Welcome to PatsFans.com

Why Do Unions Do This?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,876
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +193 / 3 / -10

    Here's my big question on unions....

    "Why do unions mandate that all workers with equal seniority make the same pay?"

    So a worker who is dedicated, reliable and motivated makes the same as worker with equal seniority who is lazy, forgetful and unreliable.

    Shouldn't unions WANT better workers to get better pay?

    I've never understood this philosophy because it seems bad for everyone but the crappy worker. If I worked for a union and was an exceptional worker, I'd hate the fact that the lazy dude working with me makes as much as I do.

    Would love to hear/see what a union worker/member thinks about this policy.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,876
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +193 / 3 / -10

    wow....21 reads and no one wants to comment?

    I thought I'd at least get one "Yeah PR, I work for a union and this frustrates the hell out of me!"

    But not one peep?

    Are union people actually ok with this?
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,768
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    Good workers get promoted in union shops faster than poor workers. In the construction trades, they get more jobs and better jobs. The good workers are employed even through bad times, while the poorer workers aren't given opportunities. Also, there is peer pressure in unions to do your fair share. I'm sure there are exceptions, as there are exceptions in non-union shops, but I don't think you can make a generalization. Most union workers don't like slackers since it only makes things more difficult for others. Are you talking about specific unions or unions in specific industries?
  4. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,876
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +193 / 3 / -10

    Yes, but my point is that a good worker and a below average worker don't deserve the same pay rate. Even an average worker shouldn't be paid as much as a good or exceptional worker.

    All the other points regarding promotions and getter better work are common sense as all industries do that.

    I'm just wondering why union workers tolerate equal pay for everyone.
  5. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,702
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -2

    #15 Jersey

    I don't know union policy, but in terms of promotion seniority should only be a consideration when all other variables are equal. Getting to stand for # years of service at an annual conference is one of it's benefits.
  6. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    It's simply easier on the union to have a 'this position pays this amount' system rather than variable increasing pay regardless of rank.

    Frankly it's impossible to have labor negotiations if there aren't set positions with their own pay.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,169
    Likes Received:
    128
    Ratings:
    +353 / 1 / -9

    I've been a Teamster for over 60 years, we never had this problem, we were all "stupid truck drivers" we spent most of our time figuring out new ways to drive bosses nuts.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,876
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +193 / 3 / -10

    Keep in mind unions don't pay the union members, their empoyers do. I'm sure the employers would rather see a pay structure based upon performance rather than number of years.

    Honestly, years shouldn't mean much if you're not a solid employee. Each pay grade should solely be based upon annual performance. Time shouldn't be rewarded without a performance assessment.
  9. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,558
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +33 / 12 / -2

    Their is no logic or fairness in the trade unions.
    I have a lot of friends that are in the trade unions, and I hear the stories
    all the time.

    We have to lay you off, but we are keeping Jamal and Pedro who are
    not very good workers and are not very good at their craft, but they do qualify as a minority.

    Sorry dude..... We need to make the numbers.

    The same guys have been out of work for so long, their unemployment
    has run out. One got caught working a non-union commercial job and
    they gave him a warning, that if he did not quit they would pull his book.

    They cannot give him work to feed his family, but they do not want him
    working a non-union job.

    On the other hand.... They have no problem with their guys doing residential
    work under the table, while they collect unemployment.

    * You can do residential work on the side, while you milk unemployment.

    * You cannot work a non-union legal commercial job that pays taxes and unemployment insurance to the state even after your unemployment runs out.

    I know this for a fact.... I was with my buddy when we ran into his B.A.
    at Duncan Donuts. Their conversation, was no secret.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,768
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    PR, there are so many different factors and models, and I don't think you can generalize.

    - In the construction trades, protection for older workers is important because they may suffer more physical constraints than younger workers. I think younger works in those trades understand and accept that, and hope to become long-time union workers as well.
    - In some professions, we can generalize and say with age comes some advantages. For examples, teachers are often better as they get older for a variety of reasons, including the general respect that kids have for older people. Thus, older teachers in many ways earn more because of the fact they are older, though in some ways they may not have to work as hard as younger teachers.

    In other words, there are many different ways to measure the value of an employee. But, if someone is just lazy, ultimately their colleagues, the employer, and union are not there for them. That said, in some unions they have a legal obligation to back their employees, such as in police unions, where unions are often obliged to provide legal services even to a cop who appears to be corrupt. (The old innocent to proven guilty thing.)

    In many cases, the benefits that union workers get outweighs the drawbacks. To know you have some job security, that your wages and benefits are pretty good for the industry you're in, that your employer can't treat you like crap, and so on have some real value to people.

    So, I don't think union workers really tolerate the lazy, and I do think that the best workers generally get some rewards. But, union workers will tolerate someone who works hard but may not be the best because they know what goes around comes around.
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,876
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +193 / 3 / -10

    I should have made it clear I am referring to private sector unions, not public sector unions.

    I would hope union guys don't tolerate lazy workers....I'm not a union worker, so I don't know. Lazy people should all be required to work jobs for lazy people.

    Like greeting people at Walmart....

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>