Why the Pats won't move to the 4-3...

[DaBruinz]

It would seem that there are people around who believe that the Patriots should switch to a 4-3 defense that has Warren, Wilfork, Dorsey (theoretically taken at #7), and Seymour as the Front 4 with Vrabel and Thomas as the OLBs. The claim is that it would be the best defensive line in the league. I thoroughly disagree and believe that a 4-3 with those 4 up front is a recipe for disaster.

I've tried to point out that in the 4-3, you'd actually end up with 3 of Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Dorsey and Green on the bench at any one time because DEs in the 4-3 have to be smaller and quicker than Seymour and Warren. Because of this, the Pats would be forced to move Vrabel and Thomas up to DE, weakening the LBs even more than they are. Also, I've tried to point out that the Pats do not, currently, have anyone capable of being the MLB. And have been ignored on this as well.

I'd appreciate either a link to previous 3-4 vs. 4-3 threads or other comments on this.

 

[Afterlifemobile-86]

It would seem that there are people around who believe that the Patriots should switch to a 4-3 defense that has Warren, Wilfork, Dorsey (theoretically taken at #7), and Seymour as the Front 4 with Vrabel and Thomas as the OLBs. The claim is that it would be the best defensive line in the league. I thoroughly disagree and believe that a 4-3 with those 4 up front is a recipe for disaster.

I've tried to point out that in the 4-3, you'd actually end up with 3 of Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Dorsey and Green on the bench at any one time because DEs in the 4-3 have to be smaller and quicker than Seymour and Warren. Because of this, the Pats would be forced to move Vrabel and Thomas up to DE, weakening the LBs even more than they are. Also, I've tried to point out that the Pats do not, currently, have anyone capable of being the MLB. And have been ignored on this as well.

I'd appreciate either a link to previous 3-4 vs. 4-3 threads or other comments on this.

I don't know why anyone would want to see a 4-3. A 3-4 is such a better defensive system IMHO.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Although I think players like Seymour, Warren and Wilfork would acually be better in a 4-3, I don't see it happening. And what I mean by those three would be they would play DT in a 4-3. In this case, Warren or Seymour would see the pine.

 

[JackBauer]

Wilfork, at this point, would most definitely NOT be better off in a 4-3.

 

[BRiZ]

DE Warren
DT Wilfork
DT Seymour
DE Ellis

Ellis is a better passrusher than Dorsey imo he would fit better in the 4-3. I dont really see the issue Warren and Ellis could both get pressure on the QB and Wilfork and Seymour would clog the middle. Wilfork is surprisingly a good passrusher if you turn him loose too. We could play the 4-3 if we had to we play it occasionally already. Vrabel and Thomas at OLB we would just need to draft a young MLB to upgrade Bruschi. Not that im advocating doing this though.

 

[jbb9s]

Does anyone remember that game a few years back, possibly 2004, possibly a Sunday Night or Monday night game, where the Patriots defense played a 0-7 defense. No one was down and everyone just hovered off the line like a to-be blitzing linebacker. Thats was neat.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Jarvis Green would actually probably do pretty well in the 4-3. Back when Willie McGinest was here and lined up as a LB, couldn't you almost say that when he put his hand on the ground it was essentially a 4-3.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

It would seem that there are people around who believe that the Patriots should switch to a 4-3 defense that has Warren, Wilfork, Dorsey (theoretically taken at #7), and Seymour as the Front 4 with Vrabel and Thomas as the OLBs. The claim is that it would be the best defensive line in the league. I thoroughly disagree and believe that a 4-3 with those 4 up front is a recipe for disaster.

To me, it's not just the front 4. It also has as much to do with the big, slow LBs with AD being the exception. And though this is not a perfect example, recall the last Indy game - a game in which the Pats opened up and played a 43 for a great deal of the game with LB lineup of Rodney, Bruschi/Seau and Colvin. Granted this more resembles a big nickle than a true 43, but Addai had no problems getting through the four man line nor did the front four put more pressure on Manning than from their conventional base 34 set.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

the d-end are way too slow for a 4-3. they are so much better suited for 3-4 and taking up 2 blockers

 

[TripleOption]

Wilfork, at this point, would most definitely NOT be better off in a 4-3.

Wilfork would is a prototypical 1 technique. Seymour would play 3 tech along with Warren.

The DE's would be rough. Jarvis would be decent, although probably slow for a 4-3 One Gap system. Adalius would be OK, but the overall the Pats personnel have been picked for the 3-4.

 

[pats1]

Although I think players like Seymour, Warren and Wilfork would acually be better in a 4-3, I don't see it happening. And what I mean by those three would be they would play DT in a 4-3. In this case, Warren or Seymour would see the pine.

I don't think that assessment is accurate.

 

[unoriginal]

Given that Mike Wright and Le Kevin Smith have played on both kickoff and kickoff return, I think the Pats could find another 4-3 DE to go opposite Green, with Wilfork, Warren and Seymour rotating the tackle spots.

I think Wotan has it right, the linebackers are the concern for the 4-3.

It's not that unusual to see 4-3 DEs be upwards of 280-290 lbs. Used to be the norm until Dungy's Tampa 2 1-gap system took off and his coaching tree/system started defusing around the league.

