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why would franchise Deion next year?


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Re: Projecting the 2007 Tag Numbers for wideouts

Miguel said:
DB's take during the years 2006 through 2009 would be close to $30 million if we figure a $12 million take in 2009. Compare that to the Patriots's offer of close to $20 million for the same period and I wonder why Branch and his agent do not want to get franchised.

You neglected that DB is UNDER CONTRACT for 2006. Point should be moot, but not in the eyes of the 'it's only about me' generation.

Agree that they should not 'want' to get franchised both for money and for injury & lack of productivity protection.
 
PatsWickedPissah said:
No, no and no.
Should nobody make an acceptable offer, the Pats could well afford to pay him.
That's the entire point.
Branch & his agent know that.
But there's no long term 'injury' protection in a 1 year franchise contract.
A moot point in that the Pats would in reality take the cap hit pre-draft and then make a trade for the best offer.

The Pats *could* afford to pay him, but would they?

The Pats right now are willing to give him $8 million guaranteed in a contract that makes him theirs until the 2010 season. If they franchised him next season, they'd be giving him $7 million guaranteed only to have him a FA again in '08. He's not worth that much to the Pats, especially if Jackson is developing at a good rate, and considering that there will likely be WRs availabe in FA who will sign multi-year contracts for little more guaranteed money amortized over a greater time.

The only reason to keep him for that kind of money would be a sense of outrage that he'd end up a FA and getting his way if you withdraw the tag.

I don't see the Pats operating out of that kind of vindictiveness.
 
No, all they have to do is take the $8M cap hit in '07, NOT until 2010, until they trade him for whatever they can get. if he holds out this season it WILL happen this way.
 
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I'm not sure if this has been expressed - apologies if it has and I'm not quoting somebody for credit.

Somehow or another, it seems like everyone seems to assume that the Pats will only franchise Branch in order to work a trade. Actually, that seems to me to be unlikely. A team signing a franchised player has to give up two 1st round draft picks (unless I'm out of date as to the terms). Do we REALLY think any team will give that much up for Branch plus give him the fat contract that he seems to demand ?

Also consider that there is a pretty good possibility that teams could trade for Branch right now for less than two first round picks. So if nobody wants him now for a lesser cost than to get him from a franchise tag, why would the Pats - or anyone else for that matter - think that there would be any trade offer next year ??

On the other hand, the Pats could decide that he was worth a (per Miguel) $7.685M amount for one season especially since they would have no risk of losing an entire signing bonus if there was a career ending injury. To me that would be their sole decision process. If somebody did offer a full trade package then, they would deal with that. They have gone ahead and paid some hefty numbers on Law and to a certain extent McGinest - so who knows whether they would regard Branch as worth it.

While they are obviously so far keeping the option of franchising him, I doubt that they have any real notions yet as to whether they would do so and probably are spending little thought on it - after all, who knows what Branch's state of health will be and how Caldwell, Jackson, and Childress might develop this year. There is, I think, a real possibility that they will just let him go to free agency next year as they have done with so many players.

Just some thoughts.
 
Just to clarify. The listed compensation for signing a franchise tag player by another team is two 1st round draft choices. But, the two teams are able, and usually do, negotiate a more reasonable compensation package. The classic "tag 'n trade" maneuver, recently used by the Pats to move Tebucky Jones to the Saints.

If Branch has not signed an extension by next offseason, I can't imagine that the Pats wouldn't tag 'n trade him.
 
arrellbee said:
I'm not sure if this has been expressed - apologies if it has and I'm not quoting somebody for credit.

Somehow or another, it seems like everyone seems to assume that the Pats will only franchise Branch in order to work a trade. Actually, that seems to me to be unlikely. A team signing a franchised player has to give up two 1st round draft picks (unless I'm out of date as to the terms). Do we REALLY think any team will give that much up for Branch plus give him the fat contract that he seems to demand ?

Your entire line of thought fails on the LITERAL interpretation of franchising. As far as I know NOBODY EVER got 2 #1s for a franchised player.

Hello! Give BB SOME credit in realizing The Twig's real 2007 trade value, which is likely one #1 ath the VERY best, probably less. On the high end if he comes in and gets 1,000 yds and on a much lower end if he sits out 10 games or more.

