Why the Pats won't move to the 4-3...

[JackBauer]

Last I looked, the quarterback doesn't make a 40 step drop, so 40 times are irrelevant. Explosiveness off the line and ability to get around blockers is more important than straight line speed. Don't get me wrong, I love the 3-4 defensive line we have but the team lacks the linebackers right now, especially if there are injuries (and even then, without Seau, the team only has one legitimate middle guy and Bruschi is hardly the star he once was).

I would argue that given the team's LB situation, we are actually LESS equipped to play the 4-3 than the 3-4.

There is not a spittin' chance in hell that Bruschi would be anything more than terrible as a 4-3 MIKE at this point in his career. And Vrabel is pretty lead footed, too.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Does anyone remember that game a few years back, possibly 2004, possibly a Sunday Night or Monday night game, where the Patriots defense played a 0-7 defense. No one was down and everyone just hovered off the line like a to-be blitzing linebacker. Thats was neat.

Yeah, that's the "Yeah, sure, you're going to run" defense. [As opposed to the JEST, who pulled out the "Try the quarterback sneak, we dare you" 5-2(?)-4(?) defense in their last playoff loss.]

 

[jays52]

I realize that there are ways of dropping and blitzing, but the 43 is largely vanilla. Of course there are stunts and slants, but nothing you wouldn't see in D3 college ball. I also think the Pats don't have the personel to play the 43. I think AD would be the closest thing they have to an upfield end, and I don't think his first step is explosive enough to straight up beat a bucket step.

The primary concern is confusion. How would the Patriots effectively utilize their main competitive advantage with an additional hand down? The level of potential schematic complexity increases exponentially when you have effective 34 linebackers. This also correlates directly to passing packages with five, six or seven db's. The Patriots have been effective due to their cerebral approach to the game. The 43 isn't exactly thinking man's football.

 

[primetime]

I would argue that given the team's LB situation, we are actually LESS equipped to play the 4-3 than the 3-4.

There is not a spittin' chance in hell that Bruschi would be anything more than terrible as a 4-3 MIKE at this point in his career. And Vrabel is pretty lead footed, too.

This is true, but it's infinitely easier to find a 4-3 Mike than it is to find 3-4 MLBs. Then again, the Steelers have had very little problem with it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Last I looked, the quarterback doesn't make a 40 step drop, so 40 times are irrelevant. Explosiveness off the line and ability to get around blockers is more important than straight line speed. Don't get me wrong, I love the 3-4 defensive line we have but the team lacks the linebackers right now, especially if there are injuries (and even then, without Seau, the team only has one legitimate middle guy and Bruschi is hardly the star he once was).

There relevent insofar that is the only thing I had for comparison. If I had their 10 yard times, I'd have posted them. But they weren't available. The only 10 yard split I have is Mario Williams at 1.6 seconds. His broad jump was 10 foot and his vertical was 40.5 inches.

The team LACKS the linebackers needed to play in the 4-3. Bruschi isn't mobile enough in the middle to be there. He doesn't have the sideline to sideline speed that's needed of a middle linebacker. Only Thomas has the ability to cover guys effectively for any length of time, but he's better suited as the Rush End. Vrabel doesn't have the ability to cover well, which is why the Pats used Alexander against Dallas Clark 2 years ago.

 

[BRiZ]

Do you realize how STUPID it would be for the Pats to have two 310 lb DEs on the field? They wouldn't have much luck putting pressure on the Passer and even the most mediocre QBs would have a field day on the Pats.

yea about as stupid as having 6-6ish 290 lb Mario Williams and Julius Peppers on the field. Most of the elite DE's are -huge-. Warren is 6-5 300 lb he is about the same size as Williams and Peppers and could certainly play DE in the 4-3 hes a great pass rusher.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

yea about as stupid as having 6-6ish 290 lb Mario Williams and Julius Peppers on the field. Most of the elite DE's are -huge-. Warren is 6-5 300 lb he is about the same size as Williams and Peppers and could certainly play DE in the 4-3 hes a great pass rusher.

