Why do you care?

[Interception]

I have seen a lot of people talk about how "everyone believes the patriots are cheaters now."

Winners are usually despised and hated. The patriots were hated and excuses were made well before deflategate.

But I've seen people mention how no one will believe the patriots are innocent after Kraft backed down. That has been mentioned more so than the draft picks as far as I can tell.

So personally, why do you care what other fanbases think about the Patriots?
Does it matter what they think? If yes, why?

 

[50-yard-line]

When BB isn't recognized as the greatest coach ever because of that asterisk, will you care?

When Brady maybe doesn't get that first ballot HoF, will you care?

When the discussions turn to the greatest team of all time - Steelers, Packers, Niners, Cowboys, but not the Patriots because, well, you know, will you care?

Hell, by your apparent logic, why does it matter whether or not THEY WIN?

 

[JJC]

I care that there is an assault on truth, science, and due process. I care that people in a position to stem the assault would instead choose to retreat into a comfortable place and allow the insane clown posse to encroach a little further into civilization. The idea that an illiterate, scat-for-brains, like Chris Russo is perceived to have won the day over well reasoned pieces by the likes of Sally Jenkins and Drew Fustin should be a Klaxon like alarm that we are in really dangerous waters as a civil society. It's a glimpse into an Orwellian and/or Hobbesian nightmare, depending on whether the pendulum swings toward tyranny or anarchy.

 

[supafly]

I care because sports are supposed to be fun, and constantly defending your team becomes quite tiresome.

While it's certainly nothing near what it would take for me to ditch my rooting interests, it's still reason enough to be a pain in the butt.

 

[Interception]

When BB isn't recognized as the greatest coach ever because of that asterisk, will you care?

When Brady maybe doesn't get that first ballot HoF, will you care?

When the discussions turn to the greatest team of all time - Steelers, Packers, Niners, Cowboys, but not the Patriots because, well, you know, will you care?

Hell, by your apparent logic, why does it matter whether or not THEY WIN?

How does it not matter if they win by my logic? I want them to win because it makes ME happy, not because of other people's opinions. I don't care about what other people think about them as long as they keep winning.
Just because I don't care what other fanbases think about my team means i don't care if they win? I don't need other fanbases approval of my teams success for me to be happy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Better question: why do you keep starting threads?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I care that there is an assault on truth, science, and due process. I care that people in a position to stem the assault would instead choose to retreat into a comfortable place and allow the insane clown posse to encroach a little further into civilization. The idea that an illiterate, scat-for-brains, like Chris Russo is perceived to have won the day over well reasoned pieces by the likes of Sally Jenkins and Drew Fustin should be a Klaxon like alarm that we are in really dangerous waters as a civil society. It's a glimpse into an Orwellian and/or Hobbesian nightmare, depending on whether the pendulum swings toward tyranny or anarchy.

As Pilate said (since we seem to be on a roll with Jewish historical references), "What is truth?"

IMO, truth is a rare commodity in this day and age. Mike Wilbon on PTI said the other day that what mattered about Deflategate was not whether or not the Patriots/Brady did anything (he's personally convinced they did), but rather what the latest poll showed.

As you may have gathered by my moniker, I am firmly of the persuasion that
- there is a truth
- that this truth greatly matters

Isaac Asimov wrote a great trilogy called the Foundation series (which decades ago won the award as the best science fiction trilogy of all time; he later added a couple more books to make a total of 5 Foundation books). One memorable scene from the first book had a rich political leader/archaeologist doing research into the question of what the home planet of humankind was - which was a popular debate at the time (the origins long since having been obscured by the passage of time). He did this research by examining the writings of great archaeologists of the past - who likely did their research by studying the writings of their predecessors.

One of the few more enlightened persons of that time (from the Foundation) looked at this "scientific technique" and noted how bankrupt it was in terms of finding the truth. When he suggested to the archaeologist that he should do/redo the basic research himself (i.e. re-examine the original evidence and possibly discover new evidence), the archaeologist responded with derision - how could he hope to ever match what the great archaeologists of the past had done? No, the best (only) method was clearly to read the various writings balancing the arguments in one writing against the other; doing original research would be a total waste of time. The enlightened Foundation man later noted how this attitude was clear evidence of the total stagnation going on in the empire at that time.

