Welcome to PatsFans.com

Why does the government care about keeping taxes high?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by MrBigglesWorth, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    this may sound stupid. but why don't politicians lower taxes? it would keep the people happy. it's not like they are trying to balance a budget. they keep giving away money the nation doesn't have and charging it onto the national debt.

    so if a tax decrease results in let's say a shortage of 50 billion, what is the difference in getting that tax revenue versus not having it. the same result is coming which is giving away billions we don't have.

    how much money is going to be allocated to texas?

    on top of bailouts, etc.

    so I as you... if you are a politician why not just lower taxes?
  2. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,013
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Taxes are taxes and you can't really say what goes where. But, if you added up all the taxes you, I and every other individual tax payer pays to the IRS every year it only covers the interest to the Fed Reserve.
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Likes Received:
    370
    Ratings:
    +789 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    ..............................:yeahthat: .........................
  4. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    funny guy FBN. But it's not alone in the stupid ideas that come from the government all the time.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,700
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +496 / 2 / -9

    They don't want you to have any money, if your loaded they can't control you. if you don't have money they become "your boss"

    Scumsucking Swine, all politicians are worthless, dishonest, pigs

    (except Sarah)
    --------:p
  6. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,013
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    There's lipstick on that swine. ;)
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,700
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +496 / 2 / -9

    Harry Weasle Reid Wears His Wife's Underwear.

    Auntie Pelosi wears her husbands jock strap.

    Whoopi Goldberg doesn't wear any underwear.

    Sarah wears beautiful satin underwear.
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Likes Received:
    370
    Ratings:
    +789 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey


    We could fill a 100 pages of those Biggles ... :rofl:

    Let's face it Biggles ... taxes funds government programs and government programs help you keep your base in order. One of the things that I like about Obama is that he wants to greatly reduce foreign aid ... that would go a long way in helping to fund tax cuts. Does he really mean it ... well ... that's pretty much the subject of your thread and we always get told one thing and we get another.
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Likes Received:
    370
    Ratings:
    +789 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    Rumor has it Harry that Pelosi waxes :eek: Ruth also waxes ... :eek:
  10. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,013
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    McCain said the same thing in his RNC speech. Does he mean it?
  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Likes Received:
    370
    Ratings:
    +789 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey


    would be real nice. I think Obama means it more than McCain ... just a guess though.
  12. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    at the rate of our own tragedies we'll have to reduce foreign aid.

    still paying for katrina right?

    now Texas.

    we have constant wildfires in california on overpriced homes.

    tornadoes in the heartland

    am I missing anything?
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,726
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13


    Bo actually introduced a piece of legislation, to give the UN 1 trillion over the enxt 10 years to reduce poverty in the 3rd world (HA!). So wither he was lying or he doesn't consider 100B/yr as foreign aid.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,726
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13

    Politicans have power as their primary driver money is secondarty. How does a legislator use their power?

    Giving money to their friends and taxing their enemies. Business grovel to lawmakers seeking favors, subsideis tax breaks and so on. Earmarks directed to contributior, 'jobs created' to impress their constituents.

    Power is the name of the game, taxpayers money is the coin of the realm.

    A grest treatment (LOL also) is Parlament of Whor#s by PJ ORouke.
  15. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Bullseye!

    The smartest thing our government could do is lower the corporate tax rate, it is the second highest in the world. Some people here will claim that that sounds crazy because some corps make "too much money". But, if you understand economics, corporations don't pay taxes they simply collect them (from all of us). High corporate taxes also make us much less competitive to the global markets. And of course only motivate companies to move overseas.
  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,326
    Likes Received:
    244
    Ratings:
    +392 / 6 / -9

    Tell you what, lj, why don't we look at our competitors and adopt their corporate taxes, and therefore we could all be on a level playing field?

    Now then:

    * Our national top corporate tax is indeed the second highest in the world, at 35 percent. The guys who put out the press release making the rounds currently are adding that to our state rates, averaged in for the nation, then also broken out for each state. When you add the top rate for a given state it can go as high as 41.6% in Iowa.

    * When you average the states you come up with 39.27% for the top rate in the U.S.

    * Our Value Added Tax, at, uh, ZERO, is the lowest in the world.

    Let's look at the corporate tax rates among some of our economic rivals, in the G-8 countries.

    Japan (#1 in the world): 39.54%
    USA: 39.27%
    Germany: 38.9%
    Canada: 36.1%
    France: 34.4%
    Italy: 33%
    Great Britain: 30%
    Russia: 24%

    Now, let's look at basic Value Added Tax Rates:

    Japan: 5
    USA: 0
    Germany: 16
    Canada: 7
    France: 19.6
    Italy: 20
    Great Britain: 17.5
    Russia: 20


    The totals for each country's corporations, using the simple :

    Japan: 44.54
    USA: 39.27
    Germany: 54.29
    Canada: 43.1
    France: 54
    Italy: 53
    Great Britain: 47.5
    Russia: 44

    Shall we re-order the taxes paid by a corporation to sell goods anywhere in the G8, and choose the most "appealing" tax environment?

