be smarter to draft a stud WR. :bricks: BB may indeed go that route since he's shown a willingness to adapt to offense-centered football as the rules changed.

I'm also a firm advocate that WR is the team's #1 need this offseason and can't be put off until 2011. I want a multi-purpose playmaker like a Mardy Gilyard or Antonio Brown on Day Two, a project pick like Marcus Easley in the late rounds (though I won't kick in NE grabs a Blair White or Anthony Roberts possession type a little earlier), and sign at least one high production, possession kid like Bryan Anderson in Free Agency. Build depth and competition in 2010 so 2011 isn't a crushing need at WR so BB has more flexibility to consider the BPA with Oakland's pick.

Box - I respect your opinion, but the only way that WR becomes the #1 need over OL, DL, and LB is if the Pats cut Randy Moss. Right now, the Pats do not have a starting RG, a Starting RDE, or a starting NT. They also need an OLB and possibly and ILB if they go back to the 3-4.

Do they need a WR? Yes, upon further review, they do. But not nearly as much as the other positions mentioned.

 

[bucky]

Box - I respect your opinion, but the only way that WR becomes the #1 need over OL, DL, and LB is if the Pats cut Randy Moss. Right now, the Pats do not have a starting RG, a Starting RDE, or a starting NT. They also need an OLB and possibly and ILB if they go back to the 3-4.

Do they need a WR? Yes, upon further review, they do. But not nearly as much as the other positions mentioned.

Wilfork will most likely be tagged, so they do have a starting NT. I would also argue that their options at RG (Connely, Ohrenberger, sliding Kaczur to G) are much better than their options at WR (Aiken, Tate).

I would agree though that there is no DE, no OLBs (Thomas is as good as gone and TBC is unrestricted), and TE is a problem. From a depth perspective, WR and OLB are the biggest needs though. I personally feel than there are enough needs and enough picks that any of OLB, WR, TE, DE would be a good pick at 22 regardless of what happens in free agency.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box - I respect your opinion, but the only way that WR becomes the #1 need over OL, DL, and LB is if the Pats cut Randy Moss. Right now, the Pats do not have a starting RG, a Starting RDE, or a starting NT. They also need an OLB and possibly and ILB if they go back to the 3-4.

Do they need a WR? Yes, upon further review, they do. But not nearly as much as the other positions mentioned.

Randy turns 33 next week and is entering his contract year. Before the 2011 season starts you need to re-sign him and plan for a 34 year old WR who might be 35 before he again plays football if there's a lockout. I can very much see BB weighing the relative value of a top tier WR in the Polianed NFL vs. a top quality DL or rush LB or an OT.

 

[letekro]

Randy turns 33 next week and is entering his contract year. Before the 2011 season starts you need to re-sign him and plan for a 34 year old WR who might be 35 before he again plays football if there's a lockout. I can very much see BB weighing the relative value of a top tier WR in the Polianed NFL vs. a top quality DL or rush LB or an OT.

I'm coming around to your way of thinking. Sign Dansby, draft Benn or Tate in rd 1, pick up a back, and spend the rest of the draft beefing up the lines.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm coming around to your way of thinking. Sign Dansby, draft Benn or Tate in rd 1, pick up a back, and spend the rest of the draft beefing up the lines.

I'm not advocating taking a WR in 2011, I'm just not taking it off the table in favor of DE or DL or OT whichever gets people most excited. Heck, QB isn't off the table in 2011.

For 2010, WR is a major issue with the residual hangover from 2009 - I don't know the top rated WRs in this draft well enough to advocate for one in round one, but I do know Mardy Gilyard and Antonio Brown who can be Deion Branch-type playmakers with a Tommy Brady pulling the trigger. Teamed with Moss, Edelman, and Tate you've got some WR/PR/KR depth for all WR positions.

Drafting a raw kid like Easley in the late rounds and hoping Randy Moss and Tommy Brady can imprint the NE work ethic and situational football template on him is just gold panning with those throwaway late round picks - but with his speed and size he could grow into a #1 WR with the right influences - and if Moss, Brady, and a hyper competitive pool of youngsters isn't the right influence then he can join the Chad Jackson fan-club for a lot less in draft value.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Danario Alexander....just throwing that out there. 6-4 and if he runs around a 4.50 I'd take him in the 5th or 6th.

 

[captain stone]

While I agree with the DE need...I have to bite the bullet and take the Polianesque NFL offense favored rulebook into consideration and say it may be smarter to draft a stud WR. :bricks: BB may indeed go that route since he's shown a willingness to adapt to offense-centered football as the rules changed.

