Why so little concern at RB?

[pherein]

Pierre Thomas would be a great fit on this team, if he could only stay healthy.

2 things about that, If I can be so bold. RB's are like european cars , if you don't run them they break down. I say that because we use our RB same as we use our WR's. No one is getting a 1000 yards and everyone is running cold. I think its a disadvantage for a RB or WR to play on the saints.

On the Jets a RB gets to warm up with 15 hits, then figure it out. On the Saints Thomas or Bush is asked to run 1 play and sit out 5-15, never getting a rhythm.

Thomas is not the fastest RB, but what he has is Guts, and sight. Most backs don't have guts, they cant make the big play, ever. Sight, you run in a pack and cant see anything it takes about 2 seconds, the best a RB has is a few 1/10 of a second moves. You never see it you have to feel it, you either have it or you dont, thomas has that, watch his footage.

Sight is the most underrated thing in football when looking at RB's. I dont care if you run 2.0 in the 40, if you cant "move without thinking" and "see with out knowing", your dead. Bush is a specimen, in all was ways better than Thomas physically, but Bush has very little sight. Thomas knows instinctively were to go were Bush gets confused.

Thomas might be more healthy running all the time rather than running 15x a game. I know that seems silly, but there is a logic to it.
Understand, by no means do I want Thomas in N.E., I think hes one of the best RB in the NFL. On a pure run team like the Ravens he would do 1200-1600 a year. It would be a mistake for us to let him go.

 

[Froob]

What does Pierre Thomas do? I was hoping for Ricky Williams or John Kuhn.
Ok just read your summary there. Interesting. They are still interested in signing him though after BGJE and Woodhead broke out?

 

[Froob]

Woah just watched some highlights of him. He's got wheels.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I think burning one of our top 4 draft picks on a back-up RB seems like a bad idea. We've got a lot of other needs to fill.

Considering 4 of the top 10 rushers this season (and 8 of the top 15) were drafted after the first 2 rounds, I think it's an area we can address without burning a 1st or 2nd rounder. It would be good to get another quality guy there, but not with such a high pick.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think burning one of our top 4 draft picks on a back-up RB seems like a bad idea. We've got a lot of other needs to fill.

Considering 4 of the top 10 rushers this season (and 8 of the top 15) were drafted after the first 2 rounds, I think it's an area we can address without burning a 1st or 2nd rounder. It would be good to get another quality guy there, but not with such a high pick.

It's a bad idea if the RB will not be used in the flow of the game and not used when they are up 21 points.

If this team commits to running the ball in the playoffs, then it is worth the pick.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Team has too many needs right now for RB depth to be on the list of priorities. I could be wrong, but I don't see anything higher than a mid rounder spent on a RB.

Maybe (hopefully) in 2012 the team will be in a position to spend a 1st or 2nd on a stud (by pick or by trade like Dillon) but for this year we still need to address OL and DE/OLB before worry anything about the backfield.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Team has too many needs right now for RB depth to be on the list of priorities. I could be wrong, but I don't see anything higher than a mid rounder spent on a RB.

Maybe (hopefully) in 2012 the team will be in a position to spend a 1st or 2nd on a stud (by pick or by trade like Dillon) but for this year we still need to address OL and DE/OLB before worry anything about the backfield.

Agreed.

Defense, defense, defense. 3rd down D and Red Zone D. OLB, DT/DE, RG, C

 

[patsinthesnow]

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Everyone look at this list. What the hell is a "spectacular RB". Based on that list I only see two that played that way last year. Charles and Foster.

People like saying Mendenhall as if he's a stud. 3.9 YPC? Ok.

There is 32 teams in the NFL. BJGE was 16th in rushing yards, 2nd in TDs, had 0 fumbles, and up there with everyone in YPC. He is what you want as a starting RB.

Example: Peyton Hillis had the same exact YPC as BJGE, 2 fewer rushing TDs, and 8 MORE fumbles.

I'm sick of this 1st round rb stuff and it finally got to me. BJGE will be the starting RB in 2011.

