Why have we heard nothing about Wilfork?

[50-yard-line]

Belichick has been shutting down Hilton and Luck for years long before Revis entered the equation. Belichick has shut down the other teams top offensive weapon with Sterling Moore before. Revis is always a factor but can you really sit here and say we would not have won the Super Bowl if not for Revis? I cannot, had we been forced to play Green Bay then yeah he would have been key but against a team with no true #1 WR he is just covering 1 of 4-5 potential targets.

I would argue that Harmon's pick against Baltimore was directly related to Revis. Flacco wouldn't even look his way, which allowed Harmon to cheat behind Ryan.

Revis is way more important to this defense than any other player on the team, imo, especially when you consider that there are maybe 2-4 guys in the league who can do what he does. Sherman, Haden, Peterson...

I mean, look how much different the Pats D became the year they stole Talib. They immediately got more aggressive.

Please keep Revis. I love DMac, too, but I'd put a tighter limit on him than on Revis.

I truly adore VW as a Pat. The guy's got it all - personality +, his wife is a blast, team leader, freak athlete...

But the truth is painfully obvious: his on-field contribution can be adequately replaced much more cheaply than his current contract. He is no longer in the elite (Suh, Ngata, Campbell) ranks.

 

[Brady6]

I would argue that Harmon's pick against Baltimore was directly related to Revis. Flacco wouldn't even look his way, which allowed Harmon to cheat behind Ryan.

Revis is way more important to this defense than any other player on the team, imo, especially when you consider that there are maybe 2-4 guys in the league who can do what he does. Sherman, Haden, Peterson...

I mean, look how much different the Pats D became the year they stole Talib. They immediately got more aggressive.

Please keep Revis. I love DMac, too, but I'd put a tighter limit on him than on Revis.

I truly adore VW as a Pat. The guy's got it all - personality +, his wife is a blast, team leader, freak athlete...

But the truth is painfully obvious: his on-field contribution can be adequately replaced much more cheaply than his current contract. He is no longer in the elite (Suh, Ngata, Campbell) ranks.

I'm not debating the value of Darrelle Revis, he is a huge factor but I do not think considering the route to the SB this season that he was the difference between winning and losing. Did he help hell yeah as he should considering the amount of money he makes. I'm not going to jump off a bridge if he walks though. As I'm sure you know and anyone who has ever played the game knows football is a team game. I'm not going to compromise the strength and depth of the team for 1 player in a league with the highest injury rate of any pro sport.

 

[Ivan]

There are those on this board who feel the run D goes in the tank if Vince walks.

Everyone wants Vince back. Some are ok with his current contract. Others feel he needs to restructure.

The stats show that the run D was statistically above-average but poor in short yardage situations.

As long as they find adequate replacements, the run D will be ok w/o VW.

Fair enough. I'm one who feels they have to address the run defense whether Vince comes back or not, even though they won a Lombardi they still have significant areas to address. I am a staunch defender of VW but that is really just in response to those who try to say he played poorly and is just another guy, neither are true but what is true is that he is no longer a premier player and he has reached a point where 4 million a season makes much more sense than 9 does. I agree that they can fix the run defense with a couple of good additions but I also think their run D stats were skewed by the Jets game when they played on Thursday after losing Mayo on Sunday and scheme tactics where they dared teams to run and spent considerable time in sub packages focused upon stopping great QBs. I dont think Belichick wants to give up the yards on the ground but still prioritizes the pass D. However neither apply to short yardage situations unless you are playing Manning who will always throw it, or unless there are 20 second left in the Super Bowl and the opponent has the best short yardage back in football and Pete Carroll on the sideline...... Good Bless him, he's now my second favorite coach of all time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fair enough. I'm one who feels they have to address the run defense whether Vince comes back or not, even though they won a Lombardi they still have significant areas to address. I am a staunch defender of VW but that is really just in response to those who try to say he played poorly and is just another guy, neither are true but what is true is that he is no longer a premier player and he has reached a point where 4 million a season makes much more sense than 9 does.
I agree that they can fix the run defense with a couple of good additions but I also think their run D stats were skewed by the Jets game when they played on Thursday after losing Mayo on Sunday and scheme tactics where they dared teams to run and spent considerable time in sub packages focused upon stopping great QBs.

