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Why I support torture...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    You guys know those 21 scumbags that have been arrested in Great Britain..? The ones who were plotting to muder thousands of innocent civilians...? I wish our authorities (or British authorites) had the authority to rough them up in order to get them to spill the names of their co-conspirators. Some people think there could be as many as 50 men involved in the plot, which means over half the conspirators are still out there.

    Too bad the ACLU and Amensty International would have a conniption.
     
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't worry the chickens are coming home to roost, the American people will never allow a slobbering Jimmy Sissy Carter Clone to run this country.

    The democratic party has allowed the far left wing freaks to take over and they will pay dearly for it, todays news is just another nail in their coffin, the people know that the "Uncle Teddy Gang" is not capable of protecting the country or running a war.

    REMEMBER 9/11 NEVER FORGET IT
     
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yeah, because that would work. They'd yell out every name in the phone book every time you put the electrodes on their balls and we'd be spending our days chasing false leads. Torture yields information alright, just not accurate information.
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The middle east Muslims laugh their a$ses off at what we call torture, those bastards can show you what real torture is, Saddam & his demented sons were masters at it, that family of dogs invented things that would make Count Dracula sick.
     
  5. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Your erroneous statement has been refuted time and again. Torture is a very effective way of interrogation.
     
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  6. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    For the record, Jimmy Carter served on a submarine in the Navy as a communications officer, sonar officer, electronics officer, gunnery officer and supply officer. He served for 7 years in the armed services. During his presidency he presided over many nations as a negotiator and arbitrator, brokering peace in the Middle East. After his presidency he again brokered a peace settlement in Haiti as planes were deployed and bombs were minutes from being dropped. Yes, not all of his diplomacy worked, but the U.S was a far safer place during his presidency due to his work as a diplomat. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Compare that to your hero, W. Who invades a nations on hunches. Failed to pass a physical during his enlistment in the National Guard, which he used as a "fortunate son" excuse to not serve in Vietnam. A sissy, he was a freakin' cheerleader.
     
  7. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Why do you ruin a post which is very well written for the first 80% (despite some things with which I disagree) by giving such a ridiculously juvenile and immature finish...?
     
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  8. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I believe your statement is erronuous and has been refuted, but I just don't care. Let me ask you, do you only support torture once someone has been convicted, or as soon as they're in custody? How guilty does someone have to seem before you torture them, or can we do it routinely for all criminal suspects? We might have gotten a conviction of OJ if only we could have tortured a confession out of him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't care if Carter won WWII all by himself the man was a disaster as a President.
    We aren't fighting a Uniformed Geneva Conference army today with rules and regulations we at war with a Fanatical Force Of Murdering Savages, they aren't trying to kill our soldiers they are trying to kill our women and children, "your family", and the last thing we need are people with "Jimmy Carter Mindsets" trying to protect us.

    Our enemy is now all over the world, they are patient, and they are bloodthirsty animals, they will be trying to kill your family for many years to come, we don't want the Jimmy Carters of our society helping them.

    Thank God Bush has never caved in to the "Bleating Liberals".
     
  11. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Ahhhhhh, did you read the post that I was responding to?
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The post you were responding to was one of the most intelligent pieces of literature I have ever read, it should go down in "Forum History" for all future generations to study.
    :rocker: "yup it was wonderful"
     
  13. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I support torture of those actively planning to destroy our governments, our countries and our entire way of life when there is a preponderance of evidence against them. Furthermore, as per Abraham Lincoln, such people are not entitled to constitutional protection. When you plot to destroy the United States government, you forfeit your rights to have that government protect you.
    I think you've misunderstood me. I don't support torture of common criminals - even those accused of such heinous crimes as rape or murder. But those trying to erase our entire existence from the face of the planet are fair game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yes I did.
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some forms of interrogation are more effective than others, we should only persue effectove means of interrogation. Then there is the issue of who is defining what is torture and what is not. My reading show vastly different definitions of what sorts of activities are torture.

    For example Waterboarding, no physical harm to the person yet they are terrified and usually start spilling their gut within 5 minutes. This was used on Kahlid Sheik Mohammed, and yeilded valuable intel. This sort of stress testing is used by the military on our troops as part of their training. Yet some define this as torture.

    Any opinion on waterboarding as torture?
     
  16. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Ok, that's certainly much better (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm glad you don't support torture in domestic cases). But what about the rest of my question - how do you protect the innocent people who might have been snared up in a combat zone? Should we torture every suspect at Guantanamo? Surely at least 1% of them are innocent.

    What if you were traveling in France with your family when a bomb went off, you were picked up by the police as suspects, and they started torturing you? Would you support them?
     
  17. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm not familiar with waterboarding, but if your assertion is true that it poses no danger, then it would be OK in extreme cases only (the so-called "hidden bomb" scenario).
     
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  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah but ya gotta admit... O.J. deserves to be smacked upside the head. That aside, I do believe the U.S. Constitution should still afford full rights and protection to domestic criminals (assuming they are not trying to overthrow the united States Government).
    A situation at Guantanamo..? No, I would not advocate blanket torture. Too many people involved, too vague. And even using today's example, I wouldn't just want to just arbitrarily torture all 21 of the guys that have been arrested thus far. But I would certainly have no problem with taking the ringleaders and getting them to "name names".

    See, this is a pretty weak response. If you want to debate the point, you have to stay in the realm of realism. There is absolutely no realistic set of circumstances whatsoever by which French authorities would have a preponderance of evidence against me that I was the ringleader of a terrorist organization planning mass destruction and civilian casualities.

    EDIT: There's also absolutely no realistic set of circumstances by which I would be visiting France, but that's besides the point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you here. I would point out that some (ACLU eg) define this as torture. When the word torture I want to know what wxactly they are refering to.
     
  20. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    We often don't have a "preponderance of evidence" against some of the terrorism suspects WE have in custody. Most are guilty, but some were just near a battlefield, some just owned a gun, and some may have looked at a GI the wrong way. Same thing with you... and it could be the UK or anywhere else in the world for that matter... there may be a circumstance where you're falsely accused of a crime, and that crime could be terrorism related. Can they immediately start with the whirling needles?
     

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