 

[JMarr]

We're not going to find the next Adrian Peterson, and I doubt BB is really looking for him. All we need is a good compliment to BJGE who can break the big one, as part of a 1-2 punch. I agree we should be able to find someone in the later rounds.

Ideally, Woodhead would take over Faulk's role strictly as a 3rd down/depth guy, but I don't know if he's good enough in pass protection to do that.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

It's a bad idea if the RB will not be used in the flow of the game and not used when they are up 21 points.

If this team commits to running the ball in the playoffs, then it is worth the pick.

I agree that we need another guy to help carry the load, just not sure one of the top 4 picks is the way to go. I'd like to see those 4 address DL, OL, and OLB, and I wouldn't mind multiple picks on either line.

We should be able to snag a good complementary RB with one of our 3rds or 4th.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think BJGE and Woodhead were fantastic for us last season and will be important parts of this team going forward. However, I see us being one injury away from being totally screwed at the position. We need someone better than Taylor and Morris. (though I wouldn't mind having Morris back for STs and spot duty)

Free agency could cure this problem, allowing us to focus on other areas in the draft. If it doesn't though, I don't have a problem with us using a 1st or 2nd on the position. Again, BJGE and Woodhead did great but I don't think it's a position that can't be upgraded.

I join you on this (we're obviously in the minority). Right now, the Pats don't have a game changer at RB, around whom opponents have to plan. As Brady enters the final years of his prime and as injuries take their toll on him, I think we need that kind of running game.

 

[Titanium Coate Hanger]

2010 NFL Rushing Leaders
NAME TEAM ATT YARDS AVG LONG TD
Arian Foster Houston 327 1616 4.9 74 16
Jamaal Charles Kansas City 230 1467 6.4 80 5
Michael Turner Atlanta 334 1371 4.1 55 12
Chris Johnson Tennessee 316 1364 4.3 76 11
Maurice Jones-Drew Jacksonville 299 1324 4.4 37 5
Adrian Peterson Minnesota 283 1298 4.6 80 12
Rashard Mendenhall Pittsburgh 324 1273 3.9 50 13
Steven Jackson St. Louis 330 1241 3.8 42 6
Ahmad Bradshaw N.Y. Giants 276 1235 4.5 48 8
Ray Rice Baltimore 307 1220 4.0 50 5
Peyton Hillis Cleveland 270 1177 4.4 48 11
Darren McFadden Oakland 223 1157 5.2 57 7
Cedric Benson Cincinnati 321 1111 3.5 26 7
LeSean McCoy Philadelphia 207 1080 5.2 62 7
Matt Forte Chicago 237 1069 4.5 68 6
BenJarvus Green-Ellis New England 229 1008 4.4 33 13
LeGarrette Blount Tampa Bay 201 1007 5.0 53 6
Fred Jackson Buffalo 222 927 4.2 39 5
LaDainian Tomlinson N.Y. Jets 219 914 4.2 31 6
Thomas Jones Kansas City 245 896 3.7 70 6
Frank Gore San Francisco 203 853 4.2 64 3
Brandon Jacobs N.Y. Giants 147 823 5.6 73 9
Felix Jones Dallas 185 800 4.3 34 1
Knowshon Moreno Denver 182 779 4.3 35 5
Jonathan Stewart Carolina 178 770 4.3 48 2
Shonn Greene N.Y. Jets 185 766 4.1 23 2
Ryan Torain Washington 164 742 4.5 54 4
Tim Hightower Arizona 153 736 4.8 80 5
Mike Tolbert San Diego 182 735 4.0 36 11
Chris Ivory New Orleans 137 716 5.2 55 5
Brandon Jackson Green Bay 190 703 3.7 71 3


Foster, Ivory, Tolbert, GreenEllis, Fred Jackson, Blount - Undrafted Free Agent
Johnson, Peterson, Steven Jackson, Moreno, Felix Jones, McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Tomlinson, Benson - 1st round pick
Jones Drew, Rice, Brandon Jackson, Greene, McCoy, Forte - 2nd round pick
Charles, Gore - 3rd round draft pick
Jacobs - 4th round draft pick
Turner, Hightower, Torain - 5th round draft pick
Bradshaw, Hillis, Thomas Jones - 7th round draft pick

This doesn't consider, since 2005, former first round picks Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Reggie Bush, Maroney, Joseph Addai, Marshawn Lynch, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells and the book is still out on Jahvid Best, CJ Spiller and Ryan Matthews.

