Why didn't we draft Everette Brown?

[Deus Irae]

Look at Jon Beason. Slow, redflag forty at the combine, 4.77.

Undersized at 6'0", 237. How's he been doing? Jon Beason - Carolina Panthers He's a freakin' beast.

More productive than the other Hurricane drafted 2007 on the defensive side, Brandon Merriweather? Yep. Mike Reiss thinks so, too. Ask Reiss: What's in your fave five?

Sometimes the "system" has to make way for the players, even when they don't fit the prototype.

There was a time people believed the immobile, pocket passer like Brady was an obsolete facet of the game. Michael Vick was the NFL's future.

The game's played by the players, not the calculators.

Hmmm......

He's got the height, weight, and certainly the speed Belichick is looking for.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Look at Jon Beason. Slow, redflag forty at the combine, 4.77.

Undersized at 6'0", 237. How's he been doing? Jon Beason - Carolina Panthers He's a freakin' beast.

More productive than the other Hurricane drafted 2007 on the defensive side, Brandon Merriweather? Yep. Mike Reiss thinks so, too. Ask Reiss: What's in your fave five?

Sometimes the "system" has to make way for the players, even when they don't fit the prototype.

There was a time people believed the immobile, pocket passer like Brady was an obsolete facet of the game. Michael Vick was the NFL's future.

The game's played by the players, not the calculators.

OMFG!!! Ive been trying to say this for the past 4 months and nobody gets it. All I hear is "This player is to dumb to play for us." when they cant think of a good excuse for why they dont want a player on the team. If you have an athlete you try and do everything you can to help him succeed. I wanted E.Brown and I think we should have drafted him but its over and we have Brace now. I like how we draft players for our system but call me crazy but I think it needs some more athletes (we havnt won a superbowl in the last 4 seasons.)I am happy with our draft for the most part but we will never know until 2-3 years down the line on who we should and shouldnt have picked. We have a system that works but we need some better players to run the system.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You know why people are arguing that he doesn't have the prototypical attributes that Belichick looks for? Because you started this thread by stating that he did have those attributes. And, as usual, you had absolutely no idea what you were talking about.

 

[PatsBoy12]

State, would you stop with the f*cking OLB threads already. We get it, you're not happy with it. Oh well. We've got what we've got. I reckon that it's probably not even worth all the attention you think it's worth. I hardly think that we're going to sink or swim with who is playing OLB this season.

Why stop here. Why didn't we draft Ware? Why didn't we draft Peppers? Why didn't we draft Matthews? Why didn't we draft Maualuga? Why didn't we draft Maybin? Why didn't we draft Barwin? Who knows? One could go on and on, but BB obviously didn't see the right reason(s). If I had to choose between your judgment or his, well . . . I'll take the guy who is considered to be one of the greatest coaches of all-time.

 

[BradyFTW!]

(we havnt won a superbowl in the last 4 seasons.)

Yeah, seriously, what the **** is up with that? How dare we go four entire seasons without winning a super bowl?? Unacceptable.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Why didn't we draft Everette Brown?

Maybe because WE don't make the decisions.

:agree:

Post of the day.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

OMFG!!! Ive been trying to say this for the past 4 months and nobody gets it. All I hear is "This player is to dumb to play for us." when they cant think of a good excuse for why they dont want a player on the team. If you have an athlete you try and do everything you can to help him succeed. I wanted E.Brown and I think we should have drafted him but its over and we have Brace now. I like how we draft players for our system but call me crazy but I think it needs some more athletes (we havnt won a superbowl in the last 4 seasons.)I am happy with our draft for the most part but we will never know until 2-3 years down the line on who we should and shouldnt have picked. We have a system that works but we need some better players to run the system.

Bro! What up? I'm right there with you. I think BB has been pretty picky when it comes to drafting LB's. It seems like he expects every prospect to be 6-4 250 pounds and knows football like the back of his hand. Hate to break it to BB, but that LB probably isn't going to walking through that door anytime soon.

And your right on about adapting to what is available instead of holding out for what you think will be available. In fact, the most recent "prototypical" OLB's coming out of the draft were Ware and Merriman in '05. If you are having a problem finding LB's to fit your defense, don't think it's time to adapt to the player instead? If not, you will become insane. According to some people on this board, **** LeBeau "dumbs down his system", giving his players less responsibilities which allows them to succeed. If I'm BB, I take a page directly out of LeBeau's playbook and try to design a defense similar to his. This is a copycat league, but BB obviously thinks his system is better than anyone else's.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Yeah, seriously, what the **** is up with that? How dare we go four entire seasons without winning a super bowl?? Unacceptable.

