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Why do we want a team in L.A.?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shakadave, May 31, 2006.

  1. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    There is so much groupspeak out there about putting an NFL team (or two) in Los Angeles. The argument usually includes the idea that [insert large percentage here] of our country lives in L.A., so we can't turn our backs on such a huge population.

    Nonsense.

    I have lived in L.A. before. People in L.A. just don't care about attending NFL football. We live in a mobile society. People move to L.A. because they like a certain lifestyle. That lifestyle does not generally include attending NFL football games.

    Are there some NFL fans in L.A.? Of course. But how many can there be, and how FANatical can they be about NFL football, if not one but two owners within memory have pulled their teams out of that market?

    If it's correct that the NFL needs a team in L.A. because L.A. has a large population, then it's also true that L.A. is a great location for a whitewater rafting venue, an ice fishing club, and a lumberjack contest.
    Last edited: May 31, 2006
  2. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Why it is true that LA had two teams that pulled out in recent times. Think back a bit further and you will rember that a certain New England based team was looking to pick up stakes and move out of one of the largest markets as well, despite it being a very good sports market. Why, because of less then stellar management and poor quality on the field.

    If I am reading the current thinking correctly, a team with good management, cororate connections, and actually puts a quality team on the field should be able to jump start the large possible fan base in the area.

    However this is sort of belied by the fact that Jacksonville nearly took thier division this year, usurped the Titans position as number 2 handily, yet they had almost no-one reup for season tickets.
  3. TNPatsFan

    TNPatsFan Rookie

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    I agree. I don't think L.A. wants a team as bad as the NFL wants a team in L.A. It's all about the money they can make off an L.A. based team.
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    "We" don't want one. I don't think any football fans want one. The networks seem to think they'll get more advertising dollars with a team in LA, and, in turn, the NFL seems to think they'll get more network dollars with a team in LA.

    This is one of those decisions that is all about business. The losers in the deal are going to be the diehard Charger fans in San Diego. Luckily, due to the beautiful weather, that stadium's usually empty on Sundays anyway.
    Last edited: May 31, 2006
  5. Amnorix

    Amnorix Rookie

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    Basically, it all comes down to money. If they can have a team in LA that's as popular as the Lakers, then the NFL makes millions. That's all there is to it.
  6. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Good thoughts, Dragon. I suppose the probability of a new L.A. franchise's having good management, corporate connections, AND a quality team on the field is pretty low. How many current teams fit the bill? Pats, Steelers, Eagles, (?)

    In fact, a team that has all those good qualities can even sell out in a small city in Wisconsin!
    Last edited: May 31, 2006
  7. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    What it really comes down to is that the greater LA area is the largest television market in the country and not having a team in LA takes a big chunk out of the NFL TV ratings, which have been in steady decline for the last few years. This does not just mean that people in LA will watch only their team, but pre and post shows, second games of the Sunday doubleheaders, and most importnat to the networks: The Sunday and Monday prime time games which cost the most to advertise on and pull the best ratings of Men 18-34 which is the hardest demographic to reach on TV
    Last edited: May 31, 2006
  8. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Do you have sources for this data? I read somewhere recently that L.A. fans of the NFL actually watch their share of NFL games, sort of without concern that they don't have a home team. Also, I was under the impression that NFL TV ratings are still rising (hence the new bigger salary cap).
  9. Tyler Faith

    Tyler Faith Rookie

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    The only reason people in the NFL keep pushing for a Los Angeles team is because it's the second largest broadcast revenue area in the country. They're thinking $ only, bottom line.

    You're right about the people. I live here. No one in this town cares. All you have to do is go to a Laker game to see that. More people go to BE SEEN as oppose to see the game.

    I go to a lot of KINGS games out here because I love hockey (it kills be that the Bruins didn't come here last year...another story for another thread). But even at the Kings games, I have to constantly yell at friends who just want to party and talk the whole game.