Just on the eyeball test, the truly elite backs, with a decent washout rate, were picked up in the 1st round, but there was plenty of serviceable and very good in other rounds or even not drafted at all.

IMHO, the evidence suggests that Belichick should care, but maybe not 1st round draft pick care.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

BJGE had a nice season, but the majority of his production wasnt 'outcome dictating' production. He had 623 of his 1008 yards in the last 8 games, averaging 4.6 and this was while we threw to take big leads, sprinkled in some runs then ran with a lead. 343 of them were in the 4 of the final 5 games where we blew out the opponent.

That isnt to belittle his season, but to say that the numbers were nice but they weren't attained by saying here we come to establish the run and open up the pass.

Frankly, I think we need to be able to do that effectively more than anything else going forward, because we simply cannot win a whole bunch of games creating a pattern telling opponents to stay up all night to come up with the a make or break gameplan to take Brady away, because good teams will do it often enough to F-up our playoff run.

We need to be able to run it 40 times if teams want to take away Brady, and win, and moreover we need to have defenses know they will die a slow death if they let us run 40 times, making them defend everything and not only Brady.

I think BJGE had a nice season, and we could go 14-2 again running the same offense and having him gain 1000 as an afterthought, but we will limp into the playoffs, ready to face teams that care only about taking a shot at eliminating Brady.

100% agree. We need a running game and a back around whom opponents have to game plan and who keeps them up at night. Right now, only Brady ("only Brady" how ridiculous that sounds!) commands that attention.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

2010 NFL Rushing Leaders
NAME TEAM ATT YARDS AVG LONG TD
Arian Foster Houston 327 1616 4.9 74 16
Jamaal Charles Kansas City 230 1467 6.4 80 5
Michael Turner Atlanta 334 1371 4.1 55 12
Chris Johnson Tennessee 316 1364 4.3 76 11
Maurice Jones-Drew Jacksonville 299 1324 4.4 37 5
Adrian Peterson Minnesota 283 1298 4.6 80 12
Rashard Mendenhall Pittsburgh 324 1273 3.9 50 13
Steven Jackson St. Louis 330 1241 3.8 42 6
Ahmad Bradshaw N.Y. Giants 276 1235 4.5 48 8
Ray Rice Baltimore 307 1220 4.0 50 5
Peyton Hillis Cleveland 270 1177 4.4 48 11
Darren McFadden Oakland 223 1157 5.2 57 7
Cedric Benson Cincinnati 321 1111 3.5 26 7
LeSean McCoy Philadelphia 207 1080 5.2 62 7
Matt Forte Chicago 237 1069 4.5 68 6
BenJarvus Green-Ellis New England 229 1008 4.4 33 13
LeGarrette Blount Tampa Bay 201 1007 5.0 53 6
Fred Jackson Buffalo 222 927 4.2 39 5
LaDainian Tomlinson N.Y. Jets 219 914 4.2 31 6
Thomas Jones Kansas City 245 896 3.7 70 6
Frank Gore San Francisco 203 853 4.2 64 3
Brandon Jacobs N.Y. Giants 147 823 5.6 73 9
Felix Jones Dallas 185 800 4.3 34 1
Knowshon Moreno Denver 182 779 4.3 35 5
Jonathan Stewart Carolina 178 770 4.3 48 2
Shonn Greene N.Y. Jets 185 766 4.1 23 2
Ryan Torain Washington 164 742 4.5 54 4
Tim Hightower Arizona 153 736 4.8 80 5
Mike Tolbert San Diego 182 735 4.0 36 11
Chris Ivory New Orleans 137 716 5.2 55 5
Brandon Jackson Green Bay 190 703 3.7 71 3


Foster, Ivory, Tolbert, GreenEllis, Fred Jackson, Blount - Undrafted Free Agent
Johnson, Peterson, Steven Jackson, Moreno, Felix Jones, McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Tomlinson, Benson - 1st round pick
Jones Drew, Rice, Brandon Jackson, Greene, McCoy, Forte - 2nd round pick
Charles, Gore - 3rd round draft pick
Jacobs - 4th round draft pick
Turner, Hightower, Torain - 5th round draft pick
Bradshaw, Hillis, Thomas Jones - 7th round draft pick

This doesn't consider, since 2005, former first round picks Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, Reggie Bush, Maroney, Joseph Addai, Marshawn Lynch, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells and the book is still out on Jahvid Best, CJ Spiller and Ryan Matthews.

