Why Our Defense Needs More Help Than Many Think

[BionicPatriot]

One player on offense is not the same as half your defense, even if that one player is QB. In a perfect world, which that game against the Steelers was very close to being, the QB probably exerts the least amount of effort on the field of the 22 starters.

Tom Brady had a pretty good game all day, so I don't find this to be a valid excuse. I know alot of people think this team's perfect, and we can't be outplayed/coached, but we were. Look, if the flu affected them THAT bad, why would they explode like that in one half, then suddenly we have no answer the second half?

It's not because we got tired. The Colts sucked in the first half because they went for the big plays. Hobbs and Samuel played their butts off and owned Manning. Then suddenly when they exposed our weakness, which is inside, Dallas Clark owned us. They exposed our weakness over the middle, no ifs, ends, or buts about it. Do I think the same would happen now? Not quite, because I think getting a versatile guy like Thomas stops that problem somewhat.

I'm not saying our D sucks, I said we need to get more athletic at the ILB position. If people really honestly believe an old Harrison and an injury prone Seau is the answer, I dunno what to tell you.

 

[mgteich]

If you think that a couple of inexperienced rookies would have helped more that Harrison and Seau, I don't know what to tell you. We were one first down away from the SB and now we need to overhaul our defense. We've always had posted who prefer untested rookies to veterans, who prefer youth to experience.

Tom Brady had a pretty good game all day, so I don't find this to be a valid excuse. I know alot of people think this team's perfect, and we can't be outplayed/coached, but we were. Look, if the flu affected them THAT bad, why would they explode like that in one half, then suddenly we have no answer the second half?

It's not because we got tired. The Colts sucked in the first half because they went for the big plays. Hobbs and Samuel played their butts off and owned Manning. Then suddenly when they exposed our weakness, which is inside, Dallas Clark owned us. They exposed our weakness over the middle, no ifs, ends, or buts about it. Do I think the same would happen now? Not quite, because I think getting a versatile guy like Thomas stops that problem somewhat.

I'm not saying our D sucks, I said we need to get more athletic at the ILB position. If people really honestly believe an old Harrison and an injury prone Seau is the answer, I dunno what to tell you.

 

[BionicPatriot]

If you think that a couple of inexperienced rookies would have helped more that Harrison and Seau, I don't know what to tell you. We were one first down away from the SB and now we need to overhaul our defense. We've always had posted who prefer untested rookies to veterans, who prefer youth to experience.

This is why some people should not post before they learn reading comprehension.

I said the defense is OK, it just needs to be tweaked. Overhauled? Hardly. I'm not asking for a rookie to be a star. But if you think by the time the playoffs get here that rookie will still be clueless, that's you. It's pointless because some of you swear to god Tedy is still a good LB. I love the guy, he's in my avatar, hes my favorite Pat outside of Tom. But after the titans game, seeing him get ran voer by Travis Henry, I knew the end of his time was here. The Colt game was just another painful version.

I think Bruschi can be OK--As a roll player. If we expect him to play alot, we're in trouble. I just want to get a rookie we can develop who can learn from him and split time with him. That's hardly calling for an overhaul.

 

[14thDragon]

If you think that a couple of inexperienced rookies would have helped more that Harrison and Seau, I don't know what to tell you. We were one first down away from the SB and now we need to overhaul our defense. We've always had posted who prefer untested rookies to veterans, who prefer youth to experience.

They are always untested rookies until they are thrown into the fire and seasoned up. Why not add some youth and altheltisim to work with your veteran experience? This really would be a good time to get some hier apperents ready for the ILB position.

 

[dhamz]

If you think that a couple of inexperienced rookies would have helped more that Harrison and Seau, I don't know what to tell you.

A couple of more talented inexperienced players may have helped more than the talent limited and inexperienced Alexander or the experienced and limited Banta-Cain.

What reason is there to ever again go into a season planning for Rodney Harrison or Junior Seau will be on the field in January/February? Rodney hasn't finished either of the last 2 years. Junior hasn't finished a year since 2003. If we do count on either doing that in 2007 it will be a huge risk and based on where we stand now, a needless one. We may get lucky and they remain healthy but the odds against it are long.

The defense doesn't need an "overhaul" but there are spots that can upgraded. I see no reason not to use the resources we have (picks and cap space) to do so.

