Why do so many people think Cassel was worth a first-rounder?

[cmasspatsfan]

Vrabel may have been about to be cut and this was the convenient

way to handle the situation.

Yes, and this was a way of showing some respect to Vrabel and he goes to a team that has the cap room and could use a veteran leader.
I wouldnt get to hung up on we traded Cassel AND Vrabel for the 34th, we traded Cassel for the 34th and this was a dignified way to let Vrabel go and use his cap money for something we need.

 

[condon84]

I love the guy, but honestly, when was the last time a team traded a #1 for a one-year starter? Better question, if you were another team's GM, would you have traded your #1 for Cassel?

I don't want to hear about Schaub, by the way. Trading two #2's for Schaub is why the Texans are the Texans. It has no bearing on actual value.

You have to look at the Schaub deal because that was the market. A few years ago, the Dolphins traded their 2nd round pick for AJ Feely based on a few good starts. A few years after, the Schaub deal took place. Cassel's value was a lot more based on the market set by other deals. My issue is that this seemed like a deal Bill only made because Pioli is in KC. The Pats are known around the leauge as shrewd negotiators and this seems like we undervalued the asset we gave up. Yes, an early second round pick is better because of the kind of salary we can negotiate, but it would have been nice to receive another pick as well. Hell, a 3rd, 4th or even 5th round picks would have been nice. Not to mention that we also gave Vrabel away. This deal seems like we got taken to the woodshed.

 

[Connecticut]

Is anyone taking into account Matt's own decision here?

We don't know the whole story at this point. Perhaps there were other offers on the table, and Matt just chose this one.

 

[mayoclinic]

That's an interesting statement. Many of us felt certain for months that the Pats would franchise Cassel, then trade him at the very beginning of the FA period to clear off his salary and dive into free agent signings. That, of course, is precisely what happened. And all of the reasons that we expected it to go fast are also reasons for the Pats to take whatever they could get, fast. It's very sensible to take the certainty and the cap space immediately rather than watch the FA pool dwindle as you try to squeeze an extra conditional 2010 pick out of somebody.

Two other passing thoughts:

- In this draft, #34 is a very attractive position. There's a vast, murky pool of talent starting around the teens, so I expect to see at least one player I'd consider at #23 still available at 34.

- Should the Lions have offered #20? Yes. Did they? We don't know, do we? All we know is that this is the best deal the Pats could swing early that Cassel also agreed to. So fine.

I'm not saying that the Pats didn't do the right thing. But if they believed that Cassel was a franchise-calibre QB (which is suggested by the fact that they tagged him for $14.5M; tagging him just to protect him as an asset doesn't make any sense unless you believe he has actual value at that range), then trading him and Vrabel for #34, even in this deep draft, is vastly underselling him. I think the FO realized all of this, but found that the cap hit of carrying Cassel was costing them more than they were willing to pay at this point, and decided that cutting a bargain deal early in FA was a better option than holding on to Cassel's cap hit and waiting for more suitors to heat up as the draft and training cap moved closer.

It's partly because of this that I wonder if the Pats are working on something else. Many thought they got "robbed" in 2007 when the traded #28 to SF for a 2008 1st (at a time when many people predicted SF was on the rise and would make the playoffs in 2007) and a 4th round pick; then they turned around and traded the 4th for Randy Moss. I just have a hunch that the Pats are working on something else - Julius Peppers is my best thought (though it could be something more basic like extending Wilfork) - and decided that they needed some flexibility under the cap to make it work. Just a hunch.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Why do we think he is worth a first? Because if you put him in the draft he would be the first player taken, without a doubt.

Spot on BSR, at least a top 5 pick. That being said #34 plus all our other picks (they haven't announced comp picks and I think we're looking at a 3,4 and 5) I think we're looking at 12 picks. Can't trade the comps but we have an awful lot of flexibility to get creative. I don't expect BB to draft 12 players this year.

 

[patchick]

I just have a hunch that the Pats are working on something else - Julius Peppers is my best thought (though it could be something more basic like extending Wilfork) - and decided that they needed some flexibility under the cap to make it work. Just a hunch.

Makes sense to me. Cap space is only valuable insofar as it lets you run out and use it up.

 

[Fixit]

The two guys in the league who know Cassel the best (who also just happen to be two of the smartest guys in the league) agreed on what he's worth. I think that says a lot.

 

[SVN]

You have to look at the Schaub deal because that was the market. A few years ago, the Dolphins traded their 2nd round pick for AJ Feely based on a few good starts. A few years after, the Schaub deal took place. Cassel's value was a lot more based on the market set by other deals. My issue is that this seemed like a deal Bill only made because Pioli is in KC. The Pats are known around the leauge as shrewd negotiators and this seems like we undervalued the asset we gave up. Yes, an early second round pick is better because of the kind of salary we can negotiate, but it would have been nice to receive another pick as well. Hell, a 3rd, 4th or even 5th round picks would have been nice. Not to mention that we also gave Vrabel away. This deal seems like we got taken to the woodshed.

yes that was market set by dumb gms. look at the 'market' set so far by the skins and raiders. doesnt mean everyteam has to follow the same logic. it may be a marketing pt for players and agents but just because they made those deals doesnt mean the pats got those offers. also feely and schaub havent done much after the trades so other teams wouldve learned from it. yes pats are smart and so is pioli but there are a few smart people elsewhere as well.
if the pats had waiting a month or 2 they wouldve probably gotten more but couldve gotten less too .You never know.Plus they couldnt have done anything with the cap space they were left with.