We are moving closer and closer to that point today where what matters is not what actually happened but simply what (typically uninformed/misinformed) people think happened.

Does truth matter? A Jewish prophet years ago said, "the truth will set you free." This is as true today as when it was first uttered.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

I have seen a lot of people talk about how "everyone believes the patriots are cheaters now."

Winners are usually despised and hated. The patriots were hated and excuses were made well before deflategate.

But I've seen people mention how no one will believe the patriots are innocent after Kraft backed down. That has been mentioned more so than the draft picks as far as I can tell.

So personally, why do you care what other fanbases think about the Patriots?
Does it matter what they think? If yes, why?

 

[Interception]

Better question: why do you keep starting threads?

You could have simply blocked me in the amount of time it took you to type that.
But it's okay, you're obviously not a bright one. It can't be helped.

 

[DarrylS]

The reason why I care so much is as a very long term fan was tired of the abuse that I took as fan in the 80's and 90's... the times when Pats Gear was not available and we were in the pits. Used to work on Sunday and all of the Jets, Dolphins and Giants fans would come to work in their "puff" coats of puke green another sordid colors, while we were blacked out.. and I was forced to listen to the dulcid tones of Gil Santos (everyone thought I was a hopeless gambling derelict) and had to deal with the verbal abuse regarding the ineptitude of the Patriots...

When the JC Penney or Sears Christmas catalog would come out would go to NFL gear, and the Pats were never included.. there was a core group of teams(Dallas, Chicago, GB, NYJ, NYG, Dolphins, Raiders) for which there was a bunch of fan gear you could buy.. but never anything for the Pats. My first t-shirt was a cheap "squish the fish" t-shirt from their 1985 run, during that run used to go to Green Airport to watch them land and get off of the plane..

Used to go to TC at Bryant, and the nice thing was that I could get up close and personal with the team.. from standing by the ropes on the way to the field.. to being able to watch practice that was one deep around the field..

This is why I care so much.. because this team has been so much a part of my life..
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[MassPats38]

Why? Because part of the joy of following a sports team is enjoying the fruits of success. That includes Hall of Fame possibilities and title defense respect.

Treating a team that has never thrown a game with the regard of the 1919 Chicago White Sox and smearing its highest profile star, to the extent the coach and the player may have resistance in Hall of Fame voting without any evidence whatsoever that they engaged in conduct designed to affect illegally the competitive balance of the game, is ridiculous. I am not accepting of that treatment, and no real fan of the team should be either. Underhanded acts to handicap the team in stripping high draft picks and suspending a key player, which may yet affect a title defense, is similarly unacceptable. Hearing a year of media bleating about why the Pats do not deserve respect because of this absurdity is similarly annoying.

Limited to the declaration of why I care what other fans think, frankly I don't. I personally view most of the whining byatches looking for excuses for losses as idiots without an understanding of the game. The only fans I really care to listen to are the ones who can engage in a rational discussion about players and X's and O's.

 

[SunshineSammy]

I used to scream that the Yankees were buying world championships.. that it was an unfair advantage... Then the Sox bought two HOF pitchers and finally won.. I had to stfu about it..

This has turned real ugly... and it won't go away until BB and TB are retired... every media outlet will have a hard on for us until then..

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I care, b/c it's a pain in the butt, and fundamentally unfair. That much I'm on-board with.

I don't care to the extent that it will diminish my fanhood.

I was never a big spender into the Kraft coffers, so those who are vowing to drop their season tickets, meh, they can do what they want. Someone will buy them. I actually think Kraft went beyond what he had to do to get peace with Goodell, which was just plain sad to me. He either bungled the team reaction at the front end, at the back end, or both. I don't really have a need for more Pats gear... I'm another fatass with a couple Brady jerseys. I might buy another standout's jersey closer to my O-linish/Linebackerish-on-a-good-day build... if he's just signed a long-term deal... but I'm in no hurry.