 

[DaBruinz]

Um, no. It was Manning chopping the defense up in little minutes that did us in. I find it funny you think you know everything. So Harrison and Seau is why we lost to the Colts in the regular season? I didn't know having Harrison AND Seau on the field would've made the offense not turn the ball over 4 times. Nice spin, but your just flat out wrong.

Looks like someone has his panties in a wad because others didn't like his faulty opinion. The 4 turnovers weren't the ONLY reason the Pats lost the regular season game to the Colts. And its amazing how people like yourself want to look at things in a vacuum instead of on the whole. But, you go right on doing so and wowing everyone.

Um, ok coach. I'm sorry I'm arguing with someone who knows so much. So when the **** did Seau become a cover specialist? All the guy can do at this point is stop the run! He has no effect on coverage. But think what you will.

Instead of getting your panties in a wad when people don't take your comments as gospel, you might want to try thinking about what they are saying instead of jumping to even stupider conclusions that show your knowledge of the game to be lacking.

Now, if you want to be stupid enough to think that Seau being in on 1st and 2nd down had NO AFFECT on what other teams did on 3rd down, go right ahead. But, here's a clue for you. There is a reason why the term 3rd and LONG came about. If the defense can stop the run on 1st and or 2nd down, it makes the defenses job that much easier on 3rd down because the offenses options are limited. When an offense is picking up 2-4 yards on 1st and 2nd down, it gives the offense that many more options.

No, we didn't lose because of the Colts running game. Wanna know the stat line for the Colts RBs in the AFC championship?
D. Rhodes AT.14 YDs.69 TD0
J. Addai AT.14 YDs.56 TD1

Since you are so great at pointing out stats, heres a stat for you to stumble over. The Colts had 19 running plays in the second half. 2 of which resulted in TDs.

If you want to think that having 19 running plays in a half didn't contribute to the Pats defense being tired, well I can assure you that it did.

God, how insane! /sarcasm. They did little for such a great 1-2 punch. Wanna know Manning's stats?

P. Manning CP/AT27/47 YDs349 TD1

He passed ALL over us. It was because our LBs can't cover anyone.

While Alexander and company couldn't cover the TEs (something I have said on numerous occasions, but I wouldn't expect you to know that), it wasn't the ONLY reason we lost. And you are stupid for believing its the ONLY reason we lost. Sorry, but you are.

Um, sure. Who are those plays? We have TWO, count em TWO LBs who are at good speed right now. A. Thomas and Vrabel. You really think Vrabel and Bruschi are that good anymore? Your just wearing Patriot glasses.

Do you even know how to write a proper sentence? Trying to decifer your posts is frigging ridiculous.

BTW, Pierre Woods has good speed. And Colvin is no schmuck.

Unlike you, Chicken Little, I don't look at things in a vacuum and go running around screaming that the sky is falling when I don't understand the situation, which you really don't seem to. You have this ONE TRACK MIND that thinks that the ONLY reason the Pats lost was that we didn't have anyone who could cover their TEs.

Guess what. Not being able to run the ball in the 2nd half contributed to the Pats not being able to sustain drives on offense. Why couldn't they run the ball? Because Dillon, Maroney, and Faulk were all injured. Maroney tried to play through it, but he was ineffective. Now, what happens to our team's defense if the offense can't sustain a drive? They get tired. What happens when they are fatigued by the flu and having been sick? They get tired all that much quicker.

The Pats also need to add a MLB who is not old as dirt and can stay healthy. Seau proved he CANNOT do this.

The Pats don't use a MLB. They use an ILB. And there are HUGE differences in the responsibility of the positions. You might want to do some homework on that so you will understand.

And, I am amazed that you are stupid enough to fault Seau for the broken arm. It was a FLUKE injury. Those kind of things happen. But its not Seau's fault.

You tell me one team that has so much depth that if it suffers injuries in the secondary it'll still be a good unit. None, absolutely none. We need depth, but it's not a dire need. Your insane if you think Harrison is great at anything anymore other then run defense. He was nothing great early on this season.

The Patriots. They were still good in their secondary though they lost Randall Gay, Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones. Things got harder when they lost Harrison and Wilson. But, then you are talking about your 2 starters and 1 primary back-up and 2 players who were injured prior to the regular season.