 

[DaBruinz]

DE Warren
DT Wilfork
DT Seymour
DE Ellis

Ellis is a better passrusher than Dorsey imo he would fit better in the 4-3. I dont really see the issue Warren and Ellis could both get pressure on the QB and Wilfork and Seymour would clog the middle. Wilfork is surprisingly a good passrusher if you turn him loose too. We could play the 4-3 if we had to we play it occasionally already. Vrabel and Thomas at OLB we would just need to draft a young MLB to upgrade Bruschi. Not that im advocating doing this though.

Do you realize how STUPID it would be for the Pats to have two 310 lb DEs on the field? They wouldn't have much luck putting pressure on the Passer and even the most mediocre QBs would have a field day on the Pats.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think that assessment is accurate.

Pats 1 -
Could you elaborate? What wasn't accurate in his assessment? The fact that Warren, Wilfork and Seymour would be better in the 4-3 or that they'd be DTs in the 4-3?

 

[DaBruinz]

Given that Mike Wright and Le Kevin Smith have played on both kickoff and kickoff return, I think the Pats could find another 4-3 DE to go opposite Green, with Wilfork, Warren and Seymour rotating the tackle spots.

I think Wotan has it right, the linebackers are the concern for the 4-3.

It's not that unusual to see 4-3 DEs be upwards of 280-290 lbs. Used to be the norm until Dungy's Tampa 2 1-gap system took off and his coaching tree/system started defusing around the league.

Could you name some of them please? I don't remember ANY 4-3 Defensive ends being in the 290 range. I remember the TOP being about 280 and that was when McGinest was playing there.

What is most beneficial to the Pats? Having one of their top 3 D-linemen on the bench at any point in time or having all 3 on the field?

 

[TripleOption]

Given that Mike Wright and Le Kevin Smith have played on both kickoff and kickoff return, I think the Pats could find another 4-3 DE to go opposite Green, with Wilfork, Warren and Seymour rotating the tackle spots.

I think Wotan has it right, the linebackers are the concern for the 4-3.

It's not that unusual to see 4-3 DEs be upwards of 280-290 lbs. Used to be the norm until Dungy's Tampa 2 1-gap system took off and his coaching tree/system started defusing around the league.

Hardly optimal in a pass happy league like the NFL.

Super quick, lighter DE's like Osi or Jason Taylor are more the norm these days.

 

[Joker]

No...how STUPID would the Pats have to be?...in fact...why did you even put up this thread? to eventually point out the Pats are STUPID and YOU are some kind of NFL defensive demi-God? that somehow the Patriots are poised to make some kind of defensive adjustment that would allow mediocre QB's to tear them apart?

this is just the sort of incredible chicken little crap that has infested these threads since the Super Bowl loss.

Newsflash...BB runs a base 3/4 defense...END OF FREAKIN' STORY....no "what if!!??!!"...no ands ...no buts. He is NOT going to do anything that is STUPID so YOU can say "See? AHA!!! It was I that told you so!!!"

 

[Deus Irae]

No...how STUPID would the Pats have to be?...in fact...why did you even put up this thread? to eventually point out the Pats are STUPID and YOU are some kind of NFL defensive demi-God? that somehow the Patriots are poised to make some kind of defensive adjustment that would allow mediocre QB's to tear them apart?

this is just the sort of incredible chicken little crap that has infested these threads since the Super Bowl loss.

Newsflash...BB runs a base 3/4 defense...END OF FREAKIN' STORY....no "what if!!??!!"...no ands ...no buts. He is NOT going to do anything that is STUPID so YOU can say "See? AHA!!! It was I that told you so!!!"

It's the offseason.... Is this thread really worse than wondering about arm wrestling matches? At this point, "Boxers or Briefs?" would be a thread upgrade to some of the garbage that's been posted.

 

[Joker]

yeah...point taken...I'm just getting sick of all this "I KNOW more than BB and the Patriots do!!!" gagfest that has been going on since early February...the draft can't get here quick enough. When the pads go on and the hitting starts again, I think we'll finally be able to stop beating this poor, battered , blood spot in the street that used to be the horse of 2007 past.

 

[DaBruinz]

No...how STUPID would the Pats have to be?...in fact...why did you even put up this thread? to eventually point out the Pats are STUPID and YOU are some kind of NFL defensive demi-God? that somehow the Patriots are poised to make some kind of defensive adjustment that would allow mediocre QB's to tear them apart?

this is just the sort of incredible chicken little crap that has infested these threads since the Super Bowl loss.

Newsflash...BB runs a base 3/4 defense...END OF FREAKIN' STORY....no "what if!!??!!"...no ands ...no buts. He is NOT going to do anything that is STUPID so YOU can say "See? AHA!!! It was I that told you so!!!"

Joker-
Wow. Nothing like being totally STUPID and over-reacting and being a jack-ass. NOTHING I said implicated that the Pats WOULD got to a 4-3. In fact, I have been saying it wouldn't happen and using it as reasoning for why they won't draft either Ellis or Dorsey.

The point was to show other people who DO think that the Pats might go to a 4-3 how flawed their logic is. So, instead of being part of the problem by cluttering up the thread with garbage, how about you be part of the solution and support the basis of the thread. Which is that the Pats will not move to a 4-3 on a full time basis.