Why is everyone so conerned with the D?

[harveyw]

Our defense was excellent in the later half of the year and did extremely well during the playoffs. Anyone we got at #21 was not going to be an instant starter on this team (on defense). This role player holes can be filled other ways than through the draft. However, on offense we lost our #2 as well as a few other receivers and BB/SP's track record of UFA WRs has been horrible (ie. Hayes, Terrell, etc..). Also, whenever Dillion is injured or banged up, our offense is not as effective. Now we have some insurance and do not have to pick up people off of the street to play RB. As for the 2 TE picks...I would imagine Thomas is a safety blanket if Graham leaves and provides depth incase Watson or Graham goes down with an injury. Mills is going to be a FB in the NFL and we did have a true FB last year.

Thus far I love the draft and how our depth chart looks. I never expected SP/BB to go this route, but I like the idea of getting TB some weapons. Those who thought that we could simply wait until round 3/4 to get WRs like Haas or Avant to fill the void may be right, but I doubt it. We will have to see how the year plays out. Currently I give our draft a B+ to and A- range. I do this simply because I think we may have taken Thomas a little high while some solid players at positions of a greater need were available.

 

[pats1]

Right on. Some people forget the depth our defense already has in Green, Hill, Banta-Cain, Beisel, Warfield, both Scotts, T-Buck, Mitchell, Sanders, and Gay.

On the flipside, TE, WR, and RB had absolutely NO DEPTH coming into the draft, and offensive line needed the help. The kicker pick was obvious too.


T-Shirt - can you get back to your Kool-Aid stand already! Offer a free chicken little insurance policy along with each sale!

 

[Joker]

Seymour,Warren,Wilfork,Jarvis Green...Marquise Hill in reserve....all young, all proven Super Bowl competitors (except Hill of course)...idiots like .5 dragons are so mystifying stupid it's like they're aliens from another planet....scary Marys fretting about LB's when Vrabel, Colvin and the rest are all relatively young and experienced...AND Tedy back for a full season at full strength. Yeah, poor defense...idiots

 

[harveyw]

Still think we need a return man though...I do not want Hobbs who could a top corner for us getting hurt returning a punt.

 

[oldrover]

I agree with the theme of this whole thread.

 

[pats1]

Still think we need a return man though...I do not want Hobbs who could a top corner for us getting hurt returning a punt.

Maroney can return. Bethel was hurt last year too, so let's see what he can do healthy. Remember those returns in 2003 (Indy) and 2004 (Cleveland)?

 

[Remix 6]

if we take a return man..theres Gerris McPhearson..ran a 4.21! for Maryland according to their site..his father played for us.. TJ Rushing i hear is a nice return man..both are CBs.

 

[shmessy]

Right on. Some people forget the depth our defense already has in Green, Hill, Banta-Cain, Beisel, Warfield, both Scotts, T-Buck, Mitchell, Sanders, and Gay.

On the flipside, TE, WR, and RB had absolutely NO DEPTH coming into the draft, and offensive line needed the help. The kicker pick was obvious too.


T-Shirt - can you get back to your Kool-Aid stand already! Offer a free chicken little insurance policy along with each sale!

1) "Depth at LB": - the only two you list are Beisel and Banta-Cain - not lifting my spirits.

2) T-Shirt is one of the handful of posters here whom I seek out to read because of his insights. I can't recall a darn thing from any of your posts.

 

[shmessy]

Seymour,Warren,Wilfork,Jarvis Green...Marquise Hill in reserve....all young, all proven Super Bowl competitors (except Hill of course)...idiots like .5 dragons are so mystifying stupid it's like they're aliens from another planet....scary Marys fretting about LB's when Vrabel, Colvin and the rest are all relatively young and experienced...AND Tedy back for a full season at full strength. Yeah, poor defense...idiots

LB situation IS a problem. Less of one if we switch to a 4-3. We need ILB's if we're gonna stay in a 3-4.

I'm ecstatic about the DL and am very satisfied with the secondary.

 

[onegameatatime]

Agree with the tenor of the thread.

We already had depth at DL and DB. The problem last year was not so much depth, just that any team can have only so many IRs at DB -- 7, if I remember correctly last year. We got bumped from the playoffs because of turnovers, not defense -- Denver had 2 one-yard drives when you count the trunover and the bogus interference call.