I don't think you understand what he means. Seymour and Warren are slow and lack explosiveness. Mario Williams and Peppers both are very quick off the snap.

However, this is a stupid arguement because the Pats aren't going to a 4-3 anytime soon.

 

[BRiZ]

I don't think you understand what he means. Seymour and Warren are slow and lack explosiveness. Mario Williams and Peppers both are very quick off the snap.

However, this is a stupid arguement because the Pats aren't going to a 4-3 anytime soon.

Peppers and Williams arent that much quicker than Warren, Seymour im not even considering him at DE in a 4-3 i said he would play DT in the middle. Warren is a good pass rusher and slightly bigger than Williams and Peppers, its not like he couldnt play DE in a 4-3 though. If you want something more along the scheme of the Giants and DE ends that rush like Osi then Warren wouldnt be your guy. But Warren would be more physical and stout against the run like Peppers etc.

Anyways we could pull off a 4-3 all we need to do is draft a MLB to upgrade Bruschi.

 

[JackBauer]

Peppers and Williams arent that much quicker than Warren, Seymour im not even considering him at DE in a 4-3 i said he would play DT in the middle. Warren is a good pass rusher and slightly bigger than Williams and Peppers, its not like he couldnt play DE in a 4-3 though. If you want something more along the scheme of the Giants and DE ends that rush like Osi then Warren wouldnt be your guy. But Warren would be more physical and stout against the run like Peppers etc.

Anyways we could pull off a 4-3 all we need to do is draft a MLB to upgrade Bruschi.

So you want to rely this year on a rookie to start at MLB...

And just who do you propose can fit the bill?

 

[cornhuskers_2002]

It would seem that there are people around who believe that the Patriots should switch to a 4-3 defense that has Warren, Wilfork, Dorsey (theoretically taken at #7), and Seymour as the Front 4 with Vrabel and Thomas as the OLBs. The claim is that it would be the best defensive line in the league. I thoroughly disagree and believe that a 4-3 with those 4 up front is a recipe for disaster.

I've tried to point out that in the 4-3, you'd actually end up with 3 of Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Dorsey and Green on the bench at any one time because DEs in the 4-3 have to be smaller and quicker than Seymour and Warren. Because of this, the Pats would be forced to move Vrabel and Thomas up to DE, weakening the LBs even more than they are. Also, I've tried to point out that the Pats do not, currently, have anyone capable of being the MLB. And have been ignored on this as well.

I'd appreciate either a link to previous 3-4 vs. 4-3 threads or other comments on this.

Nice job Einstein.

 

[DaBruinz]

yea about as stupid as having 6-6ish 290 lb Mario Williams and Julius Peppers on the field. Most of the elite DE's are -huge-. Warren is 6-5 300 lb he is about the same size as Williams and Peppers and could certainly play DE in the 4-3 hes a great pass rusher.

Peppers and Williams have tremedous explosion in comparison to Warren or Seymour. Its why they are able to run the 40 so quickly.

Sorry, Warren isn't that great of a pass rusher in comparison to Peppers or Williams. The SuperBowl showed that neither he nor Seymour have the explosion available to rush the passer effectively.

 

[BRiZ]

Peppers and Williams have tremedous explosion in comparison to Warren or Seymour. Its why they are able to run the 40 so quickly.

Sorry, Warren isn't that great of a pass rusher in comparison to Peppers or Williams. The SuperBowl showed that neither he nor Seymour have the explosion available to rush the passer effectively.

in comparison to Seymour yea, Seymour is a big lug, but Warren is quicker and a good passrusher especially if he was singled up with his man in a 4-3 and not in a 3-4. He would have around 10 sacks a season if he played DE in a 4-3. Your looking for the Osi, Jason Taylor speed type passrushing DE's and we wouldnt be able to translate well into that scheme i agree. But there are bigger more stout DE's like Peppers and Williams which Warren isnt that far off from and could play a similar style 4-3 if we wanted to. Just need a MLB.