I don't care about "asterisk talk," because I know where the asterisk goes on these ridiculously excessive penalties: The NFL*.

I care because the playing field is tilted frequently in the off-season to stop the Patriots from excelling.

Let me give you some insights from being down in this area for this run.

For SB 36, I was in a bar, and the place was going wild for the Patriots. It was "America's team," the storybook ending, blah blah blah. The next year I was in another bar for the Raiders/Bucs, and decided ahead of time to root for the Bucs based on Pats/Raiders animosity at the time. Big fan-bases for both teams, no "everybody loves _____."

Then came the eye-opener... When we played Carolina and Philly, people actively wanted us to lose... just based on the fact that we win too much. Since 2007, ***eddaboutit... you have to go to Murphy's to get a pro-Pats crowd for any game. I mainly watch at home.

My point of view is that 95% of the country's football-watchers hate the Pats. Just like everybody used to hate the Yankees.

Oh well, right?

And when they talk in the future about the "great dynasties," I think there is a good chance that it will be pointed out that asterisks or not, the Patriots might just be the greatest, because the League* took actions both through structural changes, and through ad-hoc thumb-on-scale actions, to defeat the Patriots on behalf of the other 31 teams.

Nobody else might be able to do this in the era of salary cap/free agency. Evah. (Possibly... and being oldish, maybe this is just the last dynasty in my lifetime.)

So would I prefer that the NFL* stop trying to change the competitive balance with this kind of chicanery? Of course. Will other fans see it for what it is? Some yes, most no.

Do I care what other fans think? Hell no. They'll all get their turns to see their team be at the top for a year, per the NFL's apparent wishes, one day. That usually calms 'em down.

However, if the football gods have a sense of humor, Indy will be cursed forever, just as the JEST have been in the past and I hope are in the future.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

As Pilate said (since we seem to be on a roll with Jewish historical references), "What is truth?"

IMO, truth is a rare commodity in this day and age. Mike Wilbon on PTI said the other day that what mattered about Deflategate was not whether or not the Patriots/Brady did anything (he's personally convinced they did), but rather what the latest poll showed.

As you may have gathered by my moniker, I am firmly of the persuasion that
- there is a truth
- that this truth greatly matters

Isaac Asimov wrote a great trilogy called the Foundation series (which decades ago won the award as the best science fiction trilogy of all time; he later added a couple more books to make a total of 5 Foundation books). One memorable scene from the first book had a rich political leader/archaeologist doing research into the question of what the home planet of humankind was - which was a popular debate at the time (the origins long since having been obscured by the passage of time). He did this research by examining the writings of great archaeologists of the past - who likely did their research by studying the writings of their predecessors.

One of the few more enlightened persons of that time (from the Foundation) looked at this "scientific technique" and noted how bankrupt it was in terms of finding the truth. When he suggested to the archaeologist that he should do/redo the basic research himself (i.e. re-examine the original evidence and possibly discover new evidence), the archaeologist responded with derision - how could he hope to ever match what the great archaeologists of the past had done? No, the best (only) method was clearly to read the various writings balancing the arguments in one writing against the other; doing original research would be a total waste of time. The enlightened Foundation man later noted how this attitude was clear evidence of the total stagnation going on in the empire at that time.

We are moving closer and closer to that point today where what matters is not what actually happened but simply what (typically uninformed/misinformed) people think happened.

Does truth matter? A Jewish prophet years ago said, "the truth will set you free." This is as true today as when it was first uttered.

You, sir, get a "winner" badge for tying in the Foundation series.

What with all the Star Wars tropes you usually see around here, I prefer Bill Belichick as Harry Seldon and Roger Goodell as The Mule.

It's a pity how every other legitimately great read in SciFi got cannibalized for parts and glued back together into the comparative dreck that is Star Wars. But hey, it popularized the genre, so, meh.

 

[SunshineSammy]

Well winners are hated... like I said who here hasn't hated the Yankees..? Cowboys were hated.. Raiders, Steelers..

Pats grew that stigma.. but I don't think it is cheating as much as it is BB's personality.. it is a ****tail I suppose..