Point being that the Pats will not just give up and get nothing as many folks here totally ignorant of the Pats management style suggest.
 
F.B.N. said:
If Deion does not resign by Friday he's as good as gone. He won't be franchised because Belichick will not force him to play...he will be allowed to be a FA. 50/50 on him staying by Friday..... 25/75 he remains a Patriot for the rest of the year and 1/99 that he is a Patriot beyond this year.

Gotta disagree with you on that one - I based on the principal alone BB would franchise Branch to teach a lesson to other players who attempt the same tactic and refuse to honor their existing contract. That's not being vindictive - that's just making sure that all players understand the principals that the front office works under.

"If you try to blackmail the team by holding out, you will not get what you want - you will get the exact opposite"

Giving him what he wants sends the exact opposite message: "Hold out in an effort to get us to agree not to franchise you next year and you can pretty much be assured we'll give you exactly what you want and let you walk"



Becoming a FA next year is what Branch desparately wants - and there's no way BB is going to reward him for his actions this season with that sort of move - and hurt his team by declining the opportunity to get something of value for a trade... especially when the franchise salary is still relatively affordable

One note to Quigon - I second the motion that you leave politics out of your signature line - if it were something a little more subtle we could probably let it go but it's a bad precedent

I'm sure you understand
 
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Miguel,

As I understand the "trades", the player comes to a deal with the trading team, and the trading team negotiates compenstation with the patriots. What they get is that the patriots agree to remove the tag. Everybody gets what they negotiated for.

Doesn't this fall down when the player isn't cooperating. Can't Branch simply say cut me and sit out for a year. I don't you can trade a player you don't have signed to a contract.

Even if Branch signs the franchise, all another team gets is Branch for one year.

It would seem that the key for Branch would for him to have a good insurance policy, since the only downside for Branch is injury.

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BTW, don't any contracts between the player and the team have to filed with the league, including one where Branch agrees to come back if the patriots agree not franchise him in 2007.
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I think posters make way too much of the franchise tag. It is rarely used and usually causes animosity.
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Personally, I think Branch wants to grow into a #1 receiver, and given the market for players like Givens, he probably can, and be paid as one.
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Given his injury history, his next contract will be his "big" contract. I think he may be willing to wait.
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mgteich said:
Doesn't this fall down when the player isn't cooperating. Can't Branch simply say cut me and sit out for a year. I don't you can trade a player you don't have signed to a contract.

I think that you can but what team will trade for Branch unless they have worked out a long-term deal with Branch.
 
mgteich said:
I think posters make way too much of the franchise tag. It is rarely used and usually causes animosity.

The franchise tag is used all the time by just about every team in the league. I agree that teams would generally prefer to negotiate long-term deals with key players. But, for the most part, NFL teams are perfectly willing to use the franchise tag to protect the value of their investments in drafted players.
 
mgteich said:
BTW, don't any contracts between the player and the team have to filed with the league, including one where Branch agrees to come back if the patriots agree not franchise him in 2007.
Yes.

I think posters make way too much of the franchise tag. It is rarely used and usually causes animosity.
IIRC, the franchise tag has been used on a couple of players each and every year since 2000.

Given his injury history, his next contract will be his "big" contract.
Branch, Chayut and I may be the only ones who thinks that all of this board's talk about Branch's injury history is overblown. Branch played in every game last year. Branch missed 7 games in 2004 because, IMO, he was unlucky to have Steve Neal crashed into him. When I first saw the replays of that play, I thought that Branch was done for the season. Branch has played in 28 straight NFL games. I do not get why playing in every game last year is discounted but missing 4 games in 2002/2003 is given so much weight.
 
Are the patriots are willing to pay Branch $7M after Branch holds out until Game 10 this year and again next year until just before Game 1? I think not. The team doesn't need the distraction.