As for me being "insane," well, considering the source, I will take that as a compliment.

So, I hope next time you run around and say "FACT, FACT, FACT" You learn the truth. Thanks, and next time you wanna look like a fool again, feel free to do exactly what you just did.

OH, and while Sanders is ok behind Rodney and has played well, he's still got a long way to go. Hawkins and Scott, while they got the job done, can be improved upon.

[/quote]

I'm sorry, you seem to think you actually disproved the things that I said. The only person looking like a fool here is you, Bionic. I don't feel foolish at all. Nor should I. I am not like you. I don't look at things in a vacuum and I don't pretend that the offense not being able to stay on the field doesn't affect the defense at all.

OH, and BTW, I suggest you actually READ the last paragraph of the post you replied to. I said that many of us, myself included, are touting the Pats getting Safeties and CBs in the draft. When someone like myself says something like that, its usually because I believe that there CAN be improvements over the players we have currently. Its pretty stupid of you to reiterate what I said and act like you are telling me something that I don't already know. Oh wait, you are good at that.

 

[DaBruinz]

In the 04 AFC championship game, Brady had a temperature over 100. He also tore the Steelers up that day.

Thoughts?

Hmm.. Gee. Maybe you need to be reminded that Brady ALSO took IV fluids before the game and at half-time to help keep himself hydrated.

Also, you might want to remember that Brady isn't in a head to head battle with another 300+ lb. lineman on every play. Nor is Brady running 15-20 yards on every passing play. Its really kind of stupid for you to attempt to compare the physical demands of a QB to that of a front 7 on defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

Tom Brady had a pretty good game all day, so I don't find this to be a valid excuse. I know alot of people think this team's perfect, and we can't be outplayed/coached, but we were. Look, if the flu affected them THAT bad, why would they explode like that in one half, then suddenly we have no answer the second half?

Its not an excuse. Its reality. Its not about people thinking that this team is perfect.

Its really easy to explain. First off, its didn't happen just in one half. The Pats defense was getting run down at the end of the 1st half. Its why the Pats gave up a 13 play drive right at the end of the 1st half. And, then, proceded to give up another 13 play drive at the start of the 2nd half. Secondly, there is such a thing as adrenaline. It doesn't last that long. Also, take into consideration that the defense was on the field the last 3 minutes of the 1st half and the 1st 6:49 of the second half. Do you really think the 15 "break" they get is all that much time to get rested? I can tell you its not. At best, it gives them time to get in, go to the bathroom, take a 5 minute break and get back on the field.

It's not because we got tired. The Colts sucked in the first half because they went for the big plays. Hobbs and Samuel played their butts off and owned Manning. Then suddenly when they exposed our weakness, which is inside, Dallas Clark owned us. They exposed our weakness over the middle, no ifs, ends, or buts about it. Do I think the same would happen now? Not quite, because I think getting a versatile guy like Thomas stops that problem somewhat.

I don't know if you have ever played football, but it sure is coming across as if you don't have a friggin clue. You clearly don't understand how tired a defense that is already suffering from the flu and being physically and mentally exhausted from the previous week can get run down so quickly.

Yes, Part of it was that we couldn't cover Dallas Clark. But that was only PART of it. Another part of it was that our OFFENSE couldn't stay on the field. Another part of it is that the defense couldn't stop the Colts running in the 2nd half.

I'm not saying our D sucks, I said we need to get more athletic at the ILB position. If people really honestly believe an old Harrison and an injury prone Seau is the answer, I dunno what to tell you.

Listen, maybe you should step back and actually go read some posts in the draft forum instead of being stupid and making assumptions. No one is saying that Seau and Harrison are the answers for THIS YEAR. NO ONE is saying that. What people are saying is that NOT HAVING Seau and Harrison could have been the difference LAST YEAR. Having Seau and Harrison for the AFCCG changes the whole dynamic of the team. The Pats wouldn't have had to rely on Rashad Baker and Antwan Spann being on the field in the 2nd half of the game at one point.

Many people, myself included, WANT the Patriots to draft LBs, CBs and Safeties. You'd know that if you actually went into the draft forum and read some of the posts there.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is why some people should not post before they learn reading comprehension.

