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Why the emphasis on fullbacks?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Captain Cliche, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. Captain Cliche

    Captain Cliche Rookie

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    They sure seem to be looking hard at that position.

    Just wondering...maybe Maroney runs better with a lead blocker?
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Hopefully they're there for scout teams for opponents - I hate FB and one is more than enough for me.
  3. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    The Patriots like to have versatile FB's like Centers.

    Evans is good but I bet they think they can get better.

    Me personally? I think Evans has earned a spot on this team.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm OK with Evans - because despite my last post I agree there's (occasional) times for a FB - but I don't like any additional roster spots being taken for a FB (barring injury).
  5. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan Rookie

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    I have no issues with a fullback if there is proof that said runner works best with a lead blocker. I couldn't care less about just having one for the same of having one. However, I prefer guys who can also carry the ball from time to time and can catch out of the backfield. Sam Gash is one of my all time favorite Patriots because he could do the above. He was not as versatile as a Larry Centers but he was a better pure "fullback" than Centers was.
  6. Number Cruncher

    Number Cruncher PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sam Gash, part of this is yours......
  7. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    With Seymour being on the PUP and all.......
  8. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    With the transition to zone blocking comes the transition to a blocking-oriented fullback.

    Zone blocking can't allow penetration into the backfield, and a lead fullback can help erase a lot of mistakes up front. Sometimes its too much to expect those five guys up front to work perfectly on every play.

    You can't wham block with a tight end because that's a trap block, which is man blocking.
  9. FarScapeR

    FarScapeR Rookie

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    "Wham" blocking? Woosh! Over my head. Explain, pls.
  10. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    That was the new wrinkle last year where a tight end, usually coming out of the wingback/H-back slot, would head inside and trap a defensive tackle. Graham was the usual suspect.

    In the Chargers game San Diego's D-line consistantly blew up that play. It's hard to trap a 350lbs DT like Jamal Williams with a 260lbs tight end if the guy's looking for it.
  11. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    I liked Sam Gash and Kevin Turner back in the day. The only problem are the only guys comparable to them in their primes are Lorenzo Neal and Brian Leonard respectively. And neither is getting cut anytime soon.
  12. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Was Gash out hurt in the SB against the Packers? I seem to remember he being out and thinking that really hurt the Pats's chances.
  13. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    yes..he was on IR....and in teh city hall rally before the team went to NO when he was introduxed, he got the largest applause...
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Yes - this is BB looking for additional blocking help... Graham wasn't worth the money but we all recognize his value as an excellent blocker... it's wise to bring in/try out/keep a quality blocker whether they be TE or FB, especially given Kyle Brady's pre-season health issues
  15. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rookie

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    Many teams combine man and zone. You can run a zone trap, zone iso, etc.

    The FB explosion may be due to the lack of quality, healthy TE's. Instead of being in double TE, one back, you may see much more single TE, motioning FB (Strong/Weak, Wing, etc...)
  16. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rookie

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    The Pats have been Wham blocking for years, they ran it with Antowain Smith under Weiss.
  17. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'd actually like to take a look-see at Jason Snelling, rookie cut by Atlanta this week. He's an all-around fullback, meaning he can catch the ball well and give you 5-8 carries a game, as well as block....kind of what Zack Crockett did for Oakland or Cory Schlesinger for Detroit. I don't think anybody's picked him up yet. I'd be thrilled if the Patriots picked him up and were able to stash him on IR or the Practice Squad.
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We passed on Leonard. I don't think the FO valued him as highly as those here. I believe that we need a short yeard back.

  19. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Interesting you mention FBs and zone blocking ... this could be the major reason Kyle Johnson was brought in.

