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Why Obama can not win....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by FreeTedWilliams, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    He has totally alienated a core Democrat constituancy the Jewish Americans.

    Here is an article from a dying breed, a Democrat, I actually like and respect. Ed Koch

    http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_wright/2008/03/24/82658.html

    Before we discuss his grandmother, let’s examine the impact of Rev. Wright’s statements on the senator’s two daughters. Nothing says it better than a song from the musical “South Pacific,” to wit, “You have to be taught to hate and fear…You’ve got to be carefully taught.” Few dispute that Rev. Wright’s sermons are filled with hate. Why didn’t Obama stand up in the church and denounce his hateful statements or, at the very least, argue privately with his minister? It was horrifying to see on a video now viewed across America the congregation rise from the pews to applaud their minister’s rants.


    Obama was asked if he thought his speech changed any minds. He replied he didn’t think so, and certainly not of those who weren’t already for him. A more important question is, whether his 20-year relationship with Wright has done lasting damage to his candidacy.

    We will soon know
     
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Why are Jewish Americans so important to getting elected?
    Someone try to answer this, and try to duck the thousand 'anti-semite' insults hurled your way while attempting this.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In Fl the Jewish vote is critical. Dem traditionally get ~80=90% of the Jewish vote. If the Jewish vote were to swing to McCain due to the percieved Anti Semitic rants of Rev Wright and the association with Farrakhan, it could cost the dems any chance of winning FL. This makes it tougher for a dem to be leected.

    Although the Jewish vote is big in NY I don't see any way a pubbie could win in NY.
     
  4. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .

    It is not the number of Jewish voters that matters. Just ask anybody in Congress. The lobbyists in Washington speak far louder than any other "constituency" of voters. Lobbying is a BIG, BIG business in Washington. Used to be just Dupont Circle, but now it's practically half the town of Washington that has offices and offices for the sole purpose of swinging votes, producing bills for laws, and so forth.

    So, the "Jewish vote" is important because on a per capita basis, Jews have far more lobbying clout than just about any other group. Hollywood, the media, education, business -- you name it, there are Jewish people owning or running the tops of so many enterprises. How many owners of professional sports franchises are Jewish??

    What was that figure on percentage of Jewish voters again? Whatever it was, it has very little meaning. When you own the store it doesn't really matter what the workers believe or even want, as long as they have a job they go with the flow.


    //
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    They said that about Reagan in 1980. He won NY, and Connecticut, another state given up on by many.


    //
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama will do fine among Jews. Just read an article the other day by the Rabbi at the synagogue across from Obama's house. The guy obviously like Obama a lot; Haaretz, a major Israeli newspaper, ran an article I posted here about Obama's pro-Israel stands; Obama himself has said he wouldn't be where he was without the tremendous support from the Jewish community. Obama will do as well as Kerry or Gore among Jews. As far as Wright's comments go, Obama has and will continue to distance himself from them, just as McCain as distanced himself from the anti-Catholic comments of Hagee. The right will continue to play the race card, but the more they do, the more Latinos and blacks will line up behind Obama, and there will alway be a large number of whites who don't buy the right-wing distortions.
     
  7. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Patters, that wasn't an "article" you posted, it was one persons opinion blog. Haaretz itself has had some negative things to say. I just couldn't pull them up that day, as I already told you.
    Obama has some other trouble coming though--he's allied himself with pro-Palestinian anti-jew groups consistently. Back when he was in Chicago running for Congress he had to distance himself, but now they've come forward to say how he distanced himself. I'll get the cites for that later.

    But really--you shouldn't post stuff like this when it's obvious you're posting from your heart and not the facts.
    And that last line? Offensive as hell. You just called me a racist. Again. And I don't fu(king like it one damn bit.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The right is playing the race card, and has often played it. If you think that means I think you are a racist, that's fine. Maybe you are one; I really don't know you. I certainly know the right is not monolithic, but it's political machine is playing and has always played the card. From the Willie Horton ad to the double standard used against black preachers v. white ones to Reagan's racist campaign (and I can give many examples) that was embraced by the right to the right's acceptance of Apartheid to the right's double standard for crack v. cocaine, there's plenty of evidence of racism on the right. Now, they're trying to pit Jews against blacks, based on what Obama's preacher says. Should we judge all politicians by who they associate with? Should we judge McCain by those who were with him in Vietnam and now say he's a traitor? I think you have to parse things fairly finely to suit your political objectives, and I'm sure you will.
     