    I may be a chick but when I go to a game, I want to see the damn game. If you want to party and talk, take me to a bar!!! Nuff said! :bricks:
  10. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    wow

    Tyler, I wouldn't watch the Kings game either if you were there...however, a winner gets supported anywhere...LA included. Look at the Lakers, Ducks and Clippers. I was just at the Ducks game Saturday and it was rocking.
  11. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    I can't really point you to a specific source on this, but it's what I do for a living. I have been buying media against Men 18-34 for the last 10 years which includes a ton of NFL and college football. TV ratings in general for men are declining. The ratings for the NFL have been declining steadily for teh last few years. This is a big reason why MNF is moving to ESPN where the ratings against men will be a great cable number and ABC will not have to eat a low Household number (all demographics combined)

    Even with the ratings dropping the NFL is still one of the largest vehicles to reach men in one place. So even with the declining ratings it is still the most valuable property against men for the networks. The salary cap went up becuse the networks signed bigger overall TV contracts, which is more a result of the networks bidding against themselves that drove the TV contracts up. NBC desperatly needed the NFL and were willing to pay through the nose to get it. And while tehy will probably lose money on the NFL deal, in that the ad revenue generated by ads on NFL games won't pay out the contract it helps the overall bottom line in that the largest advertsisers out there for men: beer, financial services, movies, cars will be willing to spend more overall money with NBC.

    Unlike women who tend to have very similar TV tastes across the board (obviously a huge generalization but that's what TV is, the most mass medium aimed at the lowest common denominator). TV for men is very fragmented and with all of the cable networks out there you have a ton of shows all pulling very small ratings which is why you see the same shaving cream and car ads so often. Those brands need to run their ads so much in order to get an effective reach number, (which means the highest percentage of total men that will see the ad at least 3 times)

    The LA market does OK for NFL on TV, just below the national average, but not as big as it should be given it's rank as the biggest TV market in the country and many of the big brands as well as a lot of regional brands buy LA as a separate market, and they are losing out on a ton of ad revenue there. But it's not just the games, think about how many times per game you see an ad run by CBS advertising a new show. By not having a big peice of LA watching the games the networks are losing out on a ton of free promotion for their own programming which in turn drive more ad revenue.
    Last edited: May 31, 2006
  12. tkayo

    tkayo Rookie

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    1. LA teams didn't even sell out playoff games (Raiders/Rams)
    2. All California teams have a stadium problems. The entire state has financial problems and no major California city would ever allow tax revenue to be used to in any way finance any part of any stadium. By focusing so much attention to LA, the NFL is determined to build a stadium there to the exclusion of all other California NFL teams, who all have stadium problems.
    3. LA is Raider country. Most LA fans are Raiders fans. The area where teh Colliseum is located, could explain the reason why they could not sell out games. BTW: The Raiders already paid a premium to the NFL to be in the LA market.

    To be successfull, any plans for a team in LA has to 1:involve the Raiders, 2:not involve the voters in major metropolitan areas

    IMO if NFL people are talking about 2 teams (LA & Orange Co), they are then talking about the Raiders for LA, and some other team for Orange Co (Chargers, Bills, Saints, etc).
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2005
  13. godef

    godef Rookie

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    I hear what yr trying to say, but the problem with this reasoning is that both those LA teams have had relatively successful histories. The Raiders have three(?) Lombardi's including one acquired when they were in LA. And though the Rams never made it to the Super Bowl while based in LA, they were always a contending team.

    But really, those teams did have something in common with the Pats, and that was local governments unwilling to step up and provide infrastructure for the team (at least in the minds of the owners thereof). I am not being pro or con about whether a professional sports franchise ought to expect such treatment (that's another argument) so much as stating what I percieve to be the facts (aka mho).
  14. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Thanks for the professional caliber analysis!

    I understand all the points you make, but I want to point out an implied premise you are making: If a team is placed in L.A., then L.A. will watch more NFL on TV than they do now. If this premise is true, then it's a good business decision for all the reasons you cite. But I'm questioning the premise!
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2005
  15. wrangler

    wrangler Rookie

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    LA Rams?

    godef m8, in 1979 "The LA Rams" did make the the big show.
  16. Tyler Faith

    Tyler Faith Rookie

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    Give 'em the Phins

    Send the Dolphins to LA so my man doesn't have to drag me all the way to Miami every year to watch his Phins get worked by my boys! LOL:eek:
  17. wrangler

    wrangler Rookie

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    Hmmmmm, LA DullFins, has a kind of ring to it.? :D
  18. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I recall correctly, one of the reasons that LA has been tough for the NFL is the strength of college football in the area (particularly USC) and its hostility to professional football.