Yeah haha right WTF is up with that. Hmmm I guess we have some work to do instead of talking about teams of the decade and whos better Manning or Brady. Seriously who gives two F**ks whos better all I care about is if my favorite team wins the SB. Something that the steelers have done twice since our last one. Oh what a coincidence the last four teams two win the SB all had great pass rushers....Steelers-Porter/Harrison, Colts-Freeny/Mathis, Giants-Strahan/Osi/Tuck, Steelers-Harrison/Woodley,???Patriots-AD/Willy Whistle ****...Yeah I think not. Face it, since the Decade turned over the Steelers have been "The Team".

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Steelers-Porter/Harrison, Colts-Freeny/Mathis, Giants-Strahan/Osi/Tuck, Steelers-Harrison/Woodley,???Patriots-AD/Willy Whistle ****...

That was pretty damn funny.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yeah haha right WTF is up with that. Hmmm I guess we have some work to do instead of talking about teams of the decade and whos better Manning or Brady. Seriously who gives two F**ks whos better all I care about is if my favorite team wins the SB. Something that the steelers have done twice since our last one. Oh what a coincidence the last four teams two win the SB all had great pass rushers....Steelers-Porter/Harrison, Colts-Freeny/Mathis, Giants-Strahan/Osi/Tuck, Steelers-Harrison/Woodley,???Patriots-AD/Willy Whistle ****...Yeah I think not. Face it, since the Decade turned over the Steelers have been "The Team".

Since the decade turned over, we've won 3 SBs, set a ton of records, had the longest winning streak in history (twice), and more. Dunno wtf you're smoking, but you have no idea what you're talking about. BTW, my whole point is that none of us have any idea if Crable or Woods can bring it as a pass rusher. Woodley is a second-year player. At the start of the 2007 season, Tuck was a third-year guy who had 40 career solo tackles. James Harrison, before he became the DPOY, was an UDFA who bounced around the league for years.

I think we all agree that the Pats need to be able to rush the passer. The difference is that you live in some fairy tale where we can just sign all-world players at every position, and where we never need an unproven young guy to step up and prove his worth. All of those pass-rushing tandems had that happen, and now the Pats need it too.

If you were a Steelers fan, you would have been over on the board this past offseason freaking out over how the Steelers should have re-signed Joey Porter in 2006, rather than trust their pass rush to some second-year player with only 4 career sacks (Woodley).

If anything, the Giants and Steelers are case in point: to develop a strong pass rush, you need to have room for your Crables and Woods's to step up and prove their worth. We're going to see Meriweather, Mayo, Seymour, and Thomas all getting after the QB this year, and if some combination of TBC/Crable/Woods produces meaningful results alongside them, then we have the potential to develop a scary-good pass rush.

 

[spacecrime]

We nabbed Ron Brace as "insurance" at 40. He's supposedly a one-dimensional player. There are persistent questions about conditioning.

That's was the knock on Seymour when he was drafted, except that his work ethic was also questioned.

Will you just chill the hell out? Training camp hasn't even started yet. Isn't it a little early to find fault with the draft?

You really crack me up. You read a one-paragraph synopsis of a player in a draft magazine and suddenly you have more info than a 50-man staff dedicated to scouting.

We all have binkies we wanted drafted. None of us understand all of the picks made. Most of us will acknowledge that our picks are tinged more with emotion and intuition than factual information.

What you are missing is that most teams have a draft philosophy in place. No one hits on all players. But a team has a plan that they hope will have tham hit on more than they miss. The Pats plan is working just fine. What team would you think has done better that the Pats on the field this decade?

 

[Patjew]

I guess the answer to the OP's question is "because the Patriots' coaches and scouts did not consider him a good fit for the team."

What the hell other reason could there be?

 

[Patjew]

That's was the knock on Seymour when he was drafted, except that his work ethic was also questioned.

Will you just chill the hell out? Training camp hasn't even started yet. Isn't it a little early to find fault with the draft?

You really crack me up. You read a one-paragraph synopsis of a player in a draft magazine and suddenly you have more info than a 50-man staff dedicated to scouting.