Dude, that was uncalled for. MG is a helluva lot smarter than you have proven to be so far. He's also one of the most well-respected posters on this board.

I said the defense is OK, it just needs to be tweaked. Overhauled? Hardly. I'm not asking for a rookie to be a star. But if you think by the time the playoffs get here that rookie will still be clueless, that's you. It's pointless because some of you swear to god Tedy is still a good LB. I love the guy, he's in my avatar, hes my favorite Pat outside of Tom. But after the titans game, seeing him get ran voer by Travis Henry, I knew the end of his time was here. The Colt game was just another painful version.

Tedy is still a good LB when he's playing the WILB position and not the SILB position. Do you understand the difference? Bruschi was playing out of position against the Colts. He's not suited for the SILB position. Its why he and Seau worked so well together. Because Seau IS suited for that position. I would love to have someone else who could take over the SILB position to allow Tedy to play the WILB position.

Also, its not bright to slam someone about reading comprehension when why sit there and type "seeing him get RAN VOER by Travis Henry".

I think Bruschi can be OK--As a roll player. If we expect him to play alot, we're in trouble. I just want to get a rookie we can develop who can learn from him and split time with him. That's hardly calling for an overhaul.

As I said, instead of throwing a temper tantrum when you think people are disagreeing with your assessment, I suggest you go over to the draft forum and read what people are saying. If you did that, you wouldn't be attacking myself or MG and acting like we don't have a clue.

 

[zippo59]

Tedy led the team in tackles last year. He's not as good as the 2004 Pro Bowl version but he's still a good LB.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Looks like someone has his panties in a wad because others didn't like his faulty opinion. The 4 turnovers weren't the ONLY reason the Pats lost the regular season game to the Colts. And its amazing how people like yourself want to look at things in a vacuum instead of on the whole. But, you go right on doing so and wowing everyone.

So tell me why? I gave a reason, you did not.

Instead of getting your panties in a wad when people don't take your comments as gospel, you might want to try thinking about what they are saying instead of jumping to even stupider conclusions that show your knowledge of the game to be lacking.

Panties in a wad? No, I simply responded to you the way you came to me. Screaming "fact" after every sentence sounded pretty arogant dude.

Now, if you want to be stupid enough to think that Seau being in on 1st and 2nd down had NO AFFECT on what other teams did on 3rd down, go right ahead. But, here's a clue for you. There is a reason why the term 3rd and LONG came about. If the defense can stop the run on 1st and or 2nd down, it makes the defenses job that much easier on 3rd down because the offenses options are limited. When an offense is picking up 2-4 yards on 1st and 2nd down, it gives the offense that many more options.

Wow, you act like with Seau we weren't able to be run on. Remember in the Jets game? Seau was playing and the defense still could not get off the field that day. I understand what your saying, but Seau is not the kind of impact LB you make him out to be. Again, we still stopped the run fairly decent, so I don't see why you think we missed him that much.

Since you are so great at pointing out stats, heres a stat for you to stumble over. The Colts had 19 running plays in the second half. 2 of which resulted in TDs.

One of which was right at the 1. The fact is the Colts players were getting nothing for yardage. You said the runningbacks beat us, they did not.

If you want to think that having 19 running plays in a half didn't contribute to the Pats defense being tired, well I can assure you that it did.

Ofcourse it contributed. However, being destroyed for enarly 400 yards over the middle had worse effects.

While Alexander and company couldn't cover the TEs (something I have said on numerous occasions, but I wouldn't expect you to know that), it wasn't the ONLY reason we lost. And you are stupid for believing its the ONLY reason we lost. Sorry, but you are.

Um, I'm stupid? So you suddenly know me? I said we lost because the Colts exploited us over the middle. They did! That's why Manning's WRs didn't have a big day. That's why the RBs didn't have big yardage, that's why Dallas Clark had a great day. Because they killed us over the middle. It wasn't the only reason, but it was the main one.

Do you even know how to write a proper sentence? Trying to decifer your posts is frigging ridiculous.

Seeing as how I've done just fine in english courses, I think so. If you have trouble reading them because of a type here or there, that's your problem.

BTW, Pierre Woods has good speed. And Colvin is no schmuck.

Ok, and? So can Pierre play inside for us? This means nothing. Here, I'll be more specific. We need faster, athletic STARTERS. Clear?