    Germany: 54.29
    France: 54
    Italy: 53
    Great Britain: 47.5
    Japan: 44.54
    Russia: 44
    Canada: 43.1
    USA: 39.27

    But what do we say in our silly national conversation on tax policy? Wahhhhhhh my taxes are too high!!! Wahhhh how will the US ever compeeeeete? Wahhhhhhh we need to give corporations a big multibillion dollar giffffft and never raise the minimum waaaaage wahhhhh... Our pooor corporations can't afffoooorrrrrd to do business here...:help:

    The truth is that the simplistic tax policy foundation press release that every right-winger in the world is now quoting on corporate tax rates is not an analysis. It is a one sided half-truth. Add in the VAT in other countries and the picture changes extensively.

    I'm not an expert, but in my job I'm starting to do a bit more business writing. I don't have an MBA, and I am learning as I go. (What I write here does not necessarily reflect -- or for that matter, necessarily vary from -- any of the opinions of my employer, of course...) But anyway, I ran across the phrase "velocity of a dollar" for the first time in this job.

    I would imagine that the "velocity of a dollar" would be the key phrase we would see raised in the case of a VAT (just as "competitiveness" is the key phrase we see in connection with corporate taxes, and "cutting taxes" in general is the key phrase you see vis a vis the income tax.)

    There will always be an excuse, a whine, a quasi-"responsible" argument for cutting taxes. But the fact is that cutting any tax is immensely attractive to the American national psyche. "Small government" is immensely attractive to the American national psyche. As a result, undisciplined politicians -- primarily from the right wing of the spectrum -- have progressively raised our deficits, year after year, decade after decade, and we are currently approximately 10 trillion dollars in debt.

    McCain wants to add 3 trillion dollars in new tax cuts. Oh and by the way, the ultimate potential (but not probable) exposures represented by the Fannie/Freddie bailouts? about 5 trillion more. Now, the feds are currently only offering that backup to 200 billion worth of debt... but the door is open.

    Under President George II, we doubled the debt from the 5 trillion dollar range to about 10, and opened the door to more. Under McCain, before the inauguration even happens, we'll be committed to another 3 trillion dollars.

    This is why I call these guys Spend and Spend Conservatives. Maybe Borrow And Spend is a better phrase.

    Claiming we can up this pace is insane. It's not fiscally irresponsible, it's fiscally suicidal.

    If you don't have kids, and you're of advanced age, I guess it does not matter that much. If you do have kids, or you plan to still be around when these bills come due, pay very close attention.

    By the way: McCain says he'll pay for his policies through "cutting pork". "Pork," according to one source, amounts to $17 billion a year. That's 176 years of porkless government to cover McCain's tax cuts.

    He adds another phrase to "by cutting pork": "and reforming social security."

    Social Security is itself a ticking time bomb, as the nation struggles to provide it for the waves of baby boomers who will start retiring in 2010. Everybody else is trying to figure out how we'll ever pay our present obligations... And McCain is going to "reform" it, and not only fix the problem, but turn it into a cash cow.

    Doesn't sound like "reforming" anything to me. It sounds like raiding social security.

    Does he mean cutting benefits? Means-testing social security, or eliminating it? The only person who's addressed it is Obama, who would restore the payroll tax for those making over 250K. From a little north of 100K to 250K you would still stop paying the social security tax, in Obama's scheme. It is only the wealthiest who would start paying again at a certain level.

    That's the basic "raising your taxes" Obama's guilty of... because you have to pay your bills somehow.

    Exactly what is McCain's "reform" to social security? Is it something to do with putting them on an ice floe? I hope not. The global warming situation may not allow for that solution soon ;)

    Thanks,

    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2008
  17. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,659
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    lower taxes= more tax revenue. Lower taxes, fewer regulations unleash the creative power of the economy. Higher taxes have the opposite effect stifling economic growth and lowering federal tax revenue as a result.
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,726
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13

    Cutting rates raise revenue. If we socialize medicine ti will make the entitlement worse by an order of magnitude. I find it funny PFiVA That while you recognize the SS problem, you support the candidate who will make the problem FAR QORSE.
  19. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,326
    Likes Received:
    244
    Ratings:
    +392 / 6 / -9

    So basically since we've cut rates at an unprecedented pace over the last eight years, our economy is going like gangbusters!

    The premise fails, pf13. We do not have the cash we claim we should have to show for it. No, we have a 10 trillion dollar debt, which was a scant half that size when President George II took the reins.

    No, there is no magical "the more selfish we are individually the more successful we are as a nation" rule.

    Let's do medicine on another thread. It's important. I know everybody hates social spending, and they seem to blame recipients of social spending for all our woes. (I wont start on corporate welfare vs. basic needs based on "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.")

    For right here on this thread, let's stick to these tax claims.

    PFnV
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Likes Received:
    370
    Ratings:
    +789 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    They'll find things and there will be no cuts or there will be cuts and raises in other areas. They'll raise taxes on businesses who will then raise their prices ... we pay in the end as we take it up our back end.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>