This doesn't really matter, Branch will likely cave and sign a long-term deal. However, I don't see how signing Branch for $6M with a year left on his contract helps the FO with other players.

hwc said:
The franchise tag is used all the time by just about every team in the league. I agree that teams would generally prefer to negotiate long-term deals with key players. But, for the most part, NFL teams are perfectly willing to use the franchise tag to protect the value of their investments in drafted players.
 
mgteich said:
Are the patriots are willing to pay Branch $7M after Branch holds out until Game 10 this year and again next year until just before Game 1? I think not. The team doesn't need the distraction.

They will tag n' trade him if an extension is not done. Tagging him would be an essential step in obtaining trade value for the little weasel. Otherwise, he's an unrestricted free agent and they get nothing. That would be stupid. It's just a business decision that can be totally independent of whether they actually want him on the team. They didn't want Tebucky Jones, but the tag n' trade allowed them to get nice compensation for a player that otherwise would have left as an unrestricted free agent.

The only reason they would not tag him would be if they had another player they wanted to tag more.
 
After weeks of discussion I can't believe how many people here are stll befuddled and struggling with the whole concept of the use of the franchise tag. It is a means to retain control over a player you are unable to sign. You do it to retain the rights to the asset either until you can get him signed long term or traded, or if you simply want him for another year at a top end salary but do not want to commit to him long term - provided of course you can fit the hit under your cap.

If you really have no intention of trading the player you "exclusive franchise tag" him as we did with Adam. That means no team can talk to him and his salary is based on the highest paid 5 players at his position in the current season rather than the highest paid 5 from the previous season.

If you think you likely can't sign him long term (and perhaps don't even really want to like the Jets and Abraham) but you still want compensation for him (and you can either afford to pay the salary if you have to or you believe he will not sign his tag which means even if no deal is readily available you could pull it in June if you decide to just let him go as the Eagles did with Simon last season) you "non-exclusive franchise tag" him which means he can shop himself but anyone who signs him to a long term deal will owe you prescribed compensation. Buyers will seldom pay that stiff double price so a deal is worked out for lesser (but still usually significant) compensation. The so called tag and trade. Or, if the player never attracts serious attention and has not signed his tag you pull it and he is free to negotiate albeit well after the early buyers have used up their cap. That is why Simon ended up in Indy - they had a need but were among the few with cap room in June of 2005 and jumped at the chance to sign a name DL for less than he'd have cost them on the competitive FA market 3 months earlier.

If Branch is playing well at the end of the 2006 season the Pats would have no problem paying Deion $7M and having it all count on the 2007 cap. The deal they already offered would count $6M in 2007 if they opted not to convert that $4M option bonus and amortize it - which in their new pay as you go mode they might plan to do. That reality likely wasn't lost on Chayut either. Deion can certainly refuse to play under a 2007 tag, but after sitting out TC and 10 games and making zilch in 2006 the chances that he would sit out an entire season in 2007 and force his family/families onto food stamps because he hasn't earned a nickle in 2 years are slim and none. And going forward as a FA having played in just several games in the last 2 seasons his value and reputation would be less than optimum, while he'd be looking to make up between $7-10M in lost income from 2 of his potential peak earning seasons between age 29 and 33 which is when his peak will start heading into the valley.

The tag continues to exist much to the chagrin of the NFLPA's members because it works for teams as a leverage tool to selectively extend their control over un-restricted FA. It only benefits players who are wildly overpaid under the tag. Like Woodson ended up being in Oakland last season because he was injured. Of course that history also limited his true take in UFA this season as his phony 7 year $52M Poston deal only pays him $18M in the first 3 seasons and only guarantees him his $10M signing bonus which makes him expendible if need be in 2 seasons. At $7M for one season Branch would be overpaid but not wildly so unless he's really fragile and only worth about $4M about like Woodson turned out to be only worth possibly $6M.
 
And so if Branch were cut today, well after the early rush, you think he wouldn't get big money?

MoLewisrocks said:
After weeks of discussion I can't believe how many people here are stll befuddled and struggling with the whole concept of the use of the franchise tag. It is a means to retain control over a player you are unable to sign. You do it to retain the rights to the asset either until you can get him signed long term or traded, or if you simply want him for another year at a top end salary but do not want to commit to him long term - provided of course you can fit the hit under your cap.