We are "adding" guys like Guss Scott and Gay, and have added Warfield. Big wild card is whether Rodney can come back and play at the highest level.

We could use a little depth at LB, but Beisel, TBC, and Claridge could help provide some. Claridge was a middle round guy last year. BB could think that Beisel will improve after learning the system, and maybe he thinks TBC is ready to step up.

With the salary cap increase, there will be fewer than usual cuts in June, but I see the draft as step 2 of 3 in acquiring players.

 

[OntarioPatsFan]

No one seems to have mentioned Claridge. I wonder if the coaching staff has that much confidence in him developing as a solid contributer. Has anyone heard how is rehab is progressing? Or what the hell he's up to? Or if he's still even with the team?

 

[shmessy]

Agree with the tenor of the thread.

We already had depth at DL and DB. The problem last year was not so much depth, just that any team can have only so many IRs at DB -- 7, if I remember correctly last year. We got bumped from the playoffs because of turnovers, not defense -- Denver had 2 one-yard drives when you count the trunover and the bogus interference call.

We are "adding" guys like Guss Scott and Gay, and have added Warfield. Big wild card is whether Rodney can come back and play at the highest level.

We could use a little depth at LB, but Beisel, TBC, and Claridge could help provide some. Claridge was a middle round guy last year. BB could think that Beisel will improve after learning the system, and maybe he thinks TBC is ready to step up.

With the salary cap increase, there will be fewer than usual cuts in June, but I see the draft as step 2 of 3 in acquiring players.

My point, is that we have plenty of OLB's. What we need are ILB's. This draft was generally acknowledged to be the best and deepest ILB draft in the past decade. This is like a starving man passing up a 5 star buffet.

....and for what a KICKER?????????

 

[Boston Boxer]

TBC and Klecko need to ***** or get off the pot. Are they going to play some meaningful minutes this year or just collect pay checks. This draft tells me BB and staff think we are ok. I will take their word for it.

 

[SamBamsFan]

Still think we need a return man though...I do not want Hobbs who could a top corner for us getting hurt returning a punt.

I had Adam Jennings from THE Fresno St going to us in the 7th in my mock. It'd be nice to right once this weekend.

Oops, just saw that he was picked.

 

[pats1]

1) "Depth at LB": - the only two you list are Beisel and Banta-Cain - not lifting my spirits.

There was more depth defensively than offensively coming into the draft.

2) T-Shirt is one of the handful of posters here whom I seek out to read because of his insights. I can't recall a darn thing from any of your posts.

It's a bit of sarcasm. I wasn't bashing T-Shirt at all. He has "Standing behind the counter handing out Kool-Aid to the babbling masses" as his location. I'm saying with this latest little bout of "What the hell are the Pats doing?" he needs to hand out those Chicken Little Insurance policies to those "sky are falling" people.

You're right. I don't bring a lot of insight. Hell, neither does Mike Reiss. Does that make him a bad writer? Of course not. He's so well respected around here because he brings info first, timely, and with no nonsense. By the same token, you may remember many things that Borges says - but again, they don't make him a great writer. T-Shirt is a cut above 99.9% of the posters.

 

[Urgent]

Depth at defense is deep at a couple specific positions, but not across the board.

NT - the team thrives when there is a solid two-NT rotation. Washington and Wilfork were excellent together. Klecko is by no means a real NT in this system. Mike Wright isn't bad, but at 295 pounds is not a classic run-stuffing NT. There are multiple players who can play passing-situation NT - Seymour, Green, Klecko, Wright. Just none that are good run-stuffing NT's.

Bypassing Oshinowo for a fourth TE/third FB is an interesting comparison.

OLB - There are two solid starters here assuming that Vrabel is an OLB. TBC has been on the team long enough for us, at least, to form an opinion. He's been a good special teams guy but done very little at OLB. Remember last season that Vrabel was injured on special teams in the preseason. TBC did nothing with that opportunity. When Vrabel was moved inside, TBC did nothing in relief of McGinest or Colvin.

