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Why is this not making more news?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Wolfpack, May 20, 2010.

  1. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    We have an example of a South Korean ship being attacked and sunk, killing almost 50 men. Last time I checked, South Korea was a formal ally of ours. When it first happened, we weren't exactly sure if it was an attack or an accident or a 50 year old mine or what... so maybe it was wise to let cooler heads prevail. But now, according to the news releases of that past couple days, it seems pretty clear that it was a deliberate act of murder committed by North Korea. And if killing almost 50 sailors isn't an act of war requiring a strong response, I don't know what is. But why is this matter a complete non-issue in the media, blogosphere, etc, etc?

    I'd say this is the international crisis that Biden promised Obama, but it's tough to call something a crisis when no one seems to care (except, I assume, the families of the deceased).
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Funny, I read this at lunch (in the journal) and wondered why it wasn't featured more prominently. When I saw the thread title, I wondered if it might be about this incident.

    Seems pretty important to me.
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Wolf, mark this date down....

    I'm gunna AGREE with you here...This seems like a BFD (Big Fukcin Deal) on the surface (no pun intended)

    From what I've been reading today about the incident is that N. Korea is threatening 'War' if the international community does so much as impose sanctions on them because of this act.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100520/D9FQGC2G0.html

    Now...before we go all George Bush on them, lets get the facts. History has seen it play out that not all wars start because of actual events...some start because of rumors of conflict that never happened. ( I'm talking to YOU Gulf of Tonkin)

    IF N. Korea did this, we need to bust them un the mouth.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Lord-a-mercy, Chicowalker and I are on the same page! :eek: :eek:

    EDIT: Lord-a-mercy, HolyDiver is on the same page too! :eek: :eek: :eek:
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I agree that we should be absoultely 100% sure the North did it before we respond. It's tough to know exactly what the investigation entailed since there really aren't many media reports on the matter, but I believe it was carried out by South Korea and included some torpedo parts (specifically the fin or propeller or something like that) found by a local (civilian) fisherman - but don't quote me on any of the specifics. IMHO, part of the problem comes from the lack of coverage this is receiving.

    To me, the most important player to watch is China. If they get all indignant, proclaiming North Korea's innocence that's one thing. But if they back down and sort of mutter under their breath "gee, Kimmy, ya went a wee bit too far this time" then that would speak volumes.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    I guess WE will have to keep this reporting alive... for now..


    BBC News - South Korean navy ship sinks near sea border with North

    South Korean officials played down earlier reports that it may have been the result of an attack by North Korea.

    There was no sign of the North's military in the area where the ship sank, Yonhap said citing officials.

    A South Korean presidential spokeswoman said it was premature to say what caused the Cheonan to sink.



    I find it odd to say the least that one report from N. Korea claims they are willing to go to War if they are sanctioned because of this event, yet the South Koreans are hesitant to blame them...

    Wouldn't it make more sense for N Korea to simply say, none of our ships did this, and none of our ships were even in the area? Instead of saying "We will go to war if you sanction us!"

    I guess this is the reason we need more reporting on this incident. Something stinks.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  7. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So what's the Pentagon saying? I was actually going to post something this afternoon but the BS was on roids so I didn't bother. I'm glad someone said something, it IS a BFD. SK's one of our allies, NK's just rogue so who knows but I'm not buying their denial.

    The question is, what if anything will the US do about it. Something stinks, then again I always think that way. History comes to mind but I digress;).
  8. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  9. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    As I understand it anything but an intentional act by the NKer's is extremely unlikely. This was a mass murder/act of war or whatever you want to call it and it requires a proportionate response. We have a Navy and they have the world's most sophisticated submarines. I would support using one of those subs to inflict some punishment. I would also support an air strike designed to kill Kim I'll Sung. I do expect our Commander in Chief to consider all scenarios first. Time is NOT of the essence here, acting correctly is.
  10. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hillary's supposed to go to SE Asia, next week I believe.
  11. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Lusitania ?
  12. captain insano

    captain insano Rookie

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    the sooner the nobama admin gets out of the white house the safer we will all be. god help us in the mean time.
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm absolutely shocked. Good on you.

