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Why do so many PatsFans rule out us going with 2 QBs?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Aug 30, 2008.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I've noted many of the roster predictions here, and additional comments where folks seem to rule out the notion of us going with only 2 QBs on the roster and I'm not sure why

    Given all the bubble players out there who have done everything they can to earn a roster spot - be they veterans who can still contribute or young up and coming players who we'd likely love to find some way to retain, can someone explain to me why a third string QB should take that player's place?

    I'm thinking of guys like CJ Jones, Matt Slater, Vince Redd, Gary Guyton - even Larry Izzo who could be on the bubble though I hope he's not. And that's not even getting into whether the team wants to keep 5 RBs instead of just 4.

    Do folks really think keeping Cassell or Guttierez is that critical? I just don't see it - if either player were cut today I think there's every chance both would still be available to be signed if Brady did suffer an injury and we needed a new backup. Although I know O'Connell largely played against 2nd and 3rd stringers at best, I think he still showed that he's as good as either of them and has much more upside (aside from being a 3rd round pick who isn't going anywhere this year) and of course he actually has more real game experience than Cassell.

    So why are so many fans discounting going with 2 QBs - especially given the fact that Belichick has already set the precedent and done so before? Is it simply the prospect of losing 2 QBs in one game?

    I'm not getting it. (That being said, if BB keeps three, I absolutely trust his reasoning! ;))
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  2. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    O'Connell being a rookie is the main reason. Now the defenses stop being vanilla.

    Routinely being able to stash a 3rd QB on the game-day inactve list is another.

    Brady's injury is a third reason.

    The questionable O-line health is a fourth.

    The investments both in O'Connell (3 round pick) and Cassell (3years of grooming) is a 5th reason.
  3. DSal

    DSal Old fart and proud of it!

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    I've thought that as well. It just seems that losing one of Slater, Redd, or Guyton would be more of a loss than losing Guttierez or Cassel. However I also understand the risk that the Pats would be taking by moving this way. With Brady's injury history over his entire career, I say take the risk - these young defensive guys certainly could be the future sitting right in the team's hands.
  4. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    We all know O'Connell will remain on the roster but he is only a rookie and the best a rookie can do on this team is be third string.

    If there were 3 veterans on the team prior to this year and not drafting a QB then having only 2 might have been possible but with a rookie in the mix you need a guy in between

    Hopefully that #2 is not a pathetic waste as Cassel is at this point
  5. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    After watching the preseason games, I'm starting to lean in that

    direction. Neither Cassel or Gutierrez is worthy of being on the roster.

    Pick up another quarterback after the cutdown for the practice squad.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And BB never drafts linebackers in the first three rounds.

    My point is this--if BB thinks it's in the team's best interests to have only 12 and O'Connell on the roster, that's what he'll do. I'd put the odds at <5%, but not zero.

    I also think, BTW, that Slater is not on the bubble; he hasn't looked clueless at all. [Remember, last year was an aberration, and should not be looked at as a model for how cutdowns will go this year. :) ]
  7. strongside

    strongside Rookie

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    the problem is o'connell. He showed some promise but is not ready to be a #2. He probably at this point can only run 50% of the playbook. Even if they wack goots and cassell they would have to bring in a vet to be #2. Either way its 3 QB's this year
  8. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Any quarterback who replaced Brady would only run 50% of the

    playbook.
  9. Rob0729

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    Unless they IR O'Connell, there is next to no shot at only two QBs on the roster. If O'Connell isn't IRed, there is a better chance the Pats go with 4 QBs than 2 QBs.

    I can't see there being any way that Belichick would go with only Brady and O'Connell. Maybe next year.

    O'Connell has a lot of raw talent, but he still needs to work on his mechanics and fundamentals a bit. He isn't ready to be a #2 QB.
  10. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Too risky. Chance of losing a game that could be managed to a W.
    Stashing the cut QBs on the shadow roster they might still be available, but it forces BB to play O'C if Brady gets injured during a game. The 2008 O'C is too raw to 'manage' a game. One of the other 2 would give a better chance of success in managing a D inspired W.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  11. Tyler.Durden

    Tyler.Durden Rookie

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    Rookie won't be #2 QB.

