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Why Obamacare MUST go!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I don't believe that the "tax" on premium policies is definite. I know it was being considered but went against Obama's promise "Not to raise taxes on those making less than $250K"

    So let's just see if that PROMISE is broken.

    To recap;

    Obamacare will provide low-cost to free health care to those who can't afford it.

    Obamacare will result in HIGHER insurance costs to those of us who WORKED to get company paid health insurance

    Obama wants to add a tax onto to those who WORKED to get company paid health insurance....EXCEPT THOSE IN UNIONS!

    So in order to pay for health insurance for those who can't afford it, those of us who WORKED to get company paid health insurance will pay MORE for that benefit AND pay an ADDITIONAL TAX upon the benefit we WORKED to get.

    Yup, make a lot of sense to me!:rolleyes:

    Let us pray this thing is repealed soon! All those who WORKED to get company paid health insurance, please join me.
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While we're at it, let's also remember that many, if not all, of the people recently elected to office were elected on the premise and promise that JOBS FOR AMERICANS and THE ECONOMY would be their number 1 priority.

    Let's also remember that all the time and money they now intend on wasting on fighting another round of health care benefits will be time taken away from that supposedly No. 1 Priority.

    Let us also remember that while you-all keep insisting that this is what ALL AMERICANS WANT - that most of the races won were close ones - meaning that there is still a large percentage of people who DIDN'T vote for them and who do NOT agree with them.

    Let us also remember that only 18% of American voters polled cited health care as a priority concern.

    Most voters are worried about the economy. In fact, 62 percent listed it as the top priority in a national exit poll. Only 18 percent cited health care, with illegal immigration and Afghanistan trailing with 8 percent each.

    Voters want lawmakers to fix economy | desmoinesregister.com | The Des Moines Register

    Let us not overlook the fact that, despite what Republicans have said, repealing health care reform would immediately add $143 billion to the deficit.

    Add to that the cost of overriding automatic cuts in Medicare fees paid to doctors and Republicans would have added about $160 billion to the deficit before even getting out of the blocks
    .

    Want to undo health care reform? Be prepared to pay.

    Let us not forget that, in a Harvard October poll people questioned about health care gave the following answers:

    The October Harvard poll found that 41 percent of registered voters say they are for repealing or dismantling the new health care reform bill, while 49 percent of them support implementing or even expanding the law.

    Poll Shows Voter Divide on Health Care - Cristine Russell - Politics - The Atlantic
  3. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Obamacare is a horrible policy that will only serve to increase the cost of care, while over burdening an already stretched system. That's by design though. The true plan behind Obamacare, is a path to a single payer system. Good times for us in the working class.
  4. MOSS

    MOSS Rookie

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    And a path to single payer is the path to one of the most effective heath care system in the world.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Obama's healthcare plan is highly flawed, but something needs to be done about the problem of health insurance being unaffordable to so many people.

    It's that simple.

    I'd take some of the politicians opposing the plan much more seriously if they were offering anything to address this enormous problem.
  6. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Sure, if by "effective" you're a closet socialist who considers watered down, substandard, rationed care for everyone but the elite who can afford otherwise, is "effective". Having spent as much time in a european country as I have, that employs a socialized single payer system, I'll pass on one thanks. If you've never known any better, then it might seem great to you. The truth is, it's not.


    None of this matters since Obamacare is unconstitutional, and will be deemed so once it gets to the SCOTUS.
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    You're aware that health care is "rationed" just as much here as it is anywhere else, right?

    Further, Obamacare is not unconstitutional. You might argue the mandate is unconstitutional, and if the SCOTUS finds that to be the case it will be severed from the law and the law itself will be amended accordingly.
  8. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I'm curious as to what your ideal solution would be. Everyone knows that health care costs are on an unsustainable trajectory. Chico noted that while Obamacare is flawed, it's at least a serious attempt at addressing the problem.

    What's the GOP position on health care? Where is their plan?
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The dems are about to lose Weiner's old seat, Obamacare is part of the reason.
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Link?

    ...........
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure

    GOP Challenger Pulls Ahead in Race for Weiner’s Spot - ABC News


    The seat held by schmuck Schumer prior to Weiner, hard to believe the dems could lose that seat...... :D


    No wonder the dems are panicking/
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  12. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Perhaps you misunderstood my question.

    Link?
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're thinking about it.

    God Willing
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    And from other surveys taken the same week ----

    The race for the U.S. House seat vacated by disgraced New York Rep. Anthony D. Weiner - once thought to be a lock for Democrats - continues to be closer than expected. Just how close depends on who’s counting.

    Results of a survey released Friday by the Democratic polling firm Global Strategy Group showed Democrat David Weprin with an 8 percentage-point lead - 47 percent to 39 percent - over Republican Bob Turner. A large number of potential voters in the New York City district - 14 percent - said they were undecided.

    The pollster noted that Mr. Weprin’s poll numbers improved significantly after he received an endorsement last week from the New York Times.