  9. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    There you go again. Who came up with Willie Horton? Seriously...answer the question.

    I'm judging Obama by his own words, and by him calling a crazy man his "uncle" and spiritual adviser.

    You're the one trying to pit "jews against blacks", when you continually draw attention to it. You've proven you cannot view Obama without seeing a black man, and you act accordingly.
     
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Ed Koch? A democrat? Sorta like Leiberman is a Democrat...in name only.
     
  11. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Well...I almost think (and that's all it is and all it's worth) is that Koch is more like someone who's party left him, while Liebs is just...I don't know what he is.
    He's as liberal as anyone else on everything but movie sex and Iraq.

    Democrats didn't used to be defined by the liberals. Hell, JFK would get kicked out of the party today, I think. He called for strong defense and tax cuts.
     
  12. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120637042310359413.html?mod=Best of the Web Today
     
  13. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    same cite as above
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Something has happened in this country, it wasn't long ago that saying anything negative about Israel would bring Howls and Outrage from Left Wing America, accusations of racism and anti semitism, now the Far Left Wing themselves are turning into Anti Semites, each day you see more talk against Israel especially among the Blame America Hate Bush Crowd, the far left liberal that once would defend Israel to the death have now themselves become the Anti Semites.

    The Reason for the typical left wing Back Stabbing and Racism, ISRAEL AND AMERICA NOW HAVE THE SAME ENEMY, "THE MUSLIM TERRORIST" SO IN ALL THEIR ANTI AMERICANISM AND HATRED FOR BUSH THESE DISLOYAL PHONY BASTARDS HAVE TURNED ON THE LITTLE COUNTRY THEY ONCE CLAIMED WAS THE SHINNING JEWEL OF THE PLANET, Israel's enemy is also America's Enemy, so the Far Left Wing Liberal is in the process of "Dumping Israel"

    The Same People The Same Thing:
    Many of the same "Phony's" did the exact same thing to poor old Pant Suit Hillary, they stabbed her in the back and leading the army of traitors to turn on the Clintons is the Black Community the very people that the Clintons gave their souls to, these people used to call Bill Clinton, "OUR BILL"
    (racist bastards)

    America will have a democrat government and a democrat president for the next four years, God help America with these Disloyal, Immoral, Back Stabbing, Phony Bastards running this country in a time of war, this November Muslims all over the world will once again be "dancing in the streets" Praise Allah.

    Jewish people like Jon Stewart, Speilberg, Paul Newman, Barbara Walters, Striesand, Mike Wallace, etc, etc Hang Your Heads in SHAME when your Far Left Wing Democrats who will be running America sit silently by while the Muslim Savage Terrorists destroy the land of your ancestors, you dirty back stabbing traitor Anti America mother f-ckers.

    Thank God I am no longer a member of this vicious, crazy, disloyal, hateful, turncoat Democrat pack of rat bastards.

    Dear Pant Suit,
    I can't stomach your grinning buck tooth face or your waddling fat a$s but watching what those phony scumsuckers who claimed to love you and after all you and Blue Dress did for them to see them stick it up your a$s and dump you was disgusting.
    If you do become president the first thing you and Blue Dress should do is to tell them to take their
    "First Black President Award" and shove it right up Prince Obama's a$s, you are now the laughing stock of every KKK clubhouse in America.

    Jewish people still have a lot to say in America, I hope for Israel's sake they can keep Prince Barack Hussein Obama out of the White House but it will be a tough job.
    Yours Truly
    Harry (ex democrat)
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did I ever claim there wasn't racism among the Democrats? But, read about the history of the Republican Party and you'll see that the attempt to play the race card started during the Roosevelt era and became vigorous under Nixon. The Republicans knew the race card was key to winning the south and rebuilding the party. It's quite well documented.