    That said, even if North Korea did it, I'm sure Obama would apologize to them.
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    What Kontra said ... :yeahthat: .
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    IF North Korea did such an act, it would be a defining response from Obama for sure. I really think your prediction is hyperbolic, but from his past actions, it would seem he has no problem with laying the smackdown on some enemies. We had the Somali pirates taken out by snipers, we've had countless drone attacks on Taliban, and Al Qaeda leaders in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled some kind of passive lethal action. Maybe ninjas or some invisible dragons?

    One thing is for SURE...people on this message board seem to be more inquiring and concerned than the media or the pentagon...

    Bravo PatsFans!
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  16. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    It's been proven by investigation that it was not only NOT a mine but it was in fact a TORPEDO from a North Korean ship:


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7132500.ece

    South Korea and Japan both use models built to the similar specs as US Navy torpedoes, it wasn't one of their own nor was it one of the Japanese torpedoes.


    Even our friends to the North are pissed at this action... AFP: Canada calls on North Korea to account for sinking warship

    Here's a shot of the ship...take a look at the midsection under the roof AFP: Canada calls on North Korea to account for sinking warship

    I've seen mine and smaller explosive blasts from WWI and WWII and in the modern era from mines and other outside explosions(USS Cole comes to mind) and there is no way in freaking hell that was a mine! That is a full on torpedo strike!
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    AP Video report

    Report: North responsible for S. Korea disaster

    This report said this happened in March, the investigation has concluded N. Korea's to blame.


    there are also quotes from m the white house and from the UN....


    This sure is odd....
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  18. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    This is the most brazen attack in decades and one that had there not been two US wars going on they wouldn't have tried but it's not out of the ordinary...they do something this massive about once or twice a decade: World News Australia - Timeline: Clashes between Seoul and Pyongyang
  19. Leave No Doubt

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    ....:ditto:....
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Are you all nuts? We go to war and/or kill NK civilians?

    Say NK did the deed and even admits it. We are allies of the SK's as much as they are ours. Why does it always work one way with these deals? Where were the SK troops in Afghanistan? I'm serious. Why are we automatically rushing to bomb the enemies of everyone we have ally status with?

    Why the fu(k don't the SKs take care of their own sh!t? Why don't they go up and knock out a SK frigate or rowboat or whatever they have for a navy and call us if things go crazy after that? Are they worried about something? The Chinese sure don't want any part of this, do they?
  21. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    There is more artillery targeted on Seoul by the North, than was used in all of WWI. Any attack on the North will result in the absolute destruction of Seoul in an instant. Seoul is right on the DMZ, and within NK first strike capability. We know Kim jong il is nuts (and ronery), so the west realizes that retaliatory action will mean all out war, and the loss of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives on that peninsula. That's why the media doesn't talk about it IMO. They know the senstivity of the situation, and likely don't want to inflame anything. It's why we tend to pay NK off with fuel oil, when smaller incidents arise. The problem is, the guy is getting closer to having nukes, as well as more ronrey with each passing day. Plus, a ronery man with nukes, always shoot one off. :D

    YouTube - HQ | I'm So Ronery by Kim Jong - Team America: World Police
  22. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Ignorance is bliss.

    total of 20,308 troops were deployed to Iraq between 2003 and 2008.

    total of 3,429 troops were deployed to Afghanistan since 2001. One soldier killed in action, one wounded.

    Total of 314 deployed to Operation Desert Storm in 1990/91.

    Total of 516 deployed to Somalia to support relief efforts in 1993.

    Total of 312,853 deployed to Vietnam. 4,960 killed and 10,962 wounded.


    Where the hell were they? Alongside the US fighting and dying and supporting.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's gotten good coverage, and the news that it was definitely an attack is only a few days old. Unlike the days of Hearst, the media seems to be acting responsibly and trying not to incite passions while the South Koreans try to figure out a sensible way to respond to this. I doubt if the South Koreans want war.
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  24. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Bullsh!t and if you knew anything about what you're talking about you'd know that those troops were engineers and medics- NON COMBAT! I'll admit that's better than nothing, but your arguement is lame at best. Using that logic, we should have invaded Fiji when Islamofascists bombed a nightclub there, right?

