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Why people kill

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Tunescribe, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. wistahpatsfan

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    Did I miss the part where she discussed the incarceration and hyper-supervision of children who are now raised in an atmosphere of fear and paranoia? Not that I can do anything about it, because whenever I let my kids wander off by themselves, go hiking in the woods, or play at the beach, one of my friends or family express concern and fear for them as if they are substituting for my role as a "responsible" parent who doesn't care if their child is snatched away in broad daylight, taken away, raped and murdered...all because I failed to keep constant watch over them until they are 18.
  3. Tunescribe

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    I'm sure you can add that and other things to the list. But, I think her basic outline re., prenatal/natal, infancy, school, nutrition, drugs and movies/video games is spot on. I found it very interesting how she dismissed gun proliferation, noting how Germans have as many guns per capita as we do yet a fraction of gun-related incidents.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That's true. Same goes for Canada. It's the combination of guns and the cultural acceptance of our violent, warrior society. We are numb to the effects of violence. Sure we pretend it's aweful, but to most of us, it's old hat and we move on as if nothing ever happened. The Obama administration and Congress are content to let it slide because that's just one less ball up in the air for them to deal with politically. No one wants to take on the NRA and 2nd Ammendment zealots because...well, they just don't have to.
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yet, according to Dr. Paul, guns alone aren't the problem. Further regulation of guns in a vacuum misses the point.
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    She lost me right off the pregnancy-bat.

    Those of us who are between 40 and 70 had mothers who had no idea that smoking, drinking or suger-swilling during pregnancy could be harmful or considered harmful. Heck, my oldest son is 40 and my OB recommended drinking a beer or some wine every night to help me sleep. No one said, "Don't smoke," and twinkies for breakfast and ice cream for dinner was considered a pregnant woman's right. IF we nursed, and nursing was not only unpopular but downright frowned on, we were told to drink beer while nursing because it "helped your milk let down." When our babies were teething we were told to rub a little whiskey on their gums.

    Were this author's theories correct baby boomers and Generation Xers would be the ones who are truly at risk for being mass murderers - and yet we are not.

    Then she goes onto this:

    Whatever happened to the theory that single parents, most especially POOR single parents, were the key to maladjusted criminally minded children?

    Now parents are going to get dinged for being hard workers? How does that square with the importance of teaching, through example, the value of a good work ethic?

    Sorry, this whole thing sounds like claptrap to me - with absolutely no scientific or statistical basis.
  7. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've noticed, in my relatively short time posting here, that you tend to resist reasonably derived and documented common-sense expositions with demands for "scientific/statistical" bases, while clouding matters with observations that seem oddly tangential. You need to consider her outline holistically, not simply zero in on one or two points to pick apart. Look at the forest, not just individual trees.
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Everyday my goal is to have optimum gut flora ... it's fun.

    I'm not sure of the science but how many moms
    carry a baby making sure everyday the kid is not the next Damien?

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  9. wistahpatsfan

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    That's my point.
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Does not "common sense" dictate that the children born in the last 20-30 years (the age of most mass murderers) are much less likely to have been subjected to maternal pregnancies which consisted of smoking, drinking and eating poorly than earlier generations?

    Have not the majority of the warnings and the OBs instructions to avoid such things been issued in the last two or three decades?

    What about all of those who've agreed here in the past that a major cause of criminal behaviour in young adults can be traced to the downfall of the family and the lack of a decent work ethic in the parents?

    Are you (and they) willing to throw it all away because you want to agree with a woman who says the exact opposite simply because you like her stance on guns?

    Coz that's how it looks.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  11. Tunescribe

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    That's silly, because (A) she has no "stance" on guns; she simply offered an observation that they, alone, appear not to be the problem and (B) I most certainly am not a gun advocate. As for the rest, your assessments are similarly myopic. For instance, what you cite as lifestyle-oriented "progress" during the last 20-30 years in prenatal/natal care is purely your conjecture and certainly does not refute the factors in Dr. Paul's theoretical outline. Like I said, put it all together and you've got a damn compelling summation of the root of a nagging societal problem.
  12. PatriotsReign

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    Where did you learn about gut flora? If you really want optimum gut flora, make sure to take a good probiotic...and maybe even a prebiotic supplement!

