Welcome to PatsFans.com

why giving up a second rounder for Welker was Genuis!!!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by brady199, May 2, 2007.

?

Was Welker worth a 2nd & 7th Pick?

  1. yes

    31 vote(s)
    91.2%
  2. no

    3 vote(s)
    8.8%
  1. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -1

    At first I was shocked when i heard the pats were giving up a second rounder, for Welker.
    I thought is was way to much to give up, after further deliberation here's why it was a good move.

    1. He is entering the prime of his career
    2. He is a proven nfl player
    3. Obviously his return game is highly valued
    4. And the Biggest Reason of all is - THIS DRAFT SUCKED, and a late 2nd round is almost the same value as an early 3rd round, and in this draft from what everyone is saying, Maybe you get a player of 4th or 5th round talent with that selection.

    yeah and i know we threw in a 7th round pick as well, but with all our picks those guys didn't have a good chance to make this team anyways.:rocker:
  2. naclone

    naclone Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    it was a great deal even before you factor all that in. bottom line is that draft picks aren't nearly as valuable as fans want to believe they are. fans look at day one picks and see pro bowlers just waiting to be picked up. that's almost never how it turns out. welker is a proven talent with added value relative to how his skills fit our system. and people here had a nutty about us drafting guys in the 5th and 6th rounds who would have gone undrafted. who exactly do they think we would have picked at the end of the 7th round Miami snatched away with that pick? i would say with 100% certainty that we would have used that pick on one of the guys we signed as an UDFA. so that pick was essentially worthless no matter how you look at it.

    But Welker is worth a second in any draft. More so in this one, yeah.
  3. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,001
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ratings:
    +40 / 0 / -1

    Wasn't it worth it just to give the Jets the impression that we are scared of them?
  4. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    he's fairly unique and he would have probably re-signed with Miami if they didn't get him now. that's the reason it was a good move.

    I'd have much rather they save the 2nd rounder and sign a similar player or wait till next year. the problem was that similar players aren't frequent and he probably wouldn't have been available next year.

    and you comment #4, the biggest reason as you put it, is in fact your worst reason. They could have done what they did with both their 1st and 3rd picks and traded it for a 2nd next year.

    *edit* rereading this post, the tone is a little rude. rather than rewrite it i'll just say that i didn't mean to be a jerk.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  5. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I'm honestly not trying to bring up sour grapes, but you guys are WAY to high on him. Calling him proven may be a little bit of a stretch seeing as how he averages around 35 catches and 500 yards a year and has all of 1 NFL TD catch.

    Sure he is a nice player out of the slot and can make some 3rd down catches, but he is nothing more than average. He hardly ever breaks big returns and muffs a lot of punts.

    I was thrilled we got a 2nd round pick for Wes and we were able to sure up our line with that pick we got from you.

    And please, don't give me that garabge that he was the #1 last year. Even though I don't like stats, Wes was 3rd in terms of production on our team (even in his career year and Chambers and Booker's worst years.)

    I think Wes is looking at being your 4th or 5th receiver. If you think that's worth a 2nd and a 7th, then okay.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  6. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    How could we know if he is? We haven't even seen him play yet.
  7. primetime

    primetime Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    5,033
    Likes Received:
    57
    Ratings:
    +160 / 22 / -10

    #18 Jersey

    His statistical averages can be thrown out because he didn't really emerge as a wide receiver until last year, when his statistics were good enough to make him the leading receiver on the Patriots. The Lions shouldn't call Mike Furrey proven because besides last year he caught barely anything and even played safety for a year? Please.

    He doesn't need to catch touchdown passes, Randy Moss will be more than capable of that. But as a safety net out of the slot, he's real tough to cover.
  8. naclone

    naclone Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    maybe you're right, and he's not "proven", but New England has seen him relative to pro competition (as opposed to someone coming out in the draft). what he did for Miami has little baring on what he'll do for New England. The Patriots will put him in a position to accentuate his skill set. They obviously see something in the kid that they think will translate to their system. and that's good enough for me.
  9. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Okay I can understand this argument. But the thing is we can't really argue that. We won't really know until the season is in full swing. But to call it genious at this point is quite a stretch.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  10. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    23,364
    Likes Received:
    490
    Ratings:
    +1,185 / 15 / -11

    Disable Jersey

    Contrast this poll with the earlier polls on Wanker when many here did not like the move. The most hilarious complaint back then was over giving away a 7th round pick.
  11. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think you are underestimating Welker. If you look at his physical skill set coming out of college, would anyone say that Wayne Chrebet was worth a #2 pick? I think the vast majority of fans would say "No", but if you look at what he accomplished in his career, I think the answer is easily "Yes".