I'm also a firm advocate that WR is the team's #1 need this offseason and can't be put off until 2011. I want a multi-purpose playmaker like a Mardy Gilyard or Antonio Brown on Day Two, a project pick like Marcus Easley in the late rounds (though I won't kick in NE grabs a Blair White or Anthony Roberts possession type a little earlier), and sign at least one high production, possession kid like Bryan Anderson in Free Agency. Build depth and competition in 2010 so 2011 isn't a crushing need at WR so BB has more flexibility to consider the BPA with Oakland's pick.

I completely agree, Mr. Box: WR is such a pressing need that I too want to see one of our 2nd-rounders used on the BWRA - but no Bethel/CJack trade-ups!

 

[ayjackson]

I've seen a bit on Youtube on Carlton Mitchell. He looks like an interesting midround pick to me. Has anybody seen much of him? Was he in the senior bowl?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've seen a bit on Youtube on Carlton Mitchell. He looks like an interesting midround pick to me. Has anybody seen much of him? Was he in the senior bowl?

He's a junior who declared early, I don't know much about him, but his draft profile looks interesting.

 

[Seneschal2]

In an effort to stay on topic, I'll avoid commenting on which positions BB ought to address first.

The WR position has to be prioritized in a way that will make a difference this season. Sure Moss' future is a concern, and perhaps a new addition can be his replacement down the road. But for now, there's a serious vacancy at that 3rd WR role. I think BB has learned not to put all his eggs in one basket and attempt to fill that vacancy with only one player. It makes more sense for him to explore his FA options by signing one, drafting another relatively early (R-2?), and perhaps a developmental sleeper later on. This plan will create competition between the FA acquisition, the early draftee, and Brandon Tate (whenever he's ready). With this kind of insurance, odds are, one of the three will be able to step into that vacancy and become a complimentary receiver to Moss as an intermediate downfield target for this season. And if/when Moss departs, Welker, Edelman, and the aforementioned additions may be ready to form a very credible WR corps.

This draft's crop of receivers are decent enough to find one who can contribute for this season. This thread will be alive throughout the Combine and Pro Days in the hope that someone will step forward as the one who fits best.

 

[MaineMan]

In an effort to stay on topic, I'll avoid commenting on which positions BB ought to address first.

The WR position has to be prioritized in a way that will make a difference this season. Sure Moss' future is a concern, and perhaps a new addition can be his replacement down the road. But for now, there's a serious vacancy at that 3rd WR role. I think BB has learned not to put all his eggs in one basket and attempt to fill that vacancy with only one player. It makes more sense for him to explore his FA options by signing one, drafting another relatively early (R-2?), and perhaps a developmental sleeper later on. This plan will create competition between the FA acquisition, the early draftee, and Brandon Tate (whenever he's ready). With this kind of insurance, odds are, one of the three will be able to step into that vacancy and become a complimentary receiver to Moss as an intermediate downfield target for this season. And if/when Moss departs, Welker, Edelman, and the aforementioned additions may be ready to form a very credible WR corps.

This draft's crop of receivers are decent enough to find one who can contribute for this season. This thread will be alive throughout the Combine and Pro Days in the hope that someone will step forward as the one who fits best.

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me!

 

[MaineMan]

Danario Alexander....just throwing that out there. 6-4 and if he runs around a 4.50 I'd take him in the 5th or 6th.

He was very disappointing at the Senior Bowl. Slow off the line, even when not pressed, no burst in the open field, rarely got separation, never on the same page with the QB, mediocre hands.

Blair White is 6'2", projects to run 4.55 (same as Brandon Marshal did), is always open at the right time and catches nearly everything thrown his way. Plus, he and Hoyer were teammates. He'll probably go in the 4th, though.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The WR position has to be prioritized in a way that will make a difference this season.

This.

Sure Moss' future is a concern, and perhaps a new addition can be his replacement down the road. But for now, there's a serious vacancy at that 3rd WR role.

Multiple vacancies at slot, 3, and four, plus a "1" extension issue on the horizon. For example:

1: Moss... Who else presently with the team is capable of even 1b duty, let alone 1a or big dawg 1 roles? Depth is my concern.
2: Which for argument's sake we'll call the slot. Edelman is "penciled in," he's not a given. Further, depth again raises it's knobby head.
3: Tate is "penciled in," but based on college production. Depth, 'nuff said.
4: ?
5: Aiken
Stanback = #3 QB & WR... :confused2:
Slater = Aiken, sorta.
Darnell Jenkins = PSquad mystery.
Welker: PUP, perhaps a late returner (Heavenly Father, grant Wes a bionic knee and "full" recovery; in Christ's Name. Amen).