Unlike you, Chicken Little, I don't look at things in a vacuum and go running around screaming that the sky is falling when I don't understand the situation, which you really don't seem to. You have this ONE TRACK MIND that thinks that the ONLY reason the Pats lost was that we didn't have anyone who could cover their TEs.

No, I have an open mind that knows that's the main reason we lost.

Guess what. Not being able to run the ball in the 2nd half contributed to the Pats not being able to sustain drives on offense. Why couldn't they run the ball? Because Dillon, Maroney, and Faulk were all injured. Maroney tried to play through it, but he was ineffective. Now, what happens to our team's defense if the offense can't sustain a drive? They get tired. What happens when they are fatigued by the flu and having been sick? They get tired all that much quicker.

They didn't stop the Colts coming out for the 2nd half either, did they? Our offense did nothing to help, bout our D was killed, plain and simple. I'm not saying it's the only reason, I said our lack of athletes were exposed. Why else would BB put Alexander on the field? He got desperate to look for athletes. I wouldn't expect your rose colored, one track mind to realize that though.

The Pats don't use a MLB. They use an ILB. And there are HUGE differences in the responsibility of the positions. You might want to do some homework on that so you will understand.

Whatever, you know what I mean. We need athletic LBs inside. That clear? Sorry I can't be specific.

And, I am amazed that you are stupid enough to fault Seau for the broken arm. It was a FLUKE injury. Those kind of things happen. But its not Seau's fault.

I'm even more amazed that you fail to mention how Seau's not played a full season in enarly 5 seasons or so.

The Patriots. They were still good in their secondary though they lost Randall Gay, Mel Mitchell and Tebucky Jones. Things got harder when they lost Harrison and Wilson. But, then you are talking about your 2 starters and 1 primary back-up and 2 players who were injured prior to the regular season.

I said starters. Were they starters? No.

As for me being "insane," well, considering the source, I will take that as a compliment.

I'm sorry, you seem to think you actually disproved the things that I said. The only person looking like a fool here is you, Bionic. I don't feel foolish at all. Nor should I. I am not like you. I don't look at things in a vacuum and I don't pretend that the offense not being able to stay on the field doesn't affect the defense at all.

OH, and BTW, I suggest you actually READ the last paragraph of the post you replied to. I said that many of us, myself included, are touting the Pats getting Safeties and CBs in the draft. When someone like myself says something like that, its usually because I believe that there CAN be improvements over the players we have currently. Its pretty stupid of you to reiterate what I said and act like you are telling me something that I don't already know. Oh wait, you are good at that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, we need CBs because Hobbs and Samuelw ere such problems, right? And we can't possibly afford Samuel's Bly type money, right? No, we can. We need help at ILB. If you don't think so, that's you.

 

[mgteich]

That can't be possible. Tedy is over the hill, and possibly be counted on to be a major contributer in 2007. You just can't keep on letting facts get in the way when you post.

Tedy led the team in tackles last year. He's not as good as the 2004 Pro Bowl version but he's still a good LB.

 

[BionicPatriot]

That can't be possible. Tedy is over the hill, and possibly be counted on to be a major contributer in 2007. You just can't keep on letting facts get in the way when you post.

First off, sorry if I seemed stiff by my earlier remarks. I'm not ehre to get into a pissing match with the whole board, just to debate.

I have MY opinion, I believe Bruschi is done. Why? Because every time I see him tackle a ball carrier now Bruschi lands on his back. Tackles can be an overrated stat. JMO, nothing else, nothing less.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Its not an excuse. Its reality. Its not about people thinking that this team is perfect.

Its really easy to explain. First off, its didn't happen just in one half. The Pats defense was getting run down at the end of the 1st half. Its why the Pats gave up a 13 play drive right at the end of the 1st half. And, then, proceded to give up another 13 play drive at the start of the 2nd half. Secondly, there is such a thing as adrenaline. It doesn't last that long. Also, take into consideration that the defense was on the field the last 3 minutes of the 1st half and the 1st 6:49 of the second half. Do you really think the 15 "break" they get is all that much time to get rested? I can tell you its not. At best, it gives them time to get in, go to the bathroom, take a 5 minute break and get back on the field

Um yes. How can you tell me? I've played football for many years. I have no idea what the pro game is like, obviously. However I do know that if I, a defensive linemen myself, can get fully rested in a half, a professional athlete can. If you think halftime is not enough, you obviously never played football.