If you really have no intention of trading the player you "exclusive franchise tag" him as we did with Adam. That means no team can talk to him and his salary is based on the highest paid 5 players at his position in the current season rather than the highest paid 5 from the previous season.

If you think you likely can't sign him long term (and perhaps don't even really want to like the Jets and Abraham) but you still want compensation for him (and you can either afford to pay the salary if you have to or you believe he will not sign his tag which means even if no deal is readily available you could pull it in June if you decide to just let him go as the Eagles did with Simon last season) you "non-exclusive franchise tag" him which means he can shop himself but anyone who signs him to a long term deal will owe you prescribed compensation. Buyers will seldom pay that stiff double price so a deal is worked out for lesser (but still usually significant) compensation. The so called tag and trade. Or, if the player never attracts serious attention and has not signed his tag you pull it and he is free to negotiate albeit well after the early buyers have used up their cap. That is why Simon ended up in Indy - they had a need but were among the few with cap room in June of 2005 and jumped at the chance to sign a name DL for less than he'd have cost them on the competitive FA market 3 months earlier.

If Branch is playing well at the end of the 2006 season the Pats would have no problem paying Deion $7M and having it all count on the 2007 cap. The deal they already offered would count $6M in 2007 if they opted not to convert that $4M option bonus and amortize it - which in their new pay as you go mode they might plan to do. That reality likely wasn't lost on Chayut either. Deion can certainly refuse to play under a 2007 tag, but after sitting out TC and 10 games and making zilch in 2006 the chances that he would sit out an entire season in 2007 and force his family/families onto food stamps because he hasn't earned a nickle in 2 years are slim and none. And going forward as a FA having played in just several games in the last 2 seasons his value and reputation would be less than optimum, while he'd be looking to make up between $7-10M in lost income from 2 of his potential peak earning seasons between age 29 and 33 which is when his peak will start heading into the valley.

The tag continues to exist much to the chagrin of the NFLPA's members because it works for teams as a leverage tool to selectively extend their control over un-restricted FA. It only benefits players who are wildly overpaid under the tag. Like Woodson ended up being in Oakland last season because he was injured. Of course that history also limited his true take in UFA this season as his phony 7 year $52M Poston deal only pays him $18M in the first 3 seasons and only guarantees him his $10M signing bonus which makes him expendible if need be in 2 seasons. At $7M for one season Branch would be overpaid but not wildly so unless he's really fragile and only worth about $4M about like Woodson turned out to be only worth possibly $6M.
 
MoLewisrocks said:
The tag continues to exist much to the chagrin of the NFLPA's members because it works for teams as a leverage tool to selectively extend their control over un-restricted FA.

The CBA can not always favor the players.

It only benefits players who are wildly overpaid under the tag.
It also benefits players who are about the Benjamins. Walter Jones and Orlando made out like bandits under the franchise tag.

Like Woodson ended up being in Oakland last season because he was injured. Of course that history also limited his true take in UFA this season as his phony 7 year $52M Poston deal only pays him $18M in the first 3 seasons and only guarantees him his $10M signing bonus which makes him expendible if need be in 2 seasons. At $7M for one season Branch would be overpaid but not wildly so unless he's really fragile and only worth about $4M about like Woodson turned out to be only worth possibly $6M.

FYI - http://tinyurl.com/lenkt
 
mgteich said:
And so if Branch were cut today, well after the early rush, you think he wouldn't get big money?

I think that he will. A team does not need that much cap room in 2006 to sign Branch. They could sign Branch to a deal that has a large option bonus in 2007 which could be protected by guaranteeing 2008/2009/2010 salaries if the option is not exercised. That type of deal was done with most of the 1st rounders this year.
 
Here's a question. IF the Pats do a "tag and trade" and can't trade him (because Branch thinks he's underpaid on the contract offers he gets and thus pouts and whines), are they stuck with him at the franchise price? Or can they pull the franchise tag and tell him he's a FA at any time?

IF they really don't want to pay him 6-7M for a disgruntled cancerous player (even for one year with no signing bonus) and are worried about being stuck, then I would think that would enter into their decision.

AFter all, the compensatory SHOULD be a 3rd, and cancer man might not command a 1st.
 
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