    Personally, I think the idea of the Raiders moving back to LA makes the most sense.

    I'd hate to see the balance of numbers/divisions/rivalries/schedules/play-off places messed up just when they've got it right and adding a team or moving one across country would do that.
  19. Mr.Kilowatt

    Mr.Kilowatt Rookie

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    I really think the Colts threw a monkey wrench in the NFL plans when they convinced Indy to build them a new stadium. I think Tagliabue and several of the big market owners really wanted Indy to be the team to move. I know Jerry Jones was one, and I remember another owner (who I can't remember his name) made the statement that "we never wanted a team in Indianapolis in the first place". There are several teams that need new stadiums. Minnesota, unlikely. San Diego, Maybe. New Orleans, Had an excuse. Buffolo, La Bills just doesn't sound right. Jacksonville, doubt it. San Fransisco, Maybe. That leaves me to believe that if it ever does happen in LA it will be the Raiders. Some of those teams mentioned above, may move somewhere else, but unless it is one of the California teams, I don't see it happening.
  20. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Well, the scuttle butt is that San Deigo is prime canidate to be moved, but not all the way into LA, somewhere around Orange county. San Diego is not going to be able to do much to get a new stadium built, so they have already given the owner permision to go look elsewhere.

    Jacksonville is another that could be moved. They simply can not get people to buy the tickets. As I mentioned before, despite a play-off berth and a 12-4 record, that had a big drop in season ticket sales, something around 50% less then last year. (One of the reasons I hear about that is the fact that the SEC games are huge in that location and no one is terribly interested in going to NFL games.)

    Cardnials saved themselves from the chopping block by getting thier stadium done, improving the team on the field and actually having a major surge in season ticket sales.

    LA is not going to have to pony up too much in the way of dollars to get a new stadium built for an LA franchise, the NFL is already gearing up the money they have for investment in new stadiums to get this one done. Local infrastructure support will likely need to be done though. (Parking, zoning, etc.)
  21. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My take on this is that Los Angeles is so spread out and diverse in its population that it doesn't have a strong enough sense of "community" to identify with a team. I am curious, though, how well pro soccer draws there -- I'm assuming L.A. has a pro soccer team.
  22. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Two, actually.
  23. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    It's a city of front runners. I am not trying to be mean, that's just the way it is. The NFL wants a team there because having a team in LA would probably lead to some higher television ratings. Any team that doesn't get a stadium deal they want would be a candidate... Chiefs and Saints come to mind...
  24. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I can't believe it took them this long to get their stadium built, but now that it has been built they are very secure in their current location. Imagine a stadium even worse that the old Foxboro Stadium. Now imagine sitting in it in the 100 degree Arizona sun. Take that fun filled gameday experience and move it into what is probably the nicest, most comfortable stadium in football.

    What's the result...? The **Cardinals** now have a waiting list for season ticket sales. Do not adjust your computer monitor, you read that right.
  25. godef

    godef Rookie

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    So they did. I would have sworn they never made it. Ah well, it's easy to forget the losers.
  26. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Probably won't be a long wait, though. :D
  27. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    You are correct. If there was a team in LA, the implication is that people in LA would watch more NFL football. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption.
  28. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    The second assumtion is that kids from 5-15 will become more loyal fans if they have a local team to root for. Thus continuing the fan base of the NFL.
  29. miDeuce

    miDeuce Rookie

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    As a resident of Los Angeles I don't see how this city cannot support a team if it's done right. If the improvements are made to the Coliseum we clearly have the venue and, I believe, the fan support. There are a lot of transplanted football fans out here that I know who have to make the drive to San Diego, Arizona, or San Fran/Oakland just to catch a game. I have already discussed getting season tickets when a team finally does get moved here. If we have an "average" size viewing audience and we don't even have a team I can only imagine that will improve once there is actually a team here. But from the looks of it we should have a team by 2010 and I for one can't wait.
  30. Tyler Faith

    Tyler Faith Rookie

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    I live here. I love football. If a team comes here, I imagine my man and I will get season tix as well just so we can see LIVE NFL every week.

    But the Colliseum. NO! It's in the middle of the hood, parking is horrible except in makeshift lots in front of crack house homes. The Rose Bowl would be a better option and the grass parkinglot caters to tailgating! A necessity with season tix! :)
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2006

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