Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Marko, Feb 14, 2008.
Arlen, could it be that other teams are trying to steal his signals? Jackass!
It's also a big part of why they put a speaker in the QB's helmets. As we all know, we didn't cheat we just broke a rule. Speeding, not drunk driving.
I mean really, why do we even have signals in the first place? So teams don't know what you're doing because if you just said it out loud people would know and it'd give them an advantage. Does it make them dishonest? Not at all, if you can figure out what the other team is doing then more power to you. The only crime here is using the camera. No big deal really.
It's not just because other teams might be cheating. There was a big deal with Mike Holmgren just this year where he got mad at the network cameras for focusing in on the wrong side of his cheat sheet (the one he covers his mouth with). Network cameras show head coaches all the time, and they probably don't want their plays to be given away on national TV.
It gets cold up there in Philly, he doesn't want his chap lips exposed on national television.
Stealing signals? What?! Only the Patriots do that, ESPN told me.
Right, who would want their plays on television besides other teams? And if you don't want your sheet shown cover your mouth with the menu that most of them look like they can't put down.
The camera was focusing in on the side that was closest to his mouth. They focused in on an angle coming from behind him, and showed some of the plays. They backed off as soon as they realized, though. Obviously it's not the side that normally faces towards the cameras that they caught on video. And yes, teams do want the opponent's plays on TV. But there's a difference between Tivo-ing the game and deciphering plays from network tape and making your own. Just because they're covering their mouth doesn't mean the other team is specifically making a tape trying to steal the signals or plays.
It's to prevent the other team from seeing what you're calling! Be it lip reading in real time, or tapes, and yes they're concerned about lip reading I've heard Eagles players confirm this on WIP well before the spygate thing. The point is if people are taking precautions from having their signals stolen it's probably because it happens all the time. Like people who live in a high crime area take many more precautions than those who don't. And please explain the difference between tivo'in it and making your own? The whole thing is ridiculous because if you were really worried about getting caught doing it a 3rd grader could come up with a way to tape signals and not get caught!!!!!!!!!!!! Fact is the rule was stupid, because their is so many ways to get around it.
It's funny how this is always mentioned during games but the media and talking heads on ESPN act like they have never mentioned it before since spygate.
Wow, I had a feeling someone might ask "what's the difference between Tivo-ing it and making your own??" Well let's see...the cameras of the networks are controlled by the networks. They don't go out of their way to try and catch defense signals, etc. They try to show the play of the game, not steal signals. If you make your own, then surprise, that's against the rules.
And just because there's "so many ways to get around it" makes it a stupid rule? So would you say that the laws against insurance fraud, hacking, etc. are stupid because "there's so many ways to get around it?" It's a rule, get over it.
I'm sure that players are concerned about lip reading. So what? That has nothing to do with videotaping. There's a huge difference between lip reading (being perceptive) and purposely getting a video tape that you can try and interpret later (being deceptive).
As I stated in another thread - it's not the fact that signals are being stolen, it's the method of doing it. If you happen to look over to the sideline and see an opposing coach mouth "BLITZ," that's not against the rules. But using deceptive methods to try and steal the signals, that is.
Well, I'm glad your video guy wasn't smarter than a 3rd grader then. Because somehow, he got caught.
whom are drunk drivers cheating?
sorry, but i can't help myself
nor can i behave
We tried to steal signals in high school. Everybody does it. The problem is the Patriots were arrogant about it.
anyone ever play highschool ball back in the 80s? remember how play calls went in...at least on our team...we'd have one guy, switch out every play, running in the call to the qb...unless someone attacked him and tortured him into giving up the play call by the time he got to the huddle...stealing signals was never an issue in HS ball.
ahh...those were the days...none of this other crap, just call the play, run it in, run the play and let the warriors decide on the field if it was a good call or not...
not saying the NFL should do this...just remembering when when the game loved me, as much as I love the game.
He covers his mouth because he doesn't want his mouthful of polish sausage to fall out.
Point taken as it refers to breaking the rules part, but the original point I was trying to make is that stealing signals is an old part of the game, the rule that it's ok to tape if you're under some sort of cover (roof etc.) is stupid. The fact is that if BB really wanted to cheat or thought he was cheating or doing something that the culture in the NFL would find so outrageous he would have been alot more decpetive about it. Joe average person can go to any spy shop and by taping equipment that is indetectable.
Because back in '99, Mike Shanahan hired lip readers to sit in the stands and lip read opposing coaches. Word of this eventually got out.
That's why you see a lot of coaches using their laminated cheat sheets to cover their mouths when speaking into the mike, and ironically, that includes the aforementioned Shanahan.
Andy Reid is a stallwart in his community because of the way he raised his two sons, "Arlen Spector". They'll make fine drug dealers when they get out of the bighouse. He also has really bad breath.
I'm sure that players are concerned about lip reading. So what? That has nothing to do with videotaping. There's a huge difference between lip reading (being perceptive) and purposely getting a video tape that you can try and interpret later (being deceptive)
Getting guys with binoculars who can lip read is perceptive? Plus having a camera in plain sight filming your signals is being deceptive? I've got to give you props you're good, but I don't agree with these premises. The fact that collecting intelligence is part of the game is not understood by the average idiot. But it goes deeper to many Pats fans, it feels like people who do understand all of the crap that has been pulled are also piling on and talking out of both sides of their mouth, much like the guy from ESPN(forgot name) who said that Howard Mudd is widely known around the league for his ability to steal signals yet only mentions these things when in Boston. The original post has nothing to do with the Pats specific type of spying, but points to the culture of the NFL where it is widely recognizable that it is a common practice.
So it's ok to cheat if it's only a little bit or because you didn't set out to. I mean this process is not rocket science but it's not like someone just happens to read the coaches lips and interpret the play call to figure out what play they actually are running. Coaches don't mouth "Blitz". There does have to be some outward attempt to steal and translate regardless if it's tvoed, on tape, or a guy in the stands with binoculars and a pen. It's either wrong anyway you look at it or not. That's why the rule is stupid(among others) because it only addresses a minute aspect of stealing signals!
If the NFL really was concerned it could outlaw filming the coach on the sidelines or taping and broadcasting audio(like really loud broadcasts of Brady's)
Most Philly fans never reached the 3rd grade so how would you recognize a 3rd grader?
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