    Your poop will be very reliable....Excellent stools for you!

    All one has to do is check for the 666 birth mark and you know.
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    She also wants you to dialogue with your "inner child" to cure porn addiction and offers "inner bonding sessions" via telephone and Skype.

    Work with Dr. Margaret Paul

    Addicted to Porn? | Dr. Margaret Paul's Blog

    However, she does come highly recommended by Oprah, actress Lindsay Wagner and singer Alanis Morissette.
  14. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Inner child" is a metaphor for understanding and working with the source of your feelings. The woman does good work, all based on taking personal responsibility for your own well-being.
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Perhaps she does.....I, however, tend to mistrust any doctor/therapist who claims to be able to treat patients via telephone (Skype capabilities notwithstanding).
  16. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Her work is very specifically process based, and she requires grounding in the process (self-education) before working with people individually. She's actually quite reputable. She's written several books and has worked with groups and individuals for about 40 years. She also has a prison outreach program.
  17. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    We have 2 kids and let me tell you. They could'nt be anymore different. That's who they are and that's how they were born. I am not saying that our parenting and society won't alter or sculpt their personality. It most certainly will. They are not killers and killers are born. Sometimes society helps bring it to the fore front, it never creates a killer.
  18. 1228

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    I'm sure you hold an unbiased opinion, right?

    It could be a "learned" problem, or it could be that he was simply incapable - some people are just born messed up. The author starts with a false premise.

    Jesus christ. Stupid people will believe anything if you have if Dr. in front of your name. A quack citing a quack who makes claims regarding autism being caused by things like lack of breastfeeding and vaccines despite the fact there isn't any scientific evidence.

    The second portion of the article, which is regarding the brain development during infancy:

    :rolleyes:

    Or that he had a neurological problem. Like autism. The author is working with the preconceived, and completely unproven ideas that problems like autism are caused by bad parenting and gut flora. :rolleyes:

    Yeah there's a quality citation - a blog who focuses on UFOs and the paranormal, and offers two-year subscribers a FREE crop circle calendar! Wow. :bricks:

    Why does this doctor cite crackpot sites like naturalnews and UFO blogs instead of quoting from and linking to actual studies?

    Now I can see why you were convinced right off the bat that video games cause school shootings. :D


    This isn't even close to true. The U.S. has 88.8 guns per 100 people and Germany has 30.3. On top of that German gun laws are far more restrictive.

    This article titled "Why Do People Kill?" does absolutely nothing to address the subject. The majority of people who kill are not autistic or don't have the personality problems that Lanza did.

    The author just "suggests" or "asks" a bunch of random things, most of which are suggested (not proven) to be linked towards problems like autism not killing.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  19. DarrylS

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    I am very skeptical of any author such as this who mentions the role of mother several times, however ignores the impact of a father..

    I am more skeptical of any author who does not have a curriculum vitae available, did she get her Ph.D from Phoenix??? What other experience has she had??

    I am really skeptical of any psychologist who treats a person via Skype... pretty confident that this would violate some type of code established by her professional organization..

    OTOH looking for easy answers in "pop" psychology is folly... she knows very little about the Lanza family, to come to conclusions is stupid..
  20. DarrylS

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    That is the classic nature/nurture argument that has been going on for decades...

    What cannot be discounted is trauma, violence and other issues which can have a negative effect on the psyche... there are some children who experience very minor issues growing up, and later in life cannot function as adults. There are children who suffer horrfic abuse and witness violence through their lives and function well..

    It is reported that this kid Lanza was dx with Auspergers, and it is very rare for a person dx with this to be violent... what were the mitigating factors, we will never know....

