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Why does he always do this?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PATSNUTme, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I wanted to hear what Obama had to say last night to hopefully gain more information in order to support the Libyian polcy. I didn't hear anythng that I already didn't know.

    He totally lost me when he had to take cheap shots and both Bush and Clinton. Why does he do this? It's not the first time. Even if the speech was written for him, he should have had the class not to go there. Does he really need to bring up what other presidents have done to make himself look good?

    I wanted a serious speech with more information, because as an American, I want to support our Presidents policy when it comes to military conflict. But instead I heard a "look at me" speech and got up and walked away before it was over.
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    What were the "cheap shots"?

    (I've stopped listening to speeches for the most part -- nothing is usually said.)
  3. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    What did he say?
  4. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    He pointed out how long it took us & NATO to get involved in Bosnia. And, how we went into Iraq without broad based partners.

    All this compared to lightning fast way he went into Libya with the whole world holding hands (implied not direct quotes).

    He could have pounded his own chest without bring Bosnia and Iraq into the speech,IMO. Both Bosnia and Iraq were much more complex situations than Lybia.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey


    Do you mean this in regard to Bush? The task that I assigned our forces – to protect the Libyan people from immediate danger, and to establish a No Fly Zone – carries with it a UN mandate and international support. It is also what the Libyan opposition asked us to do. If we tried to overthrow Gaddafi by force, our coalition would splinter. We would likely have to put U.S. troops on the ground, or risk killing many civilians from the air. The dangers faced by our men and women in uniform would be far greater. So would the costs, and our share of the responsibility for what comes next.

    To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq. Thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our troops and the determination of our diplomats, we are hopeful about Iraq’s future. But regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives, and nearly a trillion dollars. That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya.


    And this in regards to Clinton? To summarize, then: in just one month, the United States has worked with our international partners to mobilize a broad coalition, secure an international mandate to protect civilians, stop an advancing army, prevent a massacre, and establish a No Fly Zone with our allies and partners. To lend some perspective on how rapidly this military and diplomatic response came together, when people were being brutalized in Bosnia in the 1990s, it took the international community more than a year to intervene with air power to protect civilians.

    To address the former - how is stating fact a "cheap shot??" And, honestly, is it something you think we can afford to repeat in Libya?

    As to the latter: If he was taking a shot at anyone he was taking it at The U.N. Security Council for dragging their feet. Interfering in another country's civil strife isn't something we'd want America to do on it's own, is it? Isn't that what we have the U.N. Security Council for?

    Transcript of President Obama's speech on Libya - Washington Times

    Anyhow, neither of them sounded like "cheap shots" to me. Cheap shots are things like, "He's not an American citizen," or "that's a phony birth certificate," or "He's not a Christian." Assuring us that he's not planning on taking us down the road to another Iraq is not a cheap shot. It's good policy.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    [​IMG] Why did he have to bring Bosnia and Iraq at all to make his point? They came off as cheap shots to make him look good.

    I really wanted to be able to support the effort and policy. I got nothing to help me. I think there were many other people who wanted the same thing, I doubt if they were helped either.

    He is the POUS, not a message board poster.
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Show me anyone who holds a political office of any kind who does not attempt to make themselves "look good," whenever possible and I'll show you someone who's either suicidal or not planning on running for reelection.

    Did he have to bring Bosnia into it? Maybe not, although it doesn't hurt because alot of people were unhappy with the fact that we did not get involved in Bosnia when we should have/could have made a difference and drawing the comparison is valid and a memory-booster.

    Did he have to bring Iraq into it? Of course. People are terrified of another Iraq happening - how could he assure them (us) that this was a different case and being handled in a totally different manner?

    He did not mention either Carter or Bush by name, which he certainly could have done - he did not directly lay blame at either their of their feet.

    Bringing up history is not a bad thing, PATSNUT, we need to be reminded of it now and then - you know what they say happens when people forget it.
  8. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    In this political climate nothing Obama does/says would make him look good as he will be attacked from both sides.

    I didn't see him making himself look better in last night's speech, but if you did that's cool.
  9. Nikolai

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    #54 Jersey

    I guess I could see how it would be construed as a couple of cheap shots, but I also don't think his bringing up those conflicts is out of the blue. After all, when people are talking about this or criticizing this "military action" in the press, those conflicts have been brought up (though, I notice he didn't mention Somalia, the other oft-compared conflict). It was relevant for him to put perspective, whether one agrees with it or not, on this conflict vis-a-vis Bosnia and Iraq.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  10. Harry Boy

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    He's a Chicago ass hole.
  11. patsfan13

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    He did it because he is classless. Other Presidents never took gratuitous shots at their predecessors. His base as evidenced in this thread will eat it up however.
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    and as evidenced in this thread his opponents will just view it as gratuitous and classless :rolleyes:

    Seriously, 13 -- why would his base "eat up" a gratuitous shot at a Democratic President who was extremely popular?

    Are you sure that other Presidents, in similar addresses, haven't referenced prior military engagements?

    In other words, is there any substance behind any of the criticisms in this thread?
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably because he's insecure and a narcissist. You know, the kind of qualities you look for in the leader of the free world.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I wonder if any President in recent times wasn't a narcissist.
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey


    8/30/2005
    Bush address in San Diego

    They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy… After September the 11th, 2001, we’ve taught the terrorists a very different lesson: America will not run in defeat and we will not forget our responsibilities.

    ThinkProgress Bush Blames Carter, Reagan, Clinton for 9/11
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    To be fair, though, the bold part is undeniably true.
  17. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    If this were the draft forum, that would be called a real "reach".

    It's not even close in context to what Obama said. But Kool Aid drinkers have to drink, so I expected this kind of defense.

    As I stated before, I was looking for real information that would make me feel better about the operation and hoping that I could support it. Instead it was a total "look at me" speech.

    Now today,even the main stream media (CBS News) is reporting that AQ, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hezbollah are included in the Libyan "freedom fighters". The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Maybe we could have taken a little more time to find out just who's bed we jumped into.
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    What's the difference, in your opinion?
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This...


    Versus this...


  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    How is the latter gratuitous, classless, a cheap shot, etc., when the former essentially blames the former Presidents for enabling 9/11 due to the perception of a lack of courage and character in our nation?

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