Why it will be harder for the Pats to stay on top.

[shatch62]

Analysts have said the Pats could be in trouble because of the talent drain on their coaching staff. In the last few years the Pats lost:
DC Romeo Crennel – Now HC of Cleveland
OC Charlie Weis – Now HC of Notre Dame
DC Eric Mangini – Now HC of the NY Jets
Line Coach Jeff Davidson – Now the Assistant HC of Cleveland
Linebacker Coach Rob Ryan – Now DC of the Raiders

I think the bigger issue is the league is getting full of Belichick disciples. The Buffalo Bills have apparently offered their DC position to former GB DC Jim Bates. If he takes the position that means every team in the AFC East will have a Bill Belichick disciple

Buffalo – DC Jim Bates – Bates was a Secondary Coach under BB in Cleveland
Miami – HC Nick Saban – Saban was the DC under BB in Cleveland
NY Jets – HC Eric Mangini – Mangini was a coached assistant in Cleveland and a Secondary Coach / DC in NE under BB

While Bates has run a 4-3 defense the rest of the coaches run systems similar to BB. Ryan had tried a 3-4 but appears to have gone back to the 4-3 because his LBs stink. It was hard enough in the past to find ILBs to fit the system because colleges don’t produce them. Now the Pats will need to fight with Cleveland, NYJ, Miami and Dallas (the Tuna loves big defenders) for the same players. It will be much harder for the Pats to get a Mike Vrabel if 4 other teams are looking for one.

Do I think the dynasty’s over? No. Just think BB and Pioli have their work cut out for them.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Analysts have said the Pats could be in trouble because of the talent drain on their coaching staff. In the last few years the Pats lost:
DC Romeo Crennel – Now HC of Cleveland
OC Charlie Weis – Now HC of Notre Dame
DC Eric Mangini – Now HC of the NY Jets
Line Coach Jeff Davidson – Now the Assistant HC of Cleveland
Linebacker Coach Rob Ryan – Now DC of the Raiders

I think the bigger issue is the league is getting full of Belichick disciples. The Buffalo Bills have apparently offered their DC position to former GB DC Jim Bates. If he takes the position that means every team in the AFC East will have a Bill Belichick disciple

Buffalo – DC Jim Bates – Bates was a Secondary Coach under BB in Cleveland
Miami – HC Nick Saban – Saban was the DC under BB in Cleveland
NY Jets – HC Eric Mangini – Mangini was a coached assistant in Cleveland and a Secondary Coach / DC in NE under BB

While Bates has run a 4-3 defense the rest of the coaches run systems similar to BB. Ryan had tried a 3-4 but appears to have gone back to the 4-3 because his LBs stink. It was hard enough in the past to find ILBs to fit the system because colleges don’t produce them. Now the Pats will need to fight with Cleveland, NYJ, Miami and Dallas (the Tuna loves big defenders) for the same players. It will be much harder for the Pats to get a Mike Vrabel if 4 other teams are looking for one.

Do I think the dynasty’s over? No. Just think BB and Pioli have their work cut out for them.

Add San Diego and Pittsburgh to that list, perhaps San Francisco though Nolan came from the Ray Lewis program.

 

[marty]

Add San Diego and Pittsburgh to that list, perhaps San Francisco though Nolan came from the Ray Lewis program.

Yea, but just when everyone's figured out BB's 3-4, and implemented schemes against it or have gone to it themselves, BB will have planned a counter offensive, or plans to go in a different direction! The man has proven to be a few steps ahead most of the time so I'm inclined to think he'll do so again. Yea, that Koolaid does taste good

 

[jczxohn1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God save us from the BB-tree AFC East, the division no one wants to play.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jczxohn1 : 01-17-2006 at 10:27 PM.
This was my thought, as well as the 3-4 becoming more common and teams being better at game-planning against it, out of necessity. The thread was lost, but back in Sept. I also posted a thread about the Pats going to a 4-3, primarily due to our early succcess in switching to it against the run when our MLB's were so new to the scheme. It seemed our DL depth was much superior to our LB depth at the time. As the season wore on and our MLB starters solidified, it became obvious the 3-4 would remain our base defense, although we did play both, and the 5-2 as well. With BB focusing on the DL at the end of the season, no doubt working closely with Peese, there shouldn't be much drop-off next year in our ability to present a multi-faceted front. AFCE offenses may know a little more about what we are doing, but the 12th man at home should hamper their adjustments. Away games will be a different story. The good news is they still have to beat you, even if they know what you are doing. The Miami away game will be tough.

