Why the love affair with Julius Peppers?

[BradyFTW!]

The primary reason why Peppers would be brought in is to get after the QB creating ideal matchups for the Pats in the process. And he would be able to do this as few in the league could do. Whatever else he can or can't do is immaterial.

Immaterial? BB prizes versatility above all else because it creates unpredictability. If teams know that one of our OLBs can't cover, that removes a huge element of uncertainty, which in turn diminishes Belichick's ability to out-scheme the opposing coaches. Is it worth it to get Peppers, regardless of this fact? You could certainly make that argument. It's definitely not immaterial though.

 

[letekro]

?

Vrabel was good in coverage. I don't care how athletic a guy is; if he's been playing 4-3 DE his entire career, he isn't going to learn how to cover as a linebacker overnight.

Peppers, like Vrabel or McGinest, isn't going to be chasing backs and tight ends over the middle - his coverage responsibility will be dropping off into a particular zone. Just like Vrabel and McG, his size and long arms should make him effective in this role.

 

[JoeShmoe]

The primary reason why Peppers would be brought in is to get after the QB creating ideal matchups for the Pats in the process. And he would be able to do this as few in the league could do. Whatever else he can or can't do is immaterial.

I agree. A few guys in the league can do it all. He is probably one of them. Too much is made of fitting squarely into once scheme IMO - he's the sort of athlete who could line up anywhere in the front 7 and do a job

If he's willing to come for sensible money then we would be plain daft to go for a rookie like Barwin and should happily give up a few picks. It was only two weeks ago everyone and his dog on this board were furious we only got a 2nd for Cassel

Can you imagine the schemes Bill would come up with up with Peppers in the front 7? Forget 3-4 or whatever, there would be so many looks it would be frightening

 

[mgcolby]

Is anyone able to provide a link that quotes Peppers or his agent naming a price range for a new contract?

I can't find one, yet a lot of folks on here act as though he will demand 17 million a year.

 

[Reaper]

I think he wouldnt just come in an amaze everybody in the beginning but he wouldn't dissapoint us either and in time he would make the transition.

 

[bunzoburns]

It is my theory that the fans who think that Peppers will make a smooth transition to OLB are the same fans who thought that Ben Watson could play wide receiver because he has good straight line speed….haha

 

[N.Eman]

anybody else got a feeling this will be a suprise trade during the draft ala Moss? All the talk is gettin me psyched.

 

[supafly]

Is anyone able to provide a link that quotes Peppers or his agent naming a price range for a new contract?

I can't find one, yet a lot of folks on here act as though he will demand 17 million a year.

I don't think he has talked much about it, but what do you feel he would want? What would you do if you felt that you were one of the elite defensive players in the league? Do you think he'll want to settle for LESS money when he would come here and be ever more versatile? He would obviously assume that he could either

1.Make 17 million this yr under the cap / over 20 million if they did it again next yr

2.Sign some sort of contract between the likes of Freeny (72 million) and Haynesworth (100 million)--although they'll both make abt 12 mill per yr due to Haynesworth's first 4 yrs

3.The lowest he would possibly go would be, what, maybe 10 million per? I would have no idea why, when there are DB's and LB's making that much. He and his agent would certainly demand that, unless he had the weakest, dumbest agent in the world. He is certainly in the range of Wilfork, or Seymour, if not more. We have enough problems with those two

If I am an elite player who would be showcasing even more of my talents by switching to a 3-4 OLB, I would think I am at the very least, worth as much as I've been getting. What do you think he's going to do? Sign a 1-2 yr "prove it" deal like Moss? What does he have to prove?

 

[mgcolby]

I don't think he has talked much about it, but what do you feel he would want? What would you do if you felt that you were one of the elite defensive players in the league? Do you think he'll want to settle for LESS money when he would come here and be ever more versatile? He would obviously assume that he could either

1.Make 17 million this yr under the cap / over 20 million if they did it again next yr

2.Sign some sort of contract between the likes of Freeny (72 million) and Haynesworth (100 million)--although they'll both make abt 12 mill per yr due to Haynesworth's first 4 yrs

3.The lowest he would possibly go would be, what, maybe 10 million per? I would have no idea why, when there are DB's and LB's making that much. He and his agent would certainly demand that, unless he had the weakest, dumbest agent in the world. He is certainly in the range of Wilfork, or Seymour, if not more. We have enough problems with those two

If I am an elite player who would be showcasing even more of my talents by switching to a 3-4 OLB, I would think I am at the very least, worth as much as I've been getting. What do you think he's going to do? Sign a 1-2 yr "prove it" deal like Moss? What does he have to prove?

