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Why Was Kerry a Flip-Flopper and Obama is Not?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Kerry flopped on several issues .. not many really. Obama flops on a weekly basis and the media lets him ... why???

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2008/6/23/barack-obama-serial-flip-flopper.html


     
  2. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The story I was reading a couple of days ago, a right leaning blog I believe, said that the problem is Obama is likable, Kerry wasn't so Obama isn't going to get hammered for being a flipper and a flopper and a waffle boy.
     
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Kind of makes me want to puke ... :banned:Obama :banned:
     
  4. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Didn't you say you were actually probably going to vote for Obama, even though you hate him so? :D
     
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Yeah ... I did ... I've had enough of paying for wars right now.:confused:
     
  6. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    No offense, but if you're going to vote for him, you might want to stop attacking him.
     
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Why ... it's fun.

    To be honest I don't like Obama or McCain .. lousy year for me to vote. :bricks:
     
  8. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Doesn't it make you a hypocrite?
     
  9. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I've found that the more liberal or conservative you are, the more you are likely going to have to flip flop. For the simple reason that Obama has to shift his typical positions closer to the center for the general election, becasue if he doesn't get that vote, he won't win.

    You'll notice the relatively few things McCain flops on are drown farther out to the right because he's has to mobilize his conservative base, because if they stay home, he won't win. Obama is a pretty liberal guy, he has to come off some of his positions. HE'S a politician after all. He HOPEs you don't notice, but he's not going to CHANGE.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Deval Patrick squared.
     
  11. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Reagan didn't flip or flop and he got a giant margain of victory twice.
     
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm always suspicious about someone who never changes their mind. They are more often than not.... stupid
     
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    Old Ronny certainly wasn't a rocket scientist, but he did know how make a person feel good about being an American.
     
  14. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    IMO, assigning a specific designation such as stupid to such a broad spectrumed concept like "moving (or not moving) on or off a particular stance" is taking a fairly narrow view on things.

    The "stupidity" of it would depend entirely on specific subject, one's personal conviction or lack there of, and the potential ramifications incurred as a result of staying or not staying with that position.

    There is also no possible way to quantify "more often than not" without taking a those qualifiers into account.

    Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I'll admit I was being verbally lazy, but at the same time I think you might be guilty of being somewhat verbose and intentionally clueless because I think you know what I mean. I was sayng that I don't trust someone who always thinks they're right no matter what the evidence and information. Pure "decisiveness on its own is meaningless.
     
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Comment
     
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Hypocrite ... that's crazy.

    So is your view that if you like someone you cannot criticize them?
    If you vote for someone you must like 100% of what they stand for?

    My view is that you vote for who you either agree with or whom you
    feel will do the best job for the country. That might not be what's best
    for me ... however ... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

    Political discussion is about your opinions a.paul ... opinions are not absolute.
     
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Actually ... I think it's because the politician is listening to others too much. This is what hurt Kerry when he lost... he spent too much time listening to others to shape his views. Obama will learn to be the best judge of what he says will mean to speak in his own voice.
     
  19. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree with that last point, but you were too general the first, so it kinda got lost somewhat.

    Well, I did kinda THINK I knew what you were saying, but as I was nodding, I kept thinking of examples where I said "No, glad that person stuck to their guns", or otherwise admired that trait. On the flip side, everyone can admit that some examples of the same behavior that made them nuts of frustrated.

    In fact the simple act can be both described as steadfast or resolute on the one hand while someone else could look at the same event and describe is as pure stubbornness. Totally depends on whether you agree with them or not. For example, history will probably judge Bush as stubborn (negatively), while Lincoln (who was very unpopular in his time) will be forever known as resolute. That's why I said it's too hard to quantify or to generalize that "more often then not".

    There no need for "intentionally clueless" type comments, they really don't get us anywhere. There was no intentional cluenessness. I responded to your generalized comment. Tit for tat is not overly productive, for any of us.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  20. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Well...I didn't explain my statement well, and I apologize for that. What I was thinking of is the sheer joy and vigor you were showing going after Obama about various things, yet saying you thought he was the most qualified of the two. I shouldn't have said hypocrite, but I couldn't think of another word at the time...and still can't.
     

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