Since Kraft bought the Pats there have been bitter conflicts.. I think back to Parcells leaving and Kraft demanding the Jets #1 pick for his services.. People were pissed for letting Bill go.. And Kraft was clearly frustrated and it showed.. And the Pats looked like the bad guys..

Leon Hess clearly contacted Parcells(much worse than Woody talking like a moron).. He let it slip in an interview he had conversations with Parcells. But Kraft got all the heat.. so, in my opinion. This is where it started.. or at least where. the seeds were planted.. and we hadn't won **** yet, BB was part of the Jets scheme, and nobody heard of Tom Brady..

 

[supafly]

The reason why I care so much is as a very long term fan was tired of the abuse that I took as fan in the 80's and 90's... the times when Pats Gear was not available and we were in the pits. Used to work on Sunday and all of the Jets, Dolphins and Giants fans would come to work in their "puff" coats of puke green another sordid colors, while we were blacked out.. and I was forced to listen to the dulcid tones of Gil Santos (everyone thought I was a hopeless gambling derelict) and had to deal with the verbal abuse regarding the ineptitude of the Patriots...

When the JC Penney or Sears Christmas catalog would come out would go to NFL gear, and the Pats were never included.. there was a core group of teams(Dallas, Chicago, GB, NYJ, NYG, Dolphins, Raiders) for which there was a bunch of fan gear you could buy.. but never anything for the Pats. My first t-shirt was a cheap "squish the fish" t-shirt from their 1985 run, during that run used to go to Green Airport to watch them land and get off of the plane..

Used to go to TC at Bryant, and the nice thing was that I could get up close and personal with the team.. from standing by the ropes on the way to the field.. to being able to watch practice that was one deep around the field..

This is why I care so much.. because this team has been so much a part of my life..
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

How cool would it be to still have that "squish the fish" t shirt? Major Patriots history right there.

 

[ausbacker]

I have seen a lot of people talk about how "everyone believes the patriots are cheaters now."

Winners are usually despised and hated. The patriots were hated and excuses were made well before deflategate.

But I've seen people mention how no one will believe the patriots are innocent after Kraft backed down. That has been mentioned more so than the draft picks as far as I can tell.

So personally, why do you care what other fanbases think about the Patriots?
Does it matter what they think? If yes, why?

I don't care what opposition supporters think of the Patriots, I care about the application of fairness. The Patriots have been hanged, drawn, and quartered because of their 15 year brilliance/dominance. At no stage during Cameragate or Defamegate were they treated with any respect or fairness by the NFL, the media and their slain foes.

I have no problem with people taking shots at the Patriots because success breeds jealousy. Where I do have a problem is scapegoating and the irregular application of what should be universal justice/fairness. For the better part of a decade, the Patriots have copped it for the sins of the NFL. **** that.

 

[Brady2Moss]

after the initial anger I realized I should be thankful; I've been given a fool proof and quick method to determine who is a dumbass and who isn't

 

[nowayback]

I don't care much about other fan bases, but I prefer when I listen to the radio or put on a sports show that I don't have to hear TFB cheated. One of my pleasures in life is listening to the radio as I take a nap . And I just don't think its fair to Brady. AS the reporters like to ask/say " what will you tell the kids " so what have the kids learned? That someone who for his adult life has been a model sportsman and person..in the end was just like anybody else, a cheater or liar . So kids listen don't worry about being good cause even TB was bad.

NE kids....they learned that even you have a model person, that it counts for nothing.

 

[sambam94]

When BB isn't recognized as the greatest coach ever because of that asterisk, will you care?

When Brady maybe doesn't get that first ballot HoF, will you care?

When the discussions turn to the greatest team of all time - Steelers, Packers, Niners, Cowboys, but not the Patriots because, well, you know, will you care?

Hell, by your apparent logic, why does it matter whether or not THEY WIN?

no, I don't care..I find too many way to wrapped up in legacy, greatest ever, ect. I watch for the excitement of the games, play-off runs, super bowls. Belichick is not my dad, Brady is not my friend..legacy crap is overrated.