ILB - Bruschi has been forced into the primary run-stuffing Ted Johnson role and out of the blitz/cover role that Vrabel took over last year. Beisel showed mild improvement, but didn't look good in the Miami game when he played a lot more. The depth is Claridge, who was injured his rookie season, former late round draft pick, and hasn't shown a thing in a game situation. If Bruschi is injured, and playing inside in his 30's, it's hard to count on him for 16 games, what happens?

CB - plenty of depth, if you call on Poteat and guys like that.

S - plenty of depth, although most of the players have shown a recent history of injuries - Harrison, Scott, Sanders - and the back-ups are really ST specialists.

Compare to depth where the Patriots have selected:

RB - all of last year's players return, with Dillon, Faulk, Pass, and Evans all showing the ability to start as a lead back, but Dillon, Faulk, and Pass each facing injuries last season.
TE - two recent first-round picks, both versatile, solid starters. Need a third tight end, preferably a blocking specialist.
FB - Pass has been versatile, and can step in as feature back; Evans impressed in his first opportunity.
OL - Light, Kaczur, Gorin all have starting experience, Britt was a highly-rated rookie coming off a leg injury. The Patriots typically carry three tackles.
WR - clearly need a top player, Jackson is a solid pick, good value, at a position of need.

 

[Hawg 73]

I think there is plenty to be nervous about on this D. McGinest is in Cleveland. That is a lot of leadership. Bruschi is 33, Vrabel 31 and Harrison if he ever plays again 33. Plus, how can anyone be sure that Harrison will ever be Rodney Harrison again? The rest of the linebacking corp has one solid starter (Colvin),one questionable starter (Beisel) and a bunch of I don't knows (Claridge, Banta-Cain,Alexander, Davis, Izzo). Throw in the fact that this team has played a lot of extra games over the years due to the SB's and you have a lot of games on some older legs. It would have been nice to think the Pats won't have to gamble that 33 yr Tedy Bruschi, 31 Mike Vrabel will be injury free. Because seriously, if one of those two go down who do you have confidence in? And the secondary runs the very possible risk of playing without Harrison for the entire season. It COULD happen. So what depth do they have at SS? I know Belichick and Pioli know a lot more of what they have than we do. But, as a fan I get nervous with the perceived lack of depth and old legs on the current Pats D.

 

[CrazyDave]

My point, is that we have plenty of OLB's. What we need are ILB's. This draft was generally acknowledged to be the best and deepest ILB draft in the past decade. This is like a starving man passing up a 5 star buffet.

....and for what a KICKER?????????

i was under the impression that this draft was very weak at ILB.

 

[pats1]

I think there is plenty to be nervous about on this D. McGinest is in Cleveland. That is a lot of leadership.

There has to be new leaders sometimes. Ty Warren wants to step up. It's not like when Cox, Phifer, T.J., Patten, etc. left the team suffered because a lack of leadership.

Bruschi is 33, Vrabel 31 and Harrison if he ever plays again 33. Plus, how can anyone be sure that Harrison will ever be Rodney Harrison again? The rest of the linebacking corp has one solid starter (Colvin),one questionable starter (Beisel) and a bunch of I don't knows (Claridge, Banta-Cain,Alexander, Davis, Izzo). Throw in the fact that this team has played a lot of extra games over the years due to the SB's and you have a lot of games on some older legs. It would have been nice to think the Pats won't have to gamble that 33 yr Tedy Bruschi, 31 Mike Vrabel will be injury free. Because seriously, if one of those two go down who do you have confidence in? And the secondary runs the very possible risk of playing without Harrison for the entire season. It COULD happen.

Yes, it COULD happen, but Rodney has been reportedly going ahead of schedule on his rehab. IMO, at most, he'll go on the PUP. At best, we'll see him around in the preseason.

So what depth do they have at SS? I know Belichick and Pioli know a lot more of what they have than we do. But, as a fan I get nervous with the perceived lack of depth and old legs on the current Pats D.

There's a lot of young legs around too. Seymour? Warren? Wilfork? Colvin's still young. Wilson? Samuel? Hobbs? Gay?

At SS, there's Hawkins, who was a more-than-adequate starter at the end of last season. There's also good 'ol Tebucky Jones, as well as special team star Mel Mitchell and promising youngster James Sanders.