It's all assumption and your post just highlighted it. We don't know what he would want, but by saying he wants to be an OLB in 3-4 changes the dynamics of "what he is worth". As a 4-3 end he could look at Freeney money, but as an OLB it is doubtfull. Pace signed a 6 year 42 million deal with 22 guaranteed and AD signed a 5 year 34 million deal with 22 million dished out in the first 2 years. Both of them have played OLB in a 3-4 and he hasn't. By him publicly stating he wants to be an OLB in a 3-4 he put himself in a different pay bracket.

Remember Terrell Suggs is fighting this battle in Baltimore, he is a 3-4 OLB but he claims that his "natural" position is DE and should be paid like one.

The franchise tag for LB's is 8.3 million, if his agent can get 10+ million a year from a 3-4 team, then I would think his agent is pretty smart.

I am not aware of any LB making over 10 million per year other than Suggs. I'm not saying there isn't, just that I am not aware of any.

 

[supafly]

OK, that's why the forum is littered with threads explaining why we wouldn't want to sacrifice our "team" concept by gambling everything on a player who is high priced and would have to change to a new position, and a new system.

I am sure that you are correct in YOUR assumtion--that all of a sudden one of the best defensive players in the league would want half the money he could get. Aren't you making an assumption yourself? So it would come down to who's assumption is closer.

And by the way, the Ravens gave an old and over the hill Ray Lewis 8 million per year. Seattle's LeRoy Hill is scheduled to make almost 9 million this yr. So yes, I and many others believe that someone like Peppers or Suggs will demand more money as a LB. Your comparison to AD's contract of 7 million / per was 2 years ago, as the market value for LB's has increased. Also I am sure that he and his agent would argue that He has been a DE and deserves DE money. And don't give me the argument about him wanting a ring, as his current team held the #2 seed last yr.

The market has been set, and only a fool would believe that he'll take roughly half of the money, or whatever YOU are ASSUMING

 

[supafly]

I guess we'll have to see who's assumption is closer

YOURS: that one of the elite players in the league will suddenly shock the world by turning down lots of money, when he's currently due 17 million this yr

MINE: that Peppers will maybe take roughly 10-12 million / per at best

I guess it's a game of assumptions

 

[mgcolby]

OK, that's why the forum is littered with threads explaining why we wouldn't want to sacrifice our "team" concept by gambling everything on a player who is high priced and would have to change to a new position, and a new system.

I am sure that you are correct in YOUR assumtion--that all of a sudden one of the best defensive players in the league would want half the money he could get. Aren't you making an assumption yourself? So it would come down to who's assumption is closer.

That is laughable, the only place he is getting 17 million is in Carolina because of the Tag rule. No other team is going to give him 17 million, end of discussion.

And by the way, the Ravens gave an old and over the hill Ray Lewis 8 million per year. So yes, I and many others believe that someone like Peppers or Suggs will demand more money as a LB. Your comparison to AD's contract of 7 million / per was 2 years ago, as the market value for LB's has increased. Also I am sure that he and his agent would argue that He has been a DE and deserves DE money. And don't give me the argument about him wanting a ring, as his current team held the #2 seed last yr.

Old and over the hill Ray Lewis? Did you actually watch any Ravens games last year? He could have been the defensive player of the year last year. But he won't be a DE in a 3-4 and this is due to nothing other than his own desire. So at that point he no longer a DE, so he doesn't warrant DE money from a 3-4 team. He could easily make that argument with a 4-3 team to include the one he currently plays for, who would probably be happy to pay him 4-3 DE money. I don't know the particulars of their cap position, especially after the Gross signing, but considering they are on the hook for 17 mill if he plays under the tag - one would think they would be happy to give him a long term deal.

The market has been set, and only a fool would believe that he'll take roughly half of the money, or whatever YOU are ASSUMING

Do you always have to get worked up? Only a fool would pretend to know what I think he is worth, cause I never stated what I thought he would sign for. I think the 10 million range is accurate.

 

[mgcolby]

I guess we'll have to see who's assumption is closer

YOURS: that one of the elite players in the league will suddenly shock the world by turning down lots of money, when he's currently due 17 million this yr

MINE: that Peppers will maybe take roughly 10-12 million / per at best

I guess it's a game of assumptions

So you give me sh!t about pointing out two of the biggest contracts recently signed by OLB's and how Peppers will not take half the money he can make in Carolina, blah blah blah. Then you toss out an ignorant statement about Lewis, implying that he isn't productive any more and how he is getting 8 Million per year.

Only to throw a pay range of 10-12 million. You do realize the bottom end of your range is close to half...right? I mean that is like a 42% pay cut instead of 50%.

Great point.

 

[supafly]

That is laughable, the only place he is getting 17 million is in Carolina because of the Tag rule. No other team is going to give him 17 million, end of discussion.


Old and over the hill Ray Lewis? Did you actually watch any Ravens games last year? He could have been the defensive player of the year last year.


Do you always have to get worked up? Only a fool would pretend to know what I think he is worth, cause I never stated what I thought he would sign for. I think the 10 million range is accurate.