    But GOP pollster McLaughlin & Associates portrayed a different scenario Thursday when it released the results of a poll that showed the candidates deadlocked with 42 percent of the vote. Sixteen percent of that survey’s respondents in the district, which includes parts of Brooklyn and Queens, were undecided.


    Race for Weiner's seat close but margin is up for debate - Washington Times

    Doesn't matter anyhow, does it, since 13 has stated that polls are mostly a waste of time to begin with.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...more-when-he-had-votes-page8.html#post2623301
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The dem should be ahead by 20 pts in that district, a close race is a disaster for dem prospects next year.
    The panic and dear among dems is not just for this seat but for the election next year with an unpopular, failed president atop the ticket and 24 dem senate seats up for grabs.


    Have fun whistling past the graveyard.
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Yawn. So, once again, you made a claim you have no evidence to support.
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! That isn't a claim it is a statement based on previous elections in that district and the vote for the dem candidates. The dems are poised to lose a congressional seat in New York City that covers parts of Queens and Brooklyn.

    Spin all you want congressional dems are looking at this an crapping their pants.

    :D

    Here another poll a lefty on this time:


    Turner poised for big upset - Public Policy Polling
  19. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Worst. Reading comprehension. Ever.
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have fun with the spin, JMO 2012 will be WORSE for the dem party that 2010. :D
  21. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I'm shocked you hold that opinion.

    Of course, the Dems appear to be ahead on Gallup's Congressional ballot so we shall see.
  22. patsfan13

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    Link for that?
  23. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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  24. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Looking at the poll internals they gave no indication of how they weighed party affiliation in their sample. So it is hard to know how accurate the poll is. I would note however that dem pollster J Zogby has said that dems need to be up 7 pts in a poll to break even with pubs on the vote. I would also note that the Gallup poll is for registered voters as opposed to likely voters. Rasmussen has the pubs ahead by 7 pts in their generic poll currently:

    Generic Congressional Ballot - Rasmussen Reports™

  25. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find this hysterically funny for some reason.

    It looks like it’s a little more popular to be a liberal or a progressive these days, although conservative remains the best political label you can put on a candidate for public office. Being linked to the Tea Party is the biggest negative.

    Generic Congressional Ballot - Rasmussen Reports™
  26. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Yeah, there's a reason why only certain people take Rasmussen seriously.

    I'll go with Gallup, you can go with Rasmussen.
  27. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    It's not nearly as "rationed" here as it is there Jack. I know, you'll try to find some link that shows how some poor sap wasn't given a drug for some reason. This will be another one of those "the stimulus worked" deals.

    Since the mandate is part of Obamacare, and central to how it's paid for, then yes, it is unconstitutional. When the mandate goes, and people are forced at gun point to buy insurance, the costs of the program will be worse than we already assume them to be.

    Ask the GOP what their plan is. I don't work for them.


    I've never understood why people feel that a terribly flawed plan, policy, or proposal is worth trying "because it's something". I'd much rather people do nothing, than do something they know will only fail, and cost them more in resources. If I ran my business that way, it wouldn't be long before I'd have no business to run at all. While I don't profess to have all the answers, I've mentioned some outline points for what I'd look to have done. I'd look to do something along the lines of providing a sort of public option, but one that would be a minimal, extremely rationed, bare necessities type of care. Basically, if you want other people to pay for you, then you are going to take whatever it is they decide to provide. It might seem inhumane, eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil, or lacking compassion, but it's how it would work were it up to me. The bottom line is that nothing is free, and people should seek their own care if at all possible. With that, I would provide a tax credit, or voucher for those who purchased their own care, or provided it to their employees. In the end they wouldn't be on the gubmit dole through the public option, so the cost of any credit or voucher would be at least cost neutral, if not a net savings. Obviously some calcuations would have to be done to figure out what the credit would be. Another aspect of the healthcare deal would be illegals (yes, illegals). With the current open border welfare state being what it is, border security and the deportation of all deadbeat, red ink, services sucking illegals would definately be a part of my policy. If I already have to pay for my own insurance, and your insurance, I sure a hell am not paying for Tran from China's, Jose from Guadalupe, Uncle Omar from Kolego, and Shane from Dublin's insurance. Oh, not even Guido from Palermo would be safe. ;)
  28. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Trying to certify or determine a winner from the polls being mentioned here, is as big a waste of time as can be. If the generic ballot tells us anything, it's that your all wasting time, and if the polls from a burrough inside urban NYC tell us a republican is ahead, well...I rest my case.
  29. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Nope. I really don't care what your views are on the respective health care systems. Apparently you think some vague horror stories are enough to offset the fact that we pay twice as much per capita for our health care and receive relatively subpar outcomes. I don't care to argue the merits beyond that.

    No. Obamacare itself is not unconstitutional. If the mandate is found to be unconstitutional, they'll likely amend the law to enforce participation through taxation instead of regulation.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  30. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought Obamacare was going to lower cost? Why raise taxes. Did Obama lose his magic beans or something.

    BTW the corts have already said that because of the way the law is written if the mandate goes the whole thing is gone. Think the dems can get a new Obamacare through congress now???????????????????



    :singing:

    Thanks Jack that IS funny.

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