    The reality is that the science of all of this is not all that reliable, been out of the business of corrections for 12 years now.. and remember the variable that seemed to be common amongst most prisoners was that they experienced and witnessed violence... that may have changed since then, not sure if there have been better studies..
  21. PatsFanInVa

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    Everybody wants proper gut flora but nobody's talking about the real issue, gut fauna
  22. PatriotsReign

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    You're right....flora AND fauna are both important. But "The left" refuses to acknowledge fauna.:D
  23. alvinnf

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    We tend to look for answers to explain why these events happen. We all need context to understand and frame out the why. The article the OP posts tries to cobble the their argument together using Adam Lanza. The human condition is a complex one with infinite amounts of variables effecting each persons experience differently. My example is using my two kids who are getting to experience the world through the lens of a stable happy childhood. There are so many other kids or people whom are'nt lucky enough to get the same experience. What I wonder is how do you create a world that can embrace those that might otherwise be predisposed to commit these kinds of acts. We can't, it's an impossibility. It's too hard to identify or know who needs the extra or positive attention. All we can do is look ourselves in the mirror and try our best to positively affect everyone you come in contact with. It's humanity and humanity's responsibility. It's just so hard to do. I know for me, I am just gonna try a little harder than before and be thankful for what I have.
  24. wistahpatsfan

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    None of what you post is wrong, but it's insufficient, IMO. Throwing our hands up on a mega-society level is not good enough, IMO. I'm doing fine and my kids are getting the best we can offer, too, but to end it at my front door makes me feel disconnected from everyone else. We have the capability to transform the entire planet and lead everyone else out of the multiple messes everyone has made of this planet. It could be a lot worse, but it could also be a lot better.

    I watched a Q&A with Buzz Aldrin on C-Span last night (yes, I'm a dork- I skipped The Bachelor and a Family Guy episode) and he had some amazing insights about American leadership and how we've lost our will to elevate the rest of the planet like we seemed to have in the 60's and 70's (not counting Viet Nam and the Cold War) regarding space exploration and the overall progress of the species. He criticized the last few presidents for lack of vision and sinking to the lowest common denominator (re-election). The most embarrassing part of the moderator's attitude while spewing out questions from the audience was his total lack of context and patience when Aldrin was trying to give answers that included historical, Big Picture context which seemed to irritate the host (who was 1/3 the age and intelligence of Buzz) who just wanted to cram in as many questions as possible. He repeatedly cut him off out of impatience and inability to hang on to a concept. I also suspect his audience had no idea what Aldrin was talking about half the time. My wife and I were shouting at the TV at one point, "Shut up and let Buzz make his point, jackazz!"

    Anyway...where was I?
  25. Tunescribe

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    Lo and behold. Sifting through your stink-bomb I knew it had to be in there. I never, ever suggested "video games cause school shootings." But don't let that get in the way of your manic fear that some ol' meany might toss cold water on your perverse joy of slaughtering dozens via digital display.
  26. Tunescribe

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    The fundamental point of the article is that this is a "micro" problem for which our society is misguidedly trying to identify and apply "macro" solutions (such as increased gun control). In a roundabout way, I think you're honing in on that.
  27. PatriotsReign

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    True Fact: One can now get "help" for video game addiction.

    How sad is that?!!

    Not only can they get help, video game/tech addiction is becoming a greater problem than many of the old traditional addictions.

    But it's not a case of where we can say, "Hey, humans have many addictions and have for years". That just doesn't make any valid points about this issue.

    http://www.techaddiction.ca/files/video-game-addiction-statistics.jpg

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    If you're calling it and accepting video games as a cause of gun violence and mass shootings I'd say it's not sad at all.
  29. Tunescribe

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    It's the "Matrix" scenario unfolding in its very early stages. People like 1228 will continue to live virtual lives until increasingly lifelike video worlds become their reality. Their muscles will atrophy (except for highly developed trigger fingers), their bodies will weaken. Ultimately, the increasingly intelligent machines will enslave mankind into these virtual worlds.
  30. PatriotsReign

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    Some more relevant links....

    Violent video games linked to child aggression

    Violent video games linked to child aggression - CNN

    French terrorist played violent video game Call of Duty before embarking on brutal killing spree of seven, says wife

    Violent video game Call of Duty once more linked to high-profile mass murder | Mail Online

    The First Clear Link Between Violent Video Games And Hostility

    The First Clear Link Between Violent Video Games And Hostility - Business Insider

    There is enough evidence to support further investigation.

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