VW did not play poorly last year. He was fine. Considering for the first 8 games they lost Mayo, didn't have Sigila, Branch and VW was just getting his sea legs back the run D was very average. With better personnel IMO the run D in the last 8 game was much better. For the right price VW is part of the solution- not the problem. Personally I think they need a little more athleticism & quickness on the line- something at 34 years old, VW does not have in spades. Keep in mind they played in sub packages <70% of the time so they are already operating at a matchup disadvantage at the LoS.

I dont think Belichick wants to give up the yards on the ground but still prioritizes the pass D. However neither apply to short yardage situations unless you are playing Manning who will always throw it, or unless there are 20 second left in the Super Bowl and the opponent has the best short yardage back in football and Pete Carroll on the sideline...... Good Bless him, he's now my second favorite coach of all time.

Yep.

 

[Ivan]

VW did not play poorly last year. He was fine. Considering for the first 8 games they lost Mayo, didn't have Sigila, Branch and VW was just getting his sea legs back the run D was very average. With better personnel IMO the run D in the last 8 game was much better. For the right price VW is part of the solution- not the problem. Personally I think they need a little more athleticism & quickness on the line- something at 34 years old, VW does not have in spades. Keep in mind they played in sub packages <70% of the time so they are already operating at a matchup disadvantage at the LoS.



Yep.

I agree completely. I would offer VW the same kind of deal that Revis had in Tampa but at a much lower number. Offer him 4.5 million a season with a 1 million bonus for a SB win that rolls over each season that he makes the final roster. He would still make decent money and he could play run stuffer for them and provide great leadership. Great player, I hope he goes out the right way.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

I would argue that Harmon's pick against Baltimore was directly related to Revis. Flacco wouldn't even look his way, which allowed Harmon to cheat behind Ryan.

Revis is way more important to this defense than any other player on the team, imo, especially when you consider that there are maybe 2-4 guys in the league who can do what he does. Sherman, Haden, Peterson...

I mean, look how much different the Pats D became the year they stole Talib. They immediately got more aggressive.

Please keep Revis. I love DMac, too, but I'd put a tighter limit on him than on Revis.

I truly adore VW as a Pat. The guy's got it all - personality +, his wife is a blast, team leader, freak athlete...

But the truth is painfully obvious: his on-field contribution can be adequately replaced much more cheaply than his current contract. He is no longer in the elite (Suh, Ngata, Campbell) ranks.

Yea it pains me to admit it too.. what more could you ask of that guy, he's been a pillar on the defensive line for over a decade at an elite level.. but just like they had to move on from Seymour to make way for a young, rising star in Vince, it may be time for them to move on from Vince for a young, rising star like McCourty, Jones, Hightower, Collins etc etc..

I could never say that to his face though, I would be the worst GM ever and my teams would eventually collapse like the Saints are doing because I wouldn't be able to sit those types of guys down like Vince and tell him that we're letting him go

 

[IllegalContact]

The simple fact of the matter is that the Pats need the $8 million in cap space. There's no way they pay the $4.5 million roster bonus to Wilfork on Monday. When they don't pay him the option, he's a free agent.

Now, what price would make sense to offer a 34 year old nose tackle veteran free agent? Vet minimum? Something in that range. Why insult the guy?

The best solution is for Vince to hold a press conference in Foxboro on Friday and announce his retirement. Next best solution is to simply not pick up the option bonus. He's not going to be the only formerly great player cut loose from NFL teams this week. Haggling over some insulting renegotiation option (aka "asking him to take a pay cut") seems like the worst possible ending. We all know how Vince is going to react to that one. Let the man go out on top with respect and a ring. His deal last year was structured as a one-last-hurrah deal. He got every dime of incentives and a frickin' Super Bowl ring. Pretty frickin' good last-hurrah, if you ask me. Is it ever going to end better than that?

The pats can't stop the run without Wilfork

Without Wilfork, Revis will be a waste of money since most teams will be running for 200 yards per game

 

[Patriots1364life]

Wilfork is not an 8.5 million tackle. Isnt he making more then dareus? I love the big guy but he is in the 3 to 4 million dollar range.

 

[hwc]

Everyone wants Vince back.

I don't. I think it's the storybook ending to an awesome Patriot career. I don't see any benefit to the Pats in chasing declining performance for another year with reduced pay. It'st he perfect time to move on.

