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Why is the military getting a bye in budget negotiations????

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are currenlty 963 Admirals and Generals commissioned in the armed forces... each with a palatial house on base, servants, drivers, private C-40 jet and private chefs. Their entourage usually costs the tax payers 1 million dollars annually. There has been a 12% in Generals/admirals increase in the past decade, and at one time the military command structure was descriped as a pyramid and now it is described as a skyscraper.

    The line between general/admiral and defense contractor is often blurred, and upon retirement they just move to another office dealing with the contracts that they wrote..

    The Military is budgeted for over 500 million dollars for bands alone, imagine the legacy costs??

    The military operates 234 golf courses around the world a undisclosed costs, however it is known that the US owns a golf course in South Korea valued at $26 million...

    Simple fix, close the golf courses, make arrangements with local golf course for reduced rates..

    The US Maintains over 700 bases world wide, all of which have to be supplied an staffed... not including the 4100+ bases and military installations that are in use in the US..
    57 Bases in Britain
    287 in Germany
    89 in Italy
    106 in South Korea
    130 in Japan
    31 in Guam

    The military budget is consuming something like 60% of our budget that we know of...

    [​IMG]

    Military Madness is ruining our country, and the choice is to take away from seniors..
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  2. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    And even generals are begging to reduce sending
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    We're broke. There are no sacred cows. EVERYTHING must be cut. That includes defense spending. There is no path to fiscal sustainability without cutting the military/defense budget. It has to come down, and I mean substantially. Let foreign countries pay for their own defense.
  4. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    The military is oddly revered these days, apparently because of Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong, I certainly respect what our servicepeople do. But after all, it IS an all-volunteer military.

    One thing that bugs me is the way Bob Kraft creates all this military worship at Pats games. The occasional tribute is fine, but not every freaking game.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why doesn't anyone ever consider the "legacy costs" of all of these military brass.. their pensions/benefits are off the chart.

    70% of these generals, when they retire, are then employed by defense contractors....

    Robert Gates said one time, "We don’t want the Department of Defense to become a benefits agency that occasionally kills a terrorist.”
  6. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Rookie

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    I don't know how stuff like medicare and food stamps would be cut before the military? What is the point of protecting people who die due to lack of health care or starve to death? Dom't worry, you may die because you can't get health care or food, but nobody will invade and kill you.
  7. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Why does it bother you? I think it's great and I love Bob Kraft for it. There have also been many tributes to police, fireman and others.

    Doesn't the volunteer part make it even more respectful?
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I like it also ... I think it's important to separate the people in the military from the industry of the military ... the people who serve do so without reservation - bravery beyond compare. At the same time i think it's fine to speak of the money ... a separate issue IMO and it needs to be trimmed.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  9. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I'm struggling a bit to explain why this veneration of the military at Pats games makes me a bit uneasy. I just get the feeling it's slightly akin to "worship" of military people simply because it's the military. Not everyone who dons a uniform is a hero, or an example of selfless sacrifice, but that seems to be how they are portrayed.

    My feeling is that people enter military service (or stay in military service), especially these days, as a job or career move vs. a passionate sense of patriotic duty.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  10. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    For the same reason that when the war mongers Bush and Cheney were replaced with Noble Peace Prize winning Obama and company, the military/industrial complex (I know you love that term, even though hysteria and hyperbole are all the rage now) kept getting those big bucks and no bid contracts.

    You want to scratch the surface and point the finger, but only at the side that you think is opposite of yours. One day you might come to realize that the two sides you see are an illusion. The true "two sides" are Americans vs Politicians. not Right vs left or D vs R. The proof is there and you see it, but are too set in what you are being fed.

    Whatever makes you happy and gets you through the day I guess.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  11. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    the difference being Bush/Cheney/Heritage/Halliburton started the fight - based on fraud, never forget - and let the chaos reign to the point of genocide, then bought off the factions with cash to get them to cool it. ... while Obama has largely followed through on his exit strategy ... doing so for a mess the side you favor created. An important distinction you guys consistently leave out of the "yeah, your guys do it too" spiel.

    but please do go on: ...

    LOL... yeah, we've all been reading a lot of this "what does it matter?" tactic above lately from the right, as they reflect on just how inescapably abhorrent their platform has been exposed as all long... on everything from Iraq to climate to surveillance to the election to guns. Why admit being wrong on major issues when you can just duck around the corner, take off your uniform and pretend you hated both sides all along.

    Awesome.

    It's just that... considering your overall body of work here, your apparent rate of accountability sentiment on the L vs. R scale seems have your vessel listing badly to port. So you're quite guilty of buying into that "illusion" yourself.

    You can pretend D vs. R doesn't exist all you like. But you're taking a certain side on almost every issue that I've seen of yours here. Just look at your perpetual tWoT fervor, as well as your oil depletion and climate change denial track record.

    "The proof is there and you see it, but are too set in what you are being fed." ... from you. Just too rich.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure that the military industrial complex is a fad, hysteria or hyperbole.. the lines between the defense contractors and pentagon is muddied and in many ways non existent. Maybe your should review its genesis, when Eisenhower was prophetic in 1961 on his way out of the White House..

    Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

    It is interesting that there are proposals to limit things to seniors, while the military emerges relatively unscathed.. do you really think we need 963 Generals and Admirals, along with their entourage?? Or 700 Military Bases around the world?? Or 243 Military Golf Courses??I cannot even begin to comprehend the logistics to keep them all supplied..

    I will not see the legacy costs of these wars, but there are a lot of men and women who will be accessing Veteran's Benefits in the future, not to mention that 52% of our returning vets are applying for permanent disability.. these are staggering costs that will burden our society in the future.
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While ingesting the morning gruel, came across this article.. something that Congress can get behind, funding the military for more that it asked for..

    Probably laced with pork...

    Read more: Congress completes $633B defense bill | Fox News
  14. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    Halliburton is still winning no bid contracts with Obama, yes or no? Neither side is putting military cuts on the table, yes or no? The exit strategy that Obama followed was made by Bush. Recently Obama has moved 3000 American troops back into Iraq, but somehow this is not news...

    You can call me part of the right all you like. And, when anyone takes in your body of work it is apparent that you are pure partisan hack.

    I have always said that I lean toward the right in a lot of my views, but I would never be accepted as a conservative or republican nor would I want to be. I believe in pro-choice, I believe in gay rights, I have no use for any religion and oppose religion having any influence in our laws, politics or how our country is run.

    I liked Reagan, I also liked Clinton. I think Bush Sr. did a decent job and I disliked Bush Jr. I voted for Obama his first time round.

    I believe in climate change, it has been happening since the earth became a planet. I do not think that mankind has a huge influence on it though. There were ice ages and hot periods way before mankind ever took it's first breath.

    Oil depletion? Yeah, as you use something that is finite then you have depletion. But, I don't agree that you can measure what is left as accurately as you keep saying.

    Bottom line is that you are a partisan hack that can not reply to anyone that does not agree with you without being arrogant, insulting and adding in a lot of crap that was not even being discussed but somehow seems to make you feel superior. Now that is what is rich...
  15. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    I am just wondering why the no bid contracts were such a big thing when Bush was President and now they are not mentioned. They are still happening.

    As for the proposals... neither side is putting military cuts on the table, why do you think that is? I mean, it is obvious to most people that cuts in that area would get the best results budget wise. So we can accept that the republicans are just evil money grubbers bought and paid for by the military industrial complex. But, why then are the democrats not at least attempting to get these much needed cuts (and I do think they are needed)?
  16. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Because you are.

    A hack doesn't know what he's talking about. I do. If I didn't, you'd make a stronger effort to show me where I'm wrong. You don't, because you can't.

    I lean left, and I'm proud of it. But I'm not the one retreating behind "it's all an illusion" now that conservatives' core principles are getting crushed. That would be you.

    In other words, and for the context I'm obviously referring to, you're a denier. Like I said.

    No, instead you insist that because we can't be 100% precise, we shouldn't take any steps to mitigate something that is already slowly happening. So what the **** is the difference? You're still the kind of person who's holding back progress, in this case, in the face of a geological certainty. And considering world production of the best oil hasn't budged upward in almost eight years while price has tripled, it would seem your low-information skepticism is painfully conservative. But I'm the "partisan hack." :rolleyes:

    Arrogance, insult and a lot of crap is what I'm up against. Forgive me for communicating in a method your side's ideology perfected long ago.

    Don't get butthurt again because you actually suggested someone ELSE was "too set in their ways" and got called on it.

    Now go look up what a "partisan hack" actually is, and then feel free to return to the threads in question where you've shown a striking inability to accept basic arithmetic and logic. Then we can surmise - between the two of us - who's the real hack.

    After all, I'm dealing with someone who sums up his entire argument like this:

    Good policy. You should run for office.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  17. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    So that is a yes to Obama and company giving out no bid contracts ( it had to be since it happened) and you may or may not know why the democrats have not proposed military cuts but you don't want to address that as it makes the whole R=D thing look real, and a yes, Obama mostly stayed on course with Bush's plan for Iraq (except for sneaking in 3000 soldiers recently).

    Once again, I do not deny that I lean right. Never have. But, if you are really so versed in my body of work you will see that I was calling this all an "illusion" way before you claimed that the conservatives core principles were getting crushed.

    You are a partisan hack. You will never even consider that a thought that is outside of your own could be correct.

    I am dealing with someone that actually says "Don't get butthurt".

    You are the left's version of: RI Patriots fan. Go read his posts they are the same as yours just from the other side.
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree both sides are complicit, and no where more is that exemplified than the current defense spending bill that gave the Pentagon 74 billion more than they asked for.. it is suspected that most of that money was for pet projects in their districts.

    When Bush did it, the Iraq war was on the front burner and because of the fraudulent lies that led to that crusade everything was magnified, and because the no bid stuff went primarily to Haliburton it was exponentially magnified.

    The issue of no bid contracts comes up now, but the scale is much smaller.. have to remember that Haliburton, Wackenhut and the other bid guys who got no bid contracts also got fined for defrauding the government.. and then continued to get no bid contracts, never missing a beat.
  19. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    thanks for slapping us military folks in the face. maybe the Patriots should have a tribute to car salesmen, or maybe insurance guys.
  20. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    Honestly it comes down to borderline false patriotism - sickly sweet and meaningless in its ritual nature.

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