    Again...WHY can't SK take care of this problem themselves while we do the actual fighting for their oil supply in the ME? Focus.

    Vietnam? Really? When was that? Real stretch there.

    Edit: At the request of the United States, President Park Chung Hee of the Republic of Korea agreed to send military units into Vietnam, despite opposition from both the Assembly and the public. In exchange, the United States agreed to provide additional military funds to Korea to modernize its armed forces, totaling about a billion dollars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Korea_Marine_Corps
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  25. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I agree that a response is necessary to this. This was a blatent act of war by an enemy toward an staunch ally of our's. That said, it would be a good idea for a response to not come right away. Obama should complete his Iraq withdrawal as fast as possible and then concentrate on North Korea. Hopefully it won't be too late.

    Sure, our troops are the most battle tested in the world right now. However, they are spread out and opening up a third front would not be the best idea for success. Especially with the general public and national media's ability to change their minds at the drop of a dime about a war. Close out Iraq, let them take over their own country, and turn the Marines on North Korea. With our full attention on Kim Jong-Il, the USMC should be able to CRUSH the North Koreans.
  26. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The North Korean army is more powerful than South Korea. Any attack on the North unsupported would be suicide. The South Koreans know this which is why a direct act of war has not received a response.
  27. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Not True...

    "... the Republic of Korea Armed Forces is one of the largest standing armed forces in the world with a reported personnel strength of 3,695,000 in 2008 (655,000 active force and 3,040,000 regular reserve)...

    The Republic of Korea has one of the highest defense budgets in the world, regularly making the list of top fifteen (as of 2008) (see List of countries by military expenditures). Its capabilities include many sophisticated American and European weapon systems, complemented by a growing and increasingly more advanced indigenous defense manufacturing sector. For example, by taking advantage of the strong local shipbuilding industry, the ROK Navy has embarked on a rigorous modernization plan with ambitions to become a blue-water navy by 2020.)..."


    Republic of Korea Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    More research will show that while the NK army is almost twicw the size they are technologically waaaaay behind SK and most wouls starve or run out of ammo quickly. The navy is a green water force floating on obsolete material and the air force os non-offensive and mainly comprised of air defense artillery and a few wooden biplanes.

    Hardly a cakewalk for the NKs
  28. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The Vietnamese were technologically waaaayyyyy behind the Americans as well. Remind me how that war turned out. North Korea has the fourth largest military in the world and is ruled by an absolute maniac. Like I said before, there's a damn good reason why South Korea hasn't done anything about this.
  29. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Tell the families of the MPs, engineers, medics, transportation, supply, and maintenance personnel who were KILLED IN ACTION and WOUNDED IN ACTION that their time over there is meaningless because some guy with a grudge says that they weren't combat troops.

    Because they weren't COMBAT TROOPS their deployments don't matter therefore don't fit your argument? THEY SENT TROOPS. They sent support personnel, the same personnel who for the past seven years have been under fire and bombed alongside combat personnel. But what the hell does that matter, they don't count there because they aren't combat :rolleyes:


    You wanted an example of when they helped the US you got one. Don't like it, too f-ing bad.

    You have a problem with the treaty of mutual defense, that is fine and dandy but who the hell are you to claim that they haven't held up their end of it by supporting the US when they have done so multiple times in the last 45 years.
    Last edited: May 21, 2010
  30. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    The cable television media are still like Hearst and the yellow journalists.

    But even so they have had other things to beat to death locally in the US that were a more direct impact(no pun intended) than a possible war over on the Korean Peninsula.

    Still gotta talk about the oil spill, still gotta talk about the election on Tuesday, still gotta talk about Obama and Calderon and the state dinner and speeches, still have to talk about Wall St. and legislation against them etc.

    It got mentioned in quick bytes and on the news crawls but unless something major happens to farther tensions it isn't going to bump those "stories" off the shows.

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