    Maybe Evans is having trouble picking up the ZB schemes (?)
  20. patsfan209

    patsfan209 Rookie

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    Gash was on IR at the time of the SB. I still remember he got injured during the game vs. the Jets at Foxboro (Week 15).
  21. MetalBleachers

    MetalBleachers Rookie

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    Seconded. had a productive preseason, FWIW: http://www.nfl.com/players/jasonsnelling/gamelogs?id=SNE717004

    I liked Snelling coming out of UVA. Right now, it's Evans, but I think that, with some development, Snelling could become an all-around (rushing, blocking, pass-catching) FB for the Pats, maybe in two seasons' time.
  22. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers Rookie

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    I think the re-emergence of the fullback for the Patriots just reflects Belichick's approach of staying one step ahead of the coaching herd. I think most NFL defenses don't or can't properly handle a versatile fullback.

    If you recall the Saints-Cowboys game of last year, Saints coach Sean Payton used a seldom-heard-from fullback named John Karney (sp?) to score something like 4 touchdowns in that game. I think those 4 touchdowns were more than Karney had ever scored in his career.

    The point? Payton was Parcell's former assistant, and he knew that a weakness of Parcell's defense was that it (apparently) didn't account for a fullback catching passes out of the backfield. Belichick must see the same thing elsewhere around the league.

    Will it last? Of course not -- teams will adapt to the versatile FB, and hopefully by then Belichick is onto the next gee-whiz idea, like a speedy TE who can cause mismatches (Watson), or an athletic guard who can paste defenders at the next level (Neal), or a WR with incredible leaping ability who can go over the top of a corner (Moss). Obviously the leaping WR isn't a new idea, but like fashion, sometimes what's old becomes new again! :D
  23. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    That's why BB invested a fourth in a guy, Garret Mills, without a definable position; its why he was so upset with the Viking's Childress. Mills needed another year of grooming, to learn the duties required of a Larry Centers II.

    The Vikes don't have the kind of team that will use his talents, nor do they have the time to develop them, so I predict that he'll be back on the FA lists before long.
  24. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dunno; if you think of Mills not as a TE or a FB, but as a "receiver" the Vikings' roster seems to create an opportunity for him as a slot receiver/H-back guy who can work in traffic. With a young West Coast Offense QB, a player like Mills could be a life saver - literally - consider him a smaller, less expensive version of Wiggins, or a replacement for Tony Richardson.

    FB/TE/WRs listed on Vikings roster:
    Code:
    83	Dugan, Jeff	       FB	6'4"	258	4/8/1981	4	Maryland
    38	Tahi, Naufahu	       FB	6'0"	254	10/30/1981	2	Brigham Young
    49	Richardson, Tony	FB	6'1"	238	12/17/1971	13	Auburn
    45	Mills, Garrett	TE	6'1"	235	10/12/1983	2	Tulsa
    40	Kleinsasser, Jimmy	TE	6'3"	272	1/31/1977	9	North Dakota
    81	Shiancoe, Visanthe	TE	6'4"	250	6/18/1980	5	Morgan State
    82	Williamson, Troy	WR	6'1"	203	4/30/1982	3	South Carolina
    89	Ferguson, Robert	WR	6'1"	219	12/17/1979	7	Texas A&M
    19	Wade, Bobby	       WR	5'10"	186	2/25/1981	5	Arizona
    14	Allison, Aundrae	WR	6'0"	198	4/29/1986	0	East Carolina
    18	Rice, Sidney	       WR	6'4"	202	9/1/1986	0	South Carolina
  25. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Here's a wham block, lightly illustrated:

    [​IMG]

    This play calls for a wham block from Watson on the 1-tech tackle, Rien Long. This frees up Koppen to get the Sam linebacker.

    [​IMG]


    Here's the blocking scheme illustrated. As often happens with the Pats, Light is asked to get the Mike linebacker, while Mankins blocks the end. Having an ex-LT as your LG is handy.

    The wham block is supposed to go outside-in, i.e. Watson should catch Long's left shoulder and drive him up the screen. What ends up happening is Long detects the trap and hugs Neal's side, Watson passes him and ends up blocking Long inside out, towards the camera. Needless to say the play is stopped for a loss.

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