Why do so many people think Cassel was worth a first-rounder?

[DocE]

Matt Schaub with a much smaller resume went for significantly more than Matt Cassel. AJ Feeley went for a 2nd round pick. The Bucs just gave away a 2nd round pick for a TE with an injury history in Kellen Winslow. The Cowboys traded a no.1, no.3 and no.7 for WR Roy Williams. Last year the Texans were offered a 3rd round pick for Sage Rosenfels by the Vikings, but held out for a 2nd round pick.

Pick your favorite example out of the above and you come to the conclusion that a 26 year old Matt Cassel was worth more than a 2nd round draft pick. The compensation compared to recent trades made across the league was not equitable.

I would have been fine with the 2nd rounder this year and a player or the 2nd rounder this year and a 2nd or 3rd next year depending on how Cassel performs. The above trades still would have been light on compensation, but I wouldn't have been shocked. I am shocked that the Patriots were only able (or settled to early?) to acquire a single 2nd round draft pick for a starting QB.

Who is the last starting QB under the age of say 33-34 to be traded for less than what the Pats received for Cassel? I am trying to think of one and can't come up with one.

 

[OhExaulted1]

YOur telling me there isn't another Randy Mueller out there??


I don't get the wilfork and haynesworth comparison.. Apples and oranges..


read carefully.. we did NOT get value out of the trade.. We got a early 2nd rounder for a starting QB and starting OLB.. BB got fleeced on it..

I disagree. That 2 will be a 1 next year. And we sign Wilfork. These are shrewd moves by 2 guys who know and like each other. McDaniels will be the guy on the outside looking in. The Paxton robbery will not be ignored.

We got the #34 pick for a former 91 and 230 that will play in the AFC West. Plus we freed up like 19 million in cap space. Quit biatching, will 'ya?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hi, BB?

I'd like to offer a 1st round pick for Cassel!

What, you're not interested?

But it's a mid 1st round pick!

Oh, you'd rather take a high 2nd.

My bad.

G'bye.

The preceding is the conversation the avg unthinking poster here believes happened with BB this week. Sad.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I never thought he was worth a 1st unless we included ours in the deal. But I do think he was worth 2 2nds.

I don't care really. Getting a 2nd for for a 7th is pretty freaking good. Having 4 of the top 58 picks is even better. Then again having 3 in the top 47 is pretty good too. This surely cements our future as a team that is not going away anytime soon.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Hi, BB?

I'd like to offer a 1st round pick for Cassel!

What, you're not interested?

But it's a mid 1st round pick!

Oh, you'd rather take a high 2nd.

My bad.

G'bye.

The preceding is the conversation the avg unthinking poster here believes happened with BB this week. Sad.

It is sad and unthinking. This isn't ammunition for down the road? Expect a few more trades in the future between BB and Pioli and that will stop once we face each other in the playoffs.

Probably not this year, but next.

 

[j00fek]

because everyone thinks that pats players are untouchable?

 

[Patjew]

This just makes the fact that the Pats got a 1st for Branch even more amazing.

 

[Hardboiled]

Stop with the Matt Schaub comments. If anything that explains why someone wouldn't make the same trade now. Just because he happened, doesn't mean people look at that as a good trade.

Some posters think the league has a Matt Schaub rule. Must get more than a 2nd for a QB. See Matt Schaub rule.

 

[Pawn512]

One other item to throw on the fire... believe it or not the 34th pick is actually worth more than the 3rd pick. See this link

On the clock: Rationality — Behavioral biases in the NFL Draft Nudge blog

This is a much better deal than many might think

 

[patsfaninpa]

Schaub wasn't leaving for free-agency either. Our hands were tied. We let him walk. We get 97 next year. We tag him. We lose a lot of our bargaining power. The other gm's aren't stupid and about to help us. They knew Cassel's contract status. Ridiculous to compare his situation to the others.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Ditto.

Cassel was well worth that 2nd rounder. But him AND Vrabel for the #34? That was to much.

Vrabel has been crap for a few years. Don't give me that 12.5 sacks in 2007nonsense. He could not get pressure in games when it mattered, and we won't miss him. It was a salary dump. The 34th is practically a 1st rounder anyway.

 

[mcsully]

I disagree. That 2 will be a 1 next year. And we sign Wilfork. These are shrewd moves by 2 guys who know and like each other. McDaniels will be the guy on the outside looking in. The Paxton robbery will not be ignored.

We got the #34 pick for a former 91 and 230 that will play in the AFC West. Plus we freed up like 19 million in cap space. Quit biatching, will 'ya?

Another year to wait to build this defense.. And I'm glad you believe that.. Cause the chances of waiting a year to move up a few spots really doesn't excite me..

 

[Imperator]

Vrabel has been crap for a few years. Don't give me that 12.5 sacks in 2007nonsense. He could not get pressure in games when it mattered, and we won't miss him. It was a salary dump. The 34th is practically a 1st rounder anyway.

12.5 sacks is nonsense? lol ok.