NE is a 3-5 wide formation team at present, there is a depth issue at all but #5, there are open battles to be fought at 2, 3, & 4. The NFL is now more than ever an offensive-based league and the Pats need to create the competition for those three spots and the #1 depth role in the offseason. Some advocate Stallworth, fine, he's a 4 to pencil in, but he's not enough and I'm not intrigued by the WR Free Agent pool. Perhaps some trades will occur, it's now waiver time and there might be some cuts that could help, but overall I see the draft as the better resource - sad as it is to say that.

I think BB has learned not to put all his eggs in one basket and attempt to fill that vacancy with only one player. It makes more sense for him to explore his FA options by signing one, drafting another relatively early (R-2?), and perhaps a developmental sleeper later on. This plan will create competition between the FA acquisition, the early draftee, and Brandon Tate (whenever he's ready). With this kind of insurance, odds are, one of the three will be able to step into that vacancy and become a complimentary receiver to Moss as an intermediate downfield target for this season. And if/when Moss departs, Welker, Edelman, and the aforementioned additions may be ready to form a very credible WR corps.

This draft's crop of receivers are decent enough to find one who can contribute for this season. This thread will be alive throughout the Combine and Pro Days in the hope that someone will step forward as the one who fits best.

We are following parallel thought processes, I just can't find the Free Agents on the uncapped UFA list who instill confidence in that shopping option, whereas I do see draft options who can be strong contenders early.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

This.

Multiple vacancies at slot, 3, and four, plus a "1" extension issue on the horizon.

So if Moss is the Z receiver and Edelman is the slot receiver, then we need an X receiver.

Interestingly enough Golden Tate reportedly played the X receiver at Notre Dame. In theory he should be able to contribute immediately in our offense.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So if Moss is the Z receiver and Edelman is the slot receiver, then we need an X receiver.

Interestingly enough Golden Tate reportedly played the X receiver at Notre Dame. In theory he should be able to contribute immediately in our offense.

NE needs an "X" and whichever letter you care to use for a fourth WR in a 4-wide formation. I'd prefer if the "X" be capable of picking up part of the "Z's" role with the 4th filling his shoes.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I like Benn and Tate but there's no guarantee they will last till our picks in the second round. But you never know between now and the Combine. Plus there's always a chance that some receiver could run a 4.2x at the combine and drastically boost their stock. See Derrius Heyward-Bey.

PS Check out this receiving statistics for 2009:
Receptions 9
Receiving Yards 124
Receiving average 13.8
Receiving TDs 1

Yes and he gets paid annually over 7M dollars. Great move, Crazy Al!!

 

[sg14]

After reading this makes me wonder if we will see much less 5 wide next year?

Also, why not resign Watson, one less new guy for Brady to get used to throwing to. They have some history together, not alot but some.

This.

Multiple vacancies at slot, 3, and four, plus a "1" extension issue on the horizon. For example:

1: Moss... Who else presently with the team is capable of even 1b duty, let alone 1a or big dawg 1 roles? Depth is my concern.
2: Which for argument's sake we'll call the slot. Edelman is "penciled in," he's not a given. Further, depth again raises it's knobby head.
3: Tate is "penciled in," but based on college production. Depth, 'nuff said.
4: ?
5: Aiken
Stanback = #3 QB & WR... :confused2:
Slater = Aiken, sorta.
Darnell Jenkins = PSquad mystery.
Welker: PUP, perhaps a late returner (Heavenly Father, grant Wes a bionic knee and "full" recovery; in Christ's Name. Amen).

NE is a 3-5 wide formation team at present, there is a depth issue at all but #5, there are open battles to be fought at 2, 3, & 4. The NFL is now more than ever an offensive-based league and the Pats need to create the competition for those three spots and the #1 depth role in the offseason. Some advocate Stallworth, fine, he's a 4 to pencil in, but he's not enough and I'm not intrigued by the WR Free Agent pool. Perhaps some trades will occur, it's now waiver time and there might be some cuts that could help, but overall I see the draft as the better resource - sad as it is to say that.

We are following parallel thought processes, I just can't find the Free Agents on the uncapped UFA list who instill confidence in that shopping option, whereas I do see draft options who can be strong contenders early.