Just on the eyeball test, the truly elite backs, with a decent washout rate, were picked up in the 1st round, but there was plenty of serviceable and very good in other rounds or even not drafted at all.

IMHO, the evidence suggests that Belichick should care, but maybe not 1st round draft pick care.

Thanks for the data and the time it took to accumulate and analyze it. If they think that TB has another three or four years as an "elite" QB (which is my personal opinion, but I don't have the first hand knowledge of his health to say so), then they should get a premium RB to balance the attack, take the pressure off of him and reduce the hits he takes. The sacks stats just don't show all the wear and tear, especially after we learn that he fractured his plant foot over time.

 

[Patspsycho]

BJGE is a grinder, and Woodhead is the elusive 3rd down back, and if we add a game-changer (a pounder or a speedster) this would really enhance the run game, and cut down on the wear and tear for Brady.

Since our run game is already established and we have a very dependable back in BJGE (e.g., 1000+ yards, 13 TD's, and 0 turnovers) I think the time is right to take a high risk gamble in picking a RB in the earlier rounds. No more kicking on used tires.

 

[robbomango]

Would prefer a bigger back, that could not only go 1-1 with LB's, but can push the pile and punish tacklers as well as an asset as a blocker...

BJGE has become one of my fave's, ball security is a premium attribute..

Seems like if Beny packed on some more weight with his north-south, head pounding style he'd be the back you described. At times he's looked like a battering ram out there. Could or would that transformation be possible?

The "Kill Brady" playoff game plans make me nervous, poor guy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Seems like if Beny packed on some more weight with his north-south, head pounding style he'd be the back you described. At times he's looked like a battering ram out there. Could or would that transformation be possible?

The "Kill Brady" playoff game plans make me nervous, poor guy.

It's a crap shoot when you start messing with a RBs weight. They lose too much and they don't have the power to break tackles. They gain too much and they lose some agility and possibly straight-line speed.

Hes not perfect and hes not an elite-back, but I'd be apprehensive to tinker with BJGE's body weight. As you say he is a N/S runner, but he still needs that burst to hit the hole and the dexterity to make that 1st, sometimes 2nd cut to gain additional yardage.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'd like to see Ingram on our team. I don't see why everyone has gone cold on this kid all of a sudden. I love the way he runs and his instincts are second to none imo. 5'10 215 is plenty of power and size. Tweener is an overused hazing word of this generation. There are plenty of examples of shorter guys excelling in the nfl ,Woodhead, MJD, Bradshaw etc.

If he is there at our 2nd pick we should take him. He'd be an absolute steal. I wouldn't mind grabbing his teammate Jones either at 32. I can't justify taking him at 17 though. Defense is too much of a priority imo.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I really don't see the need to use a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick at RB.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Good discussion guys. To clarify my stance, I'm not saying picking a RB high in the draft is a must, just that I wouldn't call it a mistake either. I get the sense at this point though that regardless of it was a value pick or not, RB in the first 2 rounds would anger a lot of people.

Again, I'm very happy with what BJGE produced this year. Someone earlier pointed out that he was 16th in rushing yards and 2nd in TDs. Well, Antowain Smith was 12th in rushing yards and 2nd in TDs back in 2001. He didn't produce like that again in the following two seasons. I'm not saying BJGE is destined for that same path, He's younger and was much better in YPC than Smith in that first season. I just don't want to see the team, especially Brady, in a bind if the RBs don't produce like they did this season. A good RB, one that can push BJGE for the starting job, IMO is something that's really important this offseason. And while I again say it doesn't have to be a high pick, it's not a bad idea either.