Even if he's not a sack monster anymore he still added veteren leadership. It's just evident it was no longer needed above his cap hit anymore. That's it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I love the guy, but honestly, when was the last time a team traded a #1 for a one-year starter? Better question, if you were another team's GM, would you have traded your #1 for Cassel?

I don't want to hear about Schaub, by the way. Trading two #2's for Schaub is why the Texans are the Texans. It has no bearing on actual value.

Well, first off, its ignorant of you to restrict other people's reasoning when that reasoning is valid. Schaub has every bit of validity to this situation. He was a 5th year QB traded to another team after starting just a handful of games. In fact, even if you look at it from the point of just ONE 2nd round pick, you'd know that Cassel was worth more just by the virtue of his having started 2.5 times as many games as Schaub.

Personally, I think that your parameters are too limited and make it impossible for a valid counter-argument to be made. Can you tell me the last time ANY starting QB was traded for a 1st round pick. You have to go back to Bledsoe. What had Bledsoe done the 2 years prior to being traded. He played in 2 games (the first game of the season, half the 2nd game, and half the Pittsburgh play-off game). And the year prior, he'd posted a horrible 5-11 record. He proved that he wasn't very coachable and that his work ethic when the season was over was non-existant beyond his family.

So, what about prior to that? When was the last time a QB was traded for a 1st?

 

[primetime]

Because Cassel was a better QB than Jay Cutler last year yet Cutler is considered some up-and-coming superstar and franchise QB. The same Cutler who completely fell apart last year as his team choked away the AFC West that was in their hands.

I don't think it was bad value at all and I'm happy with the return now that I've had time to think it over, though I was a little perplexed at first.

 

[chrisfx811]

I had expected that Cassel was worth more than what we got.
However:

a. It's kind of shocking that the Pats had the luxury of franchising what is essentially their backup QB! We didn't have to tag a big time CB like last year, or a stud DT like Vince. We tagged what was the 2nd stringer and got a #34 for him.

b. It becomes suspect because some of us are still nervous regarding Brady's injury, not to mention the fact that Cassel did do a pretty good job of evolving into a good qb. Also, he's a heck of a lot more mobile than TfB. If Cassel had still been nothing more than a backup, and we got a #34 for him, we'd all be ecstatic.

In this market, I figured he'd be worth a bit more, but timing is everything. If you want the cap #s you have to move quickly. If you want to be a player in FA, you have to move quickly. If you want to pin all your hopes on the draft, you can afford to wait a bit longer.

IDK how FA works, in that are teams allowed to work deals for the players they want, then be under the # by a certain date, or do they always have to work within the framework of the cap. IOW, could the Pats have held onto Cassel for now, signed FAs, that technically put them over the #, then worked a deal on draft day?

 

[Rob0729]

Vrabel has been crap for a few years. Don't give me that 12.5 sacks in 2007nonsense. He could not get pressure in games when it mattered, and we won't miss him. It was a salary dump. The 34th is practically a 1st rounder anyway.

Vrabel almost single handily won the Pats the Steelers' game in 2007. Vrabel rendered Roethlisberger neutered because he shut down the right side of the pocket where Roethlisberger loves to scramble too. And Vrabel was being held on nearly every play. Don't give that Vrabel has been crap for several years.

I will give you that his 2007 season was a bit overrated because of his sack total, but he did have a solid season.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Im going to wait until after the draft before I decide quite how good or bad that deal was .. we all have no idea what their plans are, who they are taking to or what they want to do

What had happened if we'd tied up all our FA money and then been held to ransom at the draft?

As well as MC played last year all I can think about are those Miami, Jets and Seattle games where the D got shredded again and again. Vrabel, as good as he was, was gone last year and wasnt going to be better this. We needed at least 4 or 5 major upgrades at OLB,S, CB, TE and WR and if at the end of this deal we get that (we already have at RB and TE) then I will look back at this as a success

Remember every offseason, BB looks at where we failed last season and addresses it. Last year it was the D and he knows this that with picks and cap space this is his best chance to rebuild a D for the next 5-10 years

 

[DaBruinz]

The funny thing is that the Patriots are much better off moneywise

with the 34th pick (second round) than the 32nd pick(first round)

due to the rookie salary structure.

Would you please provide an example to support this? I ask because I am fairly certain you are, in fact, wrong on this account. Particularly because of the 5th year that the #32 pick gets and because of the fact that the #34 pick hits free agency just when they are starting to contribute.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well said.

People criticizing the trade need to recall Cassel's very strong bargaining position. I imagine he's getting paid a few million $ more than he would have gotten in the absence of the franchise tag. That cuts into his draft pick value a lot.

Once Cassel signed the Franchise Tender, he had no bargaining power. The Pats could send him where they wanted. I'm not sure how that cuts into their bargaining power unless you think that the team they sent him to wouldn't re-negotiate his deal and thereby let him become a free agent next year where they would have to either let him walk or put an RFA tag on him at the tune of 16.1 million next year. Whomever he was traded would have already had a new deal with Cassel in place prior to the trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have made it.