 

[mcsully]

Why is Cassel worth a first??


Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was
traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round
pick.


That's why!

 

[SVN]

I'm not saying that the Pats didn't do the right thing. But if they believed that Cassel was a franchise-calibre QB (which is suggested by the fact that they tagged him for $14.5M; tagging him just to protect him as an asset doesn't make any sense unless you believe he has actual value at that range), then trading him and Vrabel for #34, even in this deep draft, is vastly underselling him. I think the FO realized all of this, but found that the cap hit of carrying Cassel was costing them more than they were willing to pay at this point, and decided that cutting a bargain deal early in FA was a better option than holding on to Cassel's cap hit and waiting for more suitors to heat up as the draft and training cap moved closer.

It's partly because of this that I wonder if the Pats are working on something else. Many thought they got "robbed" in 2007 when the traded #28 to SF for a 2008 1st (at a time when many people predicted SF was on the rise and would make the playoffs in 2007) and a 4th round pick; then they turned around and traded the 4th for Randy Moss. I just have a hunch that the Pats are working on something else - Julius Peppers is my best thought (though it could be something more basic like extending Wilfork) - and decided that they needed some flexibility under the cap to make it work. Just a hunch.

i dont think they are working on anything big or exciting as much as we fans want to believe. pats are not going to trade away picks for big money. they will extend wilfork and maybe just maybe consider trading seymour for something or just hold on to the picks and use the draft.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

as good as a manager, runner, etc he was last year.. he was pitifully inept at the long ball.. no long ball - no first round compensation....

 

[SVN]

Why is Cassel worth a first??


Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was
traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round
pick.


That's why!

and the fins went downwards after that trade and randy mueller was eventually fired. iam sure other gm's saw the cons of such deals and learnt from it.
should pats pay wilkfork haynesworth money now that the skins have gone nuts ?

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes, and this was a way of showing some respect to Vrabel and he goes to a team that has the cap room and could use a veteran leader.
I wouldnt get to hung up on we traded Cassel AND Vrabel for the 34th, we traded Cassel for the 34th and this was a dignified way to let Vrabel go and use his cap money for something we need.

Bingo. ...

 

[mcsully]

and the fins went downwards after that trade and randy mueller was eventually fired. iam sure other gm's saw the cons of such deals and learnt from it.
should pats pay wilkfork haynesworth money now that the skins have gone nuts ?

YOur telling me there isn't another Randy Mueller out there??


I don't get the wilfork and haynesworth comparison.. Apples and oranges..


read carefully.. we did NOT get value out of the trade.. We got a early 2nd rounder for a starting QB and starting OLB.. BB got fleeced on it..

 

[SVN]

YOur telling me there isn't another Randy Mueller out there??


I don't get the wilfork and haynesworth comparison.. Apples and oranges..


read carefully.. we did NOT get value out of the trade.. We got a early 2nd rounder for a starting QB and starting OLB.. BB got fleeced on it..

so we wait for dumb gm's to make a dumb move. BB is smart but doesnt mean everyone else is completely dumb. yes they couldve gotten more but they couldve also gotten less a lot later with no money to extend anyone our team or draft someone or sign someone.

 

[nowayback]

he was worth more then a 1st.....but no one was smart enough exceept pioli.
so what do you do? wait and see...till the draft or get moving.

 

[WhiZa]

Why is Cassel worth a first?? Daunte Culpepper with blown-out knee was traded for a second-round pick. A.J. Feeley was traded for a second-round pick. That's why!

Don't forget Jacob Hester for a second round pick. What you said sums it up for me. Based on past history Cassel was worth at least a 2nd. To get a starting caliber LB/Hybrid who will make the rest of the team better on top of that should move it into the 1st.

When it's all said and done BB probably thought there is better value at the early second round. Maybe eyeing a specific safety? And who knows, maybe he was helping Pioli out

 

[Fanfrom1960]

I love the guy, but honestly, when was the last time a team traded a #1 for a one-year starter? Better question, if you were another team's GM, would you have traded your #1 for Cassel?

I don't want to hear about Schaub, by the way. Trading two #2's for Schaub is why the Texans are the Texans. It has no bearing on actual value.

Turn it around. How many first round quarterback picks have been completely worthless...duds out of the chute? 50%? KC is getting a much more known quantity QB than they would out of the draft. The only thing is I trust Bill Belichick, so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[mcsully]

Don't forget Jacob Hester for a second round pick. What you said sums it up for me. Based on past history Cassel was worth at least a 2nd. To get a starting caliber LB/Hybrid who will make the rest of the team better on top of that should move it into the 1st.

When it's all said and done BB probably thought there is better value at the early second round. Maybe eyeing a specific safety? And who knows, maybe he was helping Pioli out

Actually there was more to the Hester move.. And if we are helping Pioli out, were in trouble..

 

[brdmaverick]

Why did with think he was worth a first rounder?

BECAUSE HE IS

He is a better 'prospect' then most rookie QBs, who have varying success rates.