    Welker is a similar player to Chrebet, and has the additional versatility of being a "sure-handed" kick returner. Welker has a history of not coughing up the ball, and is a good decision maker. Being sure-handed and heady is the main reason Troy Brown continued to be the Pats' punt returner long after the home run threat was gone. Turning over the ball while reciving a punt is a huge momentum turner, and usual gives the other team the ball deep in your territory. Greatly reducing that possibilty is a very underrated asset IMO.

    Additionally, other posters have gone to great lengths to detail the poor quality of the Fins' special teams which will be improved for Welker on the Pats.

    Consider also that we got a proven young veteran entering the prime of his career, and have signed him to a reasonable, long-term contract. Really, in a poor draft year, which this undoubtedly was, this is a no-brainer.
  12. naclone

    naclone Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    and i'm not saying it was genious. or even genius.

    i'm just saying he's worth a #2 (and a worthless #7). But i do agree with the original poster that it helps this was a weak draft. but regardless, there is risk involved with the acquisition of any player. but none moreso than draft picks. I remember when Robert Gallery was "the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft". how did that turn out? There are no sure things. but seeing guys at full speed in the NFL reduces some of the risk. And the Patriots, for the most part, have been pretty good at evaluating talent. especially unconventional talent that fits their system moreso than the rest of the league's.
  13. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    To add onto my last post, I do think the Patriots thought Welker was better than any player available in the late second round.
  14. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    It's way to early to call Welker Chrebet and I don't think he will ever touch that level. Trust me, I saw Wes play about 36 games for the Dolphins. People in Miami fell in love with him because he overachieved and worked hard. He's a good player (don't get me wrong) but I just think Pats fans are over hyping him.

    And yeah he has coughed up the ball a few times. I recall 2 last year and 2 in 2005. And he's not really a home run threat either. He lacks the extra boost to get through the second line or coverage. He will get you a few returns out the 40 or 50, but I'll be shocked if he takes one to the house.

    But yah know, we won't really know until the season gets under way. You may be right you may be wrong, we'll see.
  15. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    It ain't garbage, sweet 'ums. And it was Bookers' best year with you, not his worst.

    He didn't start and still caught more passes than your other guys.

    Last year, he was the best you had.

    Spin it anyway you want, but basically your top three WRs posted stats roughly the same.

    Welker had more catches, fewer yards. Not unexpected for a slot receiver to have fewer ypc than someone who gets the ball downfield. How can you bash 67 catches?

    Don't you know that slot receiver is the new hot position in the NFL. The Colts got one with a first round pick, and the Dolphins got one with the #9 pick in the draft. Doesn't that say something to you?

    Isn't that something? The guy who equaled your best guys last year is our #5 receiver. When you have a team with almost no holes like the patriots, you can splurge and get the guy you want. And if the doofusses he plays for undervalue him, so much the better. You can believe that Welker would have had a first round tender if he played for the pats last year.

    Ginn is your new slot receiver. Tell me this: if his yards and/or number of catches next year are less than Welkers were last year, won't you be embarrassed?

    BTW, is Ginn walking without a boot yet?
  16. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    There should be an undecided option on the poll, because that's where I'm at.
  17. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well Welker is never used in the red zone and couldn't help a team down there who struggled big time in the golden area. He also never catches passes more than 15 yards and barely even goes beyond 10.

    And you think Ginn is going to a slot receiver? He's one of the most explosive guys in the NFL, he'll be on the flank when he's on the field as Chambers and he will be moved around all game long.

    You're wrong, Welker was not our best receiver. Measure it in terms of yards and TDs and he didn't produce as much as the others. Are you going to tell me the best running back on a team is one who has the most carries?
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  18. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Again, you're way off on Welker being our best receiver. Honestly, don't tell me something about the Dolphins. I didn't miss 1 of the 960 minutes of their season last year. (Haven't done so for more than 3 years.)

    Again Ginn is not our slot receiver. He will be moved around but mostly running the deep posts and flys from the flank. And I could care less about catches, Ginn will bring us yards after the catch and TDs. He will smoke Wes in yards and TDs next year, no doubt about that.

    I don't care if he's in a boot now, games are won in September, not May.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  19. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -1

    Aquaman,

    I was saying Welker is a proven player in the NFL, he has produced on this level well enough to have the pats give away a 2nd and 7th pick.

    And he's looked at to be a 3rd wideout and produce on special teams, no one is calling him our saviour. (hopefully T. Ginn is gonna be your saviour. #9 pick are you serious) Anyways no one is over hyping him.
    We save that for Moss ( if it's possible to overhype the most talented WR EVER!!!)

    P.S. I enjoy reading your posts by the way your entertaining, sorry about all those guy who pick on you.
    But that dolphin video was kinda funny.
  20. danny88

    danny88 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    But Ted Ginn was worth the ninth overall pick? Lmao!!!!!!! A second round pick was **** this year. The colts gave up a second and 2008 first round pick to move up and get Tony Ugah in the second round lol.

    The jets traded there entire draft for two players. He was worth the second and it will be sweet to watch him play with a real team.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>