All that said, I still agree with those who say the first priority is to beef up the O-line some more. It's the biggest bang for the buck. It makes everyone better. The worst thing we can do to our defense is lose the time-of-possession battle. 3-and-outs are poison. The worst thing that can be said about our offense this past year is "under-utilized talent". And it all comes down to the O-line.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't think the other coaches are the reason why we won't stay on top. In fact, I think we WILL be back on top next year (favorable schedule, and hopefully not the onslaught of injuries like the last 2 years). Our new coaches didn't fumble the ball or throw int's against Denver. Denver beat us fair and square, but I think we self destructed. The defense, even without improvements (though there will be some), played great the last 10 games, and would make us a contender next year. Our offense lost that game, and I don't see that happeneing too many times in the next few years. This team reminds me of the 80's and early 90's 49ers, they may not win a championship EVERY year, but they will be a top team as long as Brady & Bellichick (and Pioli) are around. They will draft and sign enough playmakers every year to reload. Now if only Cassel can become the next Steve Young, lol. That would guarantee our success into the 2010's.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I see Belichick developing players from the draft now more than signing FA's so I think it's a non factor. With the money he'll need to lay out to keep what we have I don't see us dabbling in the FA market much at all except for plucking role players. We'll find our future vrabels and Bruschi's in the draft.

With Brady and a beefed up O-Line I see us at the top for at least the next 5 years...even with a transition period factored in for the linebackers.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Analysts have said the Pats could be in trouble because of the talent drain on their coaching staff. In the last few years the Pats lost:
DC Romeo Crennel – Now HC of Cleveland
OC Charlie Weis – Now HC of Notre Dame
DC Eric Mangini – Now HC of the NY Jets
Line Coach Jeff Davidson – Now the Assistant HC of Cleveland
Linebacker Coach Rob Ryan – Now DC of the Raiders

I think the bigger issue is the league is getting full of Belichick disciples. The Buffalo Bills have apparently offered their DC position to former GB DC Jim Bates. If he takes the position that means every team in the AFC East will have a Bill Belichick disciple

Buffalo – DC Jim Bates – Bates was a Secondary Coach under BB in Cleveland
Miami – HC Nick Saban – Saban was the DC under BB in Cleveland
NY Jets – HC Eric Mangini – Mangini was a coached assistant in Cleveland and a Secondary Coach / DC in NE under BB

While Bates has run a 4-3 defense the rest of the coaches run systems similar to BB. Ryan had tried a 3-4 but appears to have gone back to the 4-3 because his LBs stink. It was hard enough in the past to find ILBs to fit the system because colleges don’t produce them. Now the Pats will need to fight with Cleveland, NYJ, Miami and Dallas (the Tuna loves big defenders) for the same players. It will be much harder for the Pats to get a Mike Vrabel if 4 other teams are looking for one.

Do I think the dynasty’s over? No. Just think BB and Pioli have their work cut out for them.

Coaches aren't automatically destined for greatness because they come out of a tree of a great coach. George Seifert, Steve Mariucci, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes come to mind as coming off the Walsh tree and not being any great shakes.

 

[mgteich]

NEM's emails to the team are worth much more than the collective talents of Weis, Davidson, Crennel, and Mangini! The advice and coaching of three head coaches and an assistent coach were a negative after all. Pass the koolaid or whatever Mike is taking.

Also, I don't believe that blaming the "miscues" and the refs does much good. We were not as good as Denver on either day we played them, and I don't think we were as good as the PITT team of the past three week. That does NOT mean that NEM's scenario isn't correct. Indeed we might be going to Detroit. I do think that this is definitely NOT the time to overestimate the quality of the team at very various positions. Now is the time to question and to upgrade, for 2006 and for the future.

I also don't think the patriots have anything to prove. We've won three Super Bowls this decade with four years to go. This team is in a very small elite club of the top NFL's team ever.

FINALLY
I strongly do indeed agree that the future is bright and that we will improve as we go into 2006 and 2007.

I dont think that the loss of Crennel and Weis had much impact, at all. And I think the loss of Mangini will be a plus.
This season, considering the injury factor, and the first half of the season , has to be considered a success...albeit not a complete success, but none the less, a success.

In late January, while 24 other teams were watching, or out at the golf courses, the Pats were still playing and if not for some miscues and terrible officiating, they might, in all possibility, be boarding a plane for Detroit in a few days.

I see nothing but good signs for the immediate future of this team.....and now they have something to prove.....This will be a bigger, better and much meaner team next season.