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Why we need health care reform

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    For the last time, everyone (or almost everyone) is in favor of health care reform. It's just thatn many of us are not is favor of THIS health care reform.

    Also, looking at life expectancy solely based on health care is stupid. You need to look at exercise levels, nutrition, alcohol and drug abuse (that goes for infant mortality too). Blaming or praising life expectancy on one thing is stupid.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have said Ten Thousand Times " health care in America needs FIXING it doesn't need to be REPLACED by a plan drawn up behind closed doors in secrecy and then RUSHED through by a gang of filthy lying scumsucking grinning politicians so nobody will get a chance to read it.

    Doesn't it bother Obama Groupies that those Pelosi/Reid swine don't want the people to know what is in their bill.

    WHEN YOU TRY TO HIDE SOMETHING THAT MEANS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE

    Come voting time the democrats will pay dearly for all this sneaky cover up sh!t.
  4. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    OK, I'll bite. What reforms would YOU prefer?
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One of the key services that most national health care models provide is a national strategy on preventative health care. For instance, I lived in Sweden during the AIDS epidemic, and the country went all out to address the issue, educating people in ads on buses and on tv, making condom machines widely available, and so on. We were much slower to move on this issue. Also, in Sweden, the anti-drug efforts are far more successful than the ones here. At any rate, it seems unlikely that if you put our health care system into Sweden they would end up with anything more than increased costs. The only health care reform that I've seen advocated by conservatives is tort reform, but studies show that would not save that much money and would penalize victims of malpractice, as well as abusers of the system.

    Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs The Washington Independent

    The experience of Texas in capping damage awards is a good example. Contrary to Perry’s claims, a recent analysis by Atul Gawande in the New Yorker found that while Texas tort reforms led to a cap on pain-and-suffering awards at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which led to a dramatic decline in lawsuits, McAllen, Texas is one of the most expensive health care markets in the country. In 2006, “Medicare spent fifteen thousand dollars per person enrolled in McAllen, he finds, which is almost twice the national average — although the average town resident earns only $12,000 a year. “Medicare spends three thousand dollars more per person here than the average person earns.”
  6. atomdomb

    atomdomb Rookie

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  7. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    What is this, groundhog's day ? I've only given my opinion about 1,000 times. I don't feel like doing it all again but tort reform, less regulation of insurance, health savings accounts, insurance only for catastrophic issues only, etc.
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    One of the problems is insurance is over-regulated. I can't get a policy where I work without all kinds of crap I don't need. But they have to offer it in the packages. They aren't allowed to correctly price (liberals call it discriminate) their policies based on age, gender, health, etc. It's not true insurance, it's more like prepaid healthcare. I'd be much better off having a catastrophic plan, paying less, putting the difference in a health savings account and spending from that for smaller more optional stuff as needed.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What do you mean by tort reform? An end to victim's rights? If a doctor botches a procedure and your child becomes an invalid for life, what cap should government impose on the victim's care and the family's suffering? As far as less regulation of insurance, are you saying that insurance companies should be allowed to build pools for the healthy and price the sick out of the market? As far as catastrophic issues go, what do you consider catastrophic? Is it based on your particular income bracket? For a poor family, the cost of fixing a broken limb might well wipe out all their resources. Frankly, it sounds like you presented a few talking points, but certainly not a plan.
  10. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    It wasn't meant as a plan, as I said, I've talked about it ad nauseum. But saying you're going to cut $500B from Medicare and saying the costs are for 10 years but only starting to consider the costs until 4 years later therefore counting just 6, isn't a viable plan either. It's crap. Having health savings, accounts with assistance to the poor, that can grow when unused and having people choose what they want to pay for instead of getting anything with the shrug of a should because insurance is paying is a ridiculous system.

    How much do you think garages would charge for an oil change if everyone's car insurance covered them ? Probably about $200 because no-one would care.
  11. JackBauer

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    I see. So a bunch of ideas that do little if anything to tackle the two main goals of the current reform push.
  12. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    LMAO, the big issue is COST. If cost is reduced then options of more coverage for the poor become possible. My suggestions address COST, the current bills don't address cost, they just shuffle money around.
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    The issue is that when you talk about it ad nauseum, it's not always accurate. Like when you claimed the current bill would cause premiums to rise, when in reality the exact opposite is projected to occur.

    ...and right on cue:

    Talk about a Captain Renault moment...
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  14. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have that option(or something very similar) where I work; it's only an option not the only hc plan they offer but those that have it LOVE it. You can split up your savings into specific areas too, like if you wear glasses/ contacts for ex you can contribute more into your vision spending acct, people with dental problems can opt for doing the same with their dental plans, etcetc.

    In general I think HC has become way too expensive, that's the bottom line. And recently COBRA's come into the radar.

    HC's not only expensive but it's also become way too complex. Not just the plans themselves but the actual healthcare itself, the science and medicine of it. Interesting stats cited by surgeon Dr. Atul Gawande.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/5/dr_atul_gawande_on_real_health

    He makes a good point, especially about making sure all that new information and all that new research is deemed safe and right. One good thing to start with, the FDA:


    Martha Rosenberg: Do You Know Where Your Child Is?

    So who's watching THEM?
  15. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    That's the irony of it all. The Senate bill is going to raise the cost of healthcare and make it harder for people to afford. Exact opposite of what was advertised.
  16. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I fail to see the irony, given that what you stated is entirely inaccurate and wildly divergent from projected outcomes.
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    One of the bills, I forget which, cuts HSAs from $5K 20 $2500 annual contributions. Complete wrong direction.
  18. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Americans are typically, fat, addicted, lazy and stressed. Not to mention all the processed crap we ingest. So, I think based on the chart we are getting a pretty good deal. Supersize, me!
  19. JackBauer

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    So are you advocating preventative and perhaps even paternalistic intervention on the part of the government to stem the tide of this epidemic?
  20. Leave No Doubt

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    Par for the course. Plus there's no public option which is what many of the Dems wanted in the first place. Good works are done in the sunshine and all of that, it's so hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept supported by so many here; that it's OK for this HUGE bill that's going to cost ALL of us, to be discussed behind closed doors. I can't believe some here advocate that, especially just because it's their party/candidate/or whatever rationalizations one may come up with, and even worse they somehow believe all this will benefit them. :eek:

    Always remember: what the govt giveth the govt can taketh away.

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