I don't know if you have ever played football, but it sure is coming across as if you don't have a friggin clue. You clearly don't understand how tired a defense that is already suffering from the flu and being physically and mentally exhausted from the previous week can get run down so quickly.

Um, I do. I once played in a game where we had 4 TOs on offense, and the QB we were facing was simply gashing us because he was a big, physical runner. But again, running did not eliminate the Patriots. I'm sure fatigued played a role, but good lord, give some credit to the Colts. Burning us all day and night across the middle contributed to that.

Yes, Part of it was that we couldn't cover Dallas Clark. But that was only PART of it. Another part of it was that our OFFENSE couldn't stay on the field. Another part of it is that the defense couldn't stop the Colts running in the 2nd half.

I showed you stats, you show me nothing. How in the blue hell did we not stop the Colts running game? TWO runners COMBINED had just voer 100 yards. If that's getting killed, then wow. Your standards for run D are ridiculous. It's hard to believe Dallas Clark was only a small part when he was the Colts leading receiver and Manning had over 300+ yards against us.

Listen, maybe you should step back and actually go read some posts in the draft forum instead of being stupid and making assumptions. No one is saying that Seau and Harrison are the answers for THIS YEAR. NO ONE is saying that. What people are saying is that NOT HAVING Seau and Harrison could have been the difference LAST YEAR. Having Seau and Harrison for the AFCCG changes the whole dynamic of the team. The Pats wouldn't have had to rely on Rashad Baker and Antwan Spann being on the field in the 2nd half of the game at one point.

You and your personal attacks, grow up. All you do is call someone stupid who disagrees with you. So elt me get this straight, if we have Harrison and Seau, they could have covered Dallas Clark? They too would not have had the flu? Your not watching much of Harrison's game because I promise you, coverage is not his specialty anymore. That's run support.

Many people, myself included, WANT the Patriots to draft LBs, CBs and Safeties. You'd know that if you actually went into the draft forum and read some of the posts there.

Maybe because I'm responding to THIS thread, ever think of that?

 

[BionicPatriot]

Dude, that was uncalled for. MG is a helluva lot smarter than you have proven to be so far. He's also one of the most well-respected posters on this board.

You know this how? This is big talk coming from someone who screams out stupid every other sentence.

Tedy is still a good LB when he's playing the WILB position and not the SILB position. Do you understand the difference? Bruschi was playing out of position against the Colts. He's not suited for the SILB position. Its why he and Seau worked so well together. Because Seau IS suited for that position. I would love to have someone else who could take over the SILB position to allow Tedy to play the WILB position.

Ok, so that explains why Bruschi, who once a stud at coverage gets burned, and why everytime he makes a tackle he falls on his ass. Right. And by the way, I edited this post because I jsut rememebred. When I first began playing high school ball, I switched from a DT to a WILL and a SAM LB. So smart pants, can you tell me what a WILL and a SAM does? It's not hard. And if you do know, it's not a good excuse either. Both play coverage, both are expected to make a tackle. It's not nearly the difference your making it out to be.

Also, its not bright to slam someone about reading comprehension when why sit there and type "seeing him get RAN VOER by Travis Henry".

LMAO. First off, do you even know what reading comprehension is? Your saying I shouldn't talk about one's reading comprehension skill's because I commited a typo. It's clear an idiot with half a brain can tell what "RAN VOER" really means. Nice try, it figures you'd compare reading comprehension and typos. Good job trying to seem smart while proving your clueless yet again.

As I said, instead of throwing a temper tantrum when you think people are disagreeing with your assessment, I suggest you go over to the draft forum and read what people are saying. If you did that, you wouldn't be attacking myself or MG and acting like we don't have a clue.

How in the hell can you possibly say this? Temper tantrum? First off, I don't need to go to a draft forum when I'm discussing this topic. Your the one who called me a chicken little because I said I feel that we need to become more athletic at the LB position. But I'm the one who has a temper tantrum? I'm also not the one screaming "stupid" every little sentence that I can squeeze it into.

You call me clueless, say I have a temper tantrum because you disagree with me, wow. Take a look in the freaking mirror.