    Wright is certainly not crazy, and Obama deserves credit for not throwing him under the bus. (Have you rejected your liberal friends because you fear you will be guilty by association?) Just as many Catholics still go to church even though they disagree with their ministers on such fundamental issues on gay rights and abortion, Obama has disagreements with his minister. It's a political issue, but outside of politics I don't think it's a big deal.

    Given the history of the right, it's pretty obvious what Newsmax is up to, and the fact is in this forum people like Wright and Jackson have come under far more fire than any white minister. Is that just coincidence? There have been innumerable threads (not by you, as far as I can remember) by a few righties that play up the race issue. Perhaps you're too new to the forum to be aware of that.
     
  16. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So, okay, you admit Willie Horton started from the democrats, but still use that as an argument for republicans being racists? That's very...disturbing.

    And who the fluck brought up Newmax? Good God man. I've already said I thought Newsmax was a complete joke.

    It's one thing to have disagreements with your minister. It's quite another to have him on your campaign staff and refer to him as your 'uncle'.

    And I'd suggest that Jesse Jackson gets criticized because he very often takes very unpopular (and flatly wrong) positions, where he blames whites for everything bad, shakes down corporations for a "donation" and vanishes. Meanwhile, when something that actually matters comes along, he's silent. He also gets a free pass in the media for his racism, a fact that galls me, and I'm sure others.

    Now, I'm not sure why we're talking about Jesse Jackson in a thread about Obama, unless you're trying to change the subject, much like you did in that thread about the good things US soldiers were doing.

    ;)
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nothing in that article shows that Obama is anti-Israel or anti-Jewish. In fact the worse thing said in the article is Obama's "his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict." Many people agree we should be more even handed. As far as him being more upfront, what do you think that means? That he has a secret plan for the destruction of Israel?

    Either you're a careless reader or suggesting that Obama is an anti-semite because the huge and incredibly wellknown website (;)). ElectronicIntifada.com, ran an article by someone with an Arab name, who happens to think Obama is more pro-Palestinian than he let's on. A little research tells me that that site seeks peace in the ME, not the overthrow of Israel, so it has something in common with many of us.

    Maybe I missed your point. Did I?
     
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Say Nothing
    Remember Imus
    They're Waiting
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Okay, good. Newsmax is a right-wing website that in my view plays the race card as needed. Since JFK, racists have largely migrated from the Dems to the Republicans, but it doesn't mean that the Dems are pure, and it doesn't mean that all Republicans are racist. I certainly never said that. My intent was to criticize Republican political angling, not Republicans.

    I have a very conservative, Republican cousin who I'm quite close to. I have a good friend who is very liberal, but his brother is very conservative. When his brother ran for county judge in NYS, my friend gave his campaign money. Was my friend wrong?

    Jesse Jackson still gets criticized for things he said in the 1970s. Meanwhile there are white ministers who say abhorrent things now, such as Hagee who endorsed McCain calling Catholicism a hateful religion, but people like him get a free pass from the right. In fact, white liberal ministers, many of whom are involved in the same causes as Jackson, get a free pass from the right, too.

    Actually, in that thread I merely pointed out that the good news was not good news, but you are right it was wrong of you to bring up that totally irrelevant thread here. ;)
     
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Come on Patters you've been involved in politics. This has beenorchestrated by the Clinton campaign, had it been pubbies it would have happened after the dem convention. This was the only way to derail Obama with the dems.

    Given the way the left waives the bloody shirt of race EVERY election they are having fun watching the hypocracy and animosity among dems in this situation. Obama's long time spirtual advisor is a bigot and anti semite. He said nothing until it was in the mdeis during his campaign. HE gave 22k to the church in 2006. Imagine if a pubbie presidential candidate had given 22k to D Duke? People would go nuts.

    You sem totally unable to deal with this beyond trying to blame the right for the hate on the left and Obama;'s association with bigots.
     

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