I am not getting worked up, only pointing out that I suppose we are both making assumptions. Is that not the truth? I was merely pointing out a fact. It will be interesting to see what happens, as I could see us making a run maybe next yr, per the CBA outcome. When LeRoy Hill and an older Ray Lewis are making between 8-9 million, I am merely stating that a player such as Julius Peppers would demand a couple million more. And that is also assuming he's ready to take such a dramatic pay cut to be a LB. At best, it would be a Suggs situation, at worst he would be in the 12 million DE range

 

[mgcolby]

I am not getting worked up, only pointing out that I suppose we are both making assumptions. Is that not the truth? I was merely pointing out a fact. It will be interesting to see what happens, as I could see us making a run maybe next yr, per the CBA outcome

It came across as antagonistic. I apologize if I misread it.

 

[Synovia]

When LeRoy Hill and an older Ray Lewis are making between 8-9 million, I am merely stating that a player such as Julius Peppers would demand a couple million more.

The problem with that, is the huge assumption that Julius Peppers can actually play linebacker. he's a risk. Suggs is not. The best case scenario for Peppers as a LB, is Suggs, or Harrison, and thats 8M a year.

 

[supafly]

So you give me sh!t about pointing out two of the biggest contracts recently signed by OLB's and how Peppers will not take half the money he can make in Carolina, blah blah blah. Then you toss out an ignorant statement about Lewis, implying that he isn't productive any more and how he is getting 8 Million per year.

Only to throw a pay range of 10-12 million. You do realize the bottom end of your range is close to half...right? I mean that is like a 42% pay cut instead of 50%.

Great point.

At this point, all I can ASSUME is that you like to argue.

I was merely stating (try this one more time) that your assumption is that he will go from wanting to be one of the higher paid players in the league to taking HALF the money. My assumption is that he would be bringing more to the table by proving his value in versatility through being able to play up on the line, and also switching to OLB. Like I said, it would have to be close to the Suggs situation, and probably then he would still want a little more money.

How does a player take LESS money by proving that he could be used in many different formations, thus making him MORE versatile

 

[mgcolby]

I am not getting worked up, only pointing out that I suppose we are both making assumptions. Is that not the truth? I was merely pointing out a fact. It will be interesting to see what happens, as I could see us making a run maybe next yr, per the CBA outcome. When LeRoy Hill and an older Ray Lewis are making between 8-9 million, I am merely stating that a player such as Julius Peppers would demand a couple million more. And that is also assuming he's ready to take such a dramatic pay cut to be a LB. At best, it would be a Suggs situation, at worst he would be in the 12 million DE range

Suggs could potentially change the pay range of OLB/LB if and when he signs a long term deal, as could Ware. But unlike Peppers they played the position (For the record I think he will be able to make the transition). Now, I obviously don't know what BB would value him at especially with his versatility, but I can't imagine him getting more money than Seymour or Wilfork. It is harder IMO, to find a true NT and 3-4 end than it is to find a pass rushing OLB. Hell, I think it is easier to find 4-3 end than it is to find the positions I listed above.

I'm not taking anything away from Peppers as I think he is arguably a top 5 defensive player in the league.

 

[supafly]

The problem with that, is the huge assumption that Julius Peppers can actually play linebacker. he's a risk. Suggs is not. The best case scenario for Peppers as a LB, is Suggs, or Harrison, and thats 8M a year.

Then he would indeed, be taking a MAJOR pay cut. That is basically the whole reason I don't see it getting done. He would at the very least, want a deal such as Suggs which proves he is more than just a DE, and could be placed in many versatile packages as an OLB. It would have to fall somewhere in the middle of what he would expect as a high priced DE, or a OLB. That is where I came up with the 10-12 mill / per range

 

[supafly]

Suggs could potentially change the pay range of OLB/LB if and when he signs a long term deal, as could Ware. But unlike Peppers they played the position (For the record I think he will be able to make the transition). Now, I obviously don't know what BB would value him at especially with his versatility, but I can't imagine him getting more money than Seymour or Wilfork. It is harder IMO, to find a true NT and 3-4 end than it is to find a pass rushing OLB. Hell, I think it is easier to find 4-3 end than it is to find the positions I listed above.

I'm not taking anything away from Peppers as I think he is arguably a top 5 defensive player in the league.

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. What the problem is however, is what it would do to the players who have given their 'all' or best on our team over the past few yrs. How do you justify giving an outside player, who will be a gamble, as much if not more--than the important players who we need to sign and appreciate now? If next yrs salary cap does not have a ceiling then maybe we could do all of this then. I have my doubts as to how we could pull off a higher priced contract, (you and I are arguing over how much that contract would be, but the fact is it would be higher priced) and still take care of our own--without changing the face of the team. After all, we have excelled as a team, not giving in to one-player deals