    Although, it's not as though he will be game planned against.

    We still need a backup that knows the personnel and the playbook well.

    Give O'Connell a year in the system.

    I am a real big fan of his, and is my #2 in terms of raw skills, but just lacks experience, but i think Cassell will make the cut.
  12. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    Well we really have zero clue how healthy Brady is, or how susceptible he is to re-injury.

    Mainly I think many of us don't want to end up with 1 rookie QB and 1 injured superstar.

    Personally I'm also not entirely worried about losing either Guyton or Redd, as I'm perhaps the only person who hasn't been overly impressed with either.
  13. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    Again if there is no better alternative for Gootz, like a Chris Simms or Damon Huard. ( ps I dont want Dante Culpepper near this team).. Belichick picked Gootz over a guy he really likes in Vinny Testeverde.. He Is a fan of his. Which is why there will be 3 qb' on the roster..
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    If we're to go by the preseason, my assessment is that the Rookie gives us a better chance to win than any of the veterans.

    Don't forget, even with 0 regular season NFL games under his belt O'Connell currently has much more experience playing QB in actual games than Matt Cassell does today.

    And even with hardly any college starts, Belichick was still willing to take the risk of having Cassell be the only backup in 2006 - bringing in a veteran late in the season.

    If there's an actual proven veteran available after cuts I could see him coming in ahead of O'Connell - but I think I'd be ok waiting until later in the season as they did with Testeverde
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) The primary issue is coming in for Brady during a game. If Gute is on the Practice Squad he could be available for the NEXT game.

    2) We should want the ability for Brady to sit late in the game, or even for a game or two if he has mild injuries. There shouldn't be huge pressure to play and risk further injury no matter the importance of the situation.

    My preference is a veteran. A veteran could learn 1/2 the playbook in less than a week, and then the rest by the bye week.
  16. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the perfect world after having seen Cassie & Gutz on field this summer I believe that BB's 'do-over' preference would be a sympatico vet. However, at this point there is no vet available that is compatible with BB's approach that would be a lock as an upgrade to those 2. And no, BB is not desperate enough to trade a low pick for a backup on someone's 53.

    Therefore either Cassie or Gutz stays. My vote is that Gutz goes to the PS and Cassel is the #2.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  17. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Here is one possibility: keep Brady and O'Connell.

    Sign Cassel or Gurtz to the practice squad.

    If Brady goes down during the game our rookie takes over. If Brady is unable to start the game activate the vet.
  18. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Firstly..that is hardly a good assessment..preseason says a bit, but what O'Connell sees in a real game is a bit above what he's seen with 2s and 3s..The other 2 have played in some real games. Frankly, I am not really sure which of the other 2 would be better .I would almost think a vet is the way to go.
    actual games?? Don't even try and compare a college game to the pros...Cassel has been here over 3 years..O'Cobbel..a few months. NO comparison/
    Actually it was closer to halfway in...and Cassel had a FULL YEAR of camp a season and then another camp...O'Connell has had only a few months.
    There is NO WAY that CoachB will have O'Connell as the backup..and ANY coach of good standing would NEVER do that. Yes, IF a rookie QB was brought in to BE the back up, he would have played early, starting in at least 1, 2 of the preseason games, not playing against the 2d and 3s. as O'Connell has done. THAT is why they will have 3 QBs...overwise, it might be a REAl disaster.
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I really have a tough time completely discounting O'Connell's experience actually playing in college over Cassell's experience holding a clip board in college and the pros.

    Cassell has 19 career college receptions.

    O'Connell had 15 TDs and more than 3000 yards passing against guys who were trying to stop and hurt him last year alone.

    Cassell hasn't played for more than a few token downs in blowout games since he was in high school.

    I think you're giving way too much credit to Cassell's experience holding a clip board. I honestly would be more concerned about Cassell being the #2 at this point than O'Connell and I do give O'Connell the edge over Cassell for facing real, live competition for the last 4 years for nearly 7700 yards and 46 TDs.

    No one thinks O'Connell was brought in to be the #2 QB this year - but his performance on the field suggests he's better than Cassell and maybe Gutierrez.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    Which #1 defense did he destroy?
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