 

[IllegalContact]

Pretty funny that this thread is coeexisting with the 8M vs 12M thread

now you know why they want the 12M instead of the 8M

 

[hwc]

The pats can't stop the run without Wilfork

The Pats can't stop the run with Wilfork. That's what happens when 34 year old players decline. The Pats need to upgrade their play at DT, not sit tight and watch it continue to decline.

I'm not putting it all on Wilfork, but $8 million of cap space is a major opportunity cost.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't. I think it's the storybook ending to an awesome Patriot career. I don't see any benefit to the Pats in chasing declining performance for another year with reduced pay. It'st he perfect time to move on.

only if you can prove you can stop the run without him..........siliga and jones/easley going to do the job?

 

[IllegalContact]

The Pats can't stop the run with Wilfork. That's what happens when 34 year old players decline. The Pats need to upgrade their play at DT, not sit tight and watch it continue to decline.

I'm not putting it all on Wilfork, but $8 million of cap space is a major opportunity cost.

LOL.......letting him go will not be an upgrade

 

[Patriots1364life]

Bring him back at a reduced salary. If he doesnt want that then cut him. Havent we gone through this with former pats?

 

[Ivan]

I don't. I think it's the storybook ending to an awesome Patriot career. I don't see any benefit to the Pats in chasing declining performance for another year with reduced pay. It'st he perfect time to move on.

You didn't want him back last year either, and that would have been a big mistake.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree completely. I would offer VW the same kind of deal that Revis had in Tampa but at a much lower number. Offer him 4.5 million a season with a 1 million bonus for a SB win that rolls over each season that he makes the final roster. He would still make decent money and he could play run stuffer for them and provide great leadership. Great player, I hope he goes out the right way.

Me too. Convert the roster bonus due on the 10th into 2015 salary and roll in LTBE incentives into a 2015 deal. Maybe tack on some of the contract to a 2016 if they think it'll help them. In parallel draft his replacement and let VW mentor the kid this year. When BB signed Traylor in 2004 he was 35. In 2003 Ted Washington was 35. There is a history of 35 year old nose tackles playing here. What there isn't a history of is paying them big money.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't. I think it's the storybook ending to an awesome Patriot career. I don't see any benefit to the Pats in chasing declining performance for another year with reduced pay. It'st he perfect time to move on.

Even at a reduced amount and here for a year to mentor a rookie DT? VW has more left in the tank. Hes not what he was but he certainly is not done.

 

[hwc]

How does converting salary/bonus into 2016 dead money help manage the cap with a declining veteran? Then, you cut him and take a dead money hit, hurting your cap for TWO years.

Vince retires this weekend. The Pats eat $433K of dead money, but pick up $8.1 million in cap space. It's the perfect time for the Pats. It's the perfect time for Vince: he just got the bonus victory lap extra year on the back end of his career, earned every penny of performance incentives, got a big paycheck, and is sporting a new SuperBowl ring. When is it ever going to be a better time for Vince?

Or, he can force the Pats to release him on Monday, sign with some crap team for $1.5 million, and end his career like Logan Mankins.

You tell me? It's so obvious that I would be shocked if Belichick hasn't already had a heart-t0-heart with Vince. Clearly the Pats aren't paying him his roster bonus on Monday. We haven't heard an explosion from Vince and Bianca.

 

[50-yard-line]

I'm not debating the value of Darrelle Revis, he is a huge factor but I do not think considering the route to the SB this season that he was the difference between winning and losing. Did he help hell yeah as he should considering the amount of money he makes. I'm not going to jump off a bridge if he walks though. As I'm sure you know and anyone who has ever played the game knows football is a team game. I'm not going to compromise the strength and depth of the team for 1 player in a league with the highest injury rate of any pro sport.

Well, you're not compromising anything...and we both agree that BB won't, either. So I'm not going to argue. that point.

But would you pay Wilfork 8.5? Does he really maintain that value at this time (and isn't it the same thing: compromising the strength of the team)?

I don't know. Maybe he's worth it, given his leadership and what's hidden in the coach's tapes. Glad BB has to make the decision instead of me because letting go of Big Vince would break my heart.

 

[hwc]

It's never easy. I can't imagine that telling Troy Polamalu to either retire or get released is easy on the folks in Pittsburgh this week. Unfortunately, as long as you have a hard salary cap, these are tough decisions that have to be made by good teams.