We all have binkies we wanted drafted. None of us understand all of the picks made. Most of us will acknowledge that our picks are tinged more with emotion and intuition than factual information.

What you are missing is that most teams have a draft philosophy in place. No one hits on all players. But a team has a plan that they hope will have tham hit on more than they miss. The Pats plan is working just fine. What team would you think has done better that the Pats on the field this decade?

Hey, you got mad at me for saying the same exact thing once.

But I agree with you.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Since the decade turned over, we've won 3 SBs, set a ton of records, had the longest winning streak in history (twice), and more. Dunno wtf you're smoking, but you have no idea what you're talking about. BTW, my whole point is that none of us have any idea if Crable or Woods can bring it as a pass rusher. Woodley is a second-year player. At the start of the 2007 season, Tuck was a third-year guy who had 40 career solo tackles. James Harrison, before he became the DPOY, was an UDFA who bounced around the league for years.

I think we all agree that the Pats need to be able to rush the passer. The difference is that you live in some fairy tale where we can just sign all-world players at every position, and where we never need an unproven young guy to step up and prove his worth. All of those pass-rushing tandems had that happen, and now the Pats need it too.

If you were a Steelers fan, you would have been over on the board this past offseason freaking out over how the Steelers should have re-signed Joey Porter in 2006, rather than trust their pass rush to some second-year player with only 4 career sacks (Woodley).

If anything, the Giants and Steelers are case in point: to develop a strong pass rush, you need to have room for your Crables and Woods's to step up and prove their worth. We're going to see Meriweather, Mayo, Seymour, and Thomas all getting after the QB this year, and if some combination of TBC/Crable/Woods produces meaningful results alongside them, then we have the potential to develop a scary-good pass rush.

BradyFTW, you never cease to amaze me (most of the time). Seriously, your commentary always brings perspective and I can tell that although you're probably a die-hard fan, you still attempt to approach things objectively and sensibly. Thanks. It's very refreshing. Needless to say, I agree with this post and many of the others I've read.

This past day or so of reading various posts has made it ridiculously obvious that there is a growing contingent of fans panicking about the LB situation. It has also made it painfully obvious that BB and staff really don't know anything about real football players, especially not those that fit their grossly overrated and lackluster, ineffective system. These posts make it obvious that the Patriots have a long way to go before they win anything at all, much less a SB. And here are at the end of training camp with the first game of the season to start in a week and no clear answers at LB.

 

[BradyFTW!]

BradyFTW, you never cease to amaze me (most of the time). Seriously, your commentary always brings perspective and I can tell that although you're probably a die-hard fan, you still attempt to approach things objectively and sensibly. Thanks. It's very refreshing. Needless to say, I agree with this post and many of the others I've read.

This past day or so of reading various posts has made it ridiculously obvious that there is a growing contingent of fans panicking about the LB situation. It has also made it painfully obvious that BB and staff really don't know anything about real football players, especially not those that fit their grossly overrated and lackluster, ineffective system. These posts make it obvious that the Patriots have a long way to go before they win anything at all, much less a SB. And here are at the end of training camp with the first game of the season to start in a week and no clear answers at LB.

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. I think the majority of this board is pretty even-tempered and rational about all of this, but, as in most walks of life, the vocal minority is going to find a way to dominate the conversation. I like most of the people on this board a lot, and like the discussions that we have most of the time. I was going to say that it's particularly bad this time of year, since you have so many people throwing around wild claims that are based on literally nothing (we haven't seen the 2009 Patriots in any capacity yet), but I took it back pretty much as soon as I thought it. The first time the Pats give up a third-and-long conversion in preseason, let alone the regular season, it'll get worse. At least then, though, opinions will be based on actual plays, even if those opinions are likely to be comically massive overreactions.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Since the decade turned over, we've won 3 SBs, set a ton of records, had the longest winning streak in history (twice), and more. Dunno wtf you're smoking, but you have no idea what you're talking about. BTW, my whole point is that none of us have any idea if Crable or Woods can bring it as a pass rusher. Woodley is a second-year player. At the start of the 2007 season, Tuck was a third-year guy who had 40 career solo tackles. James Harrison, before he became the DPOY, was an UDFA who bounced around the league for years.

I think we all agree that the Pats need to be able to rush the passer. The difference is that you live in some fairy tale where we can just sign all-world players at every position, and where we never need an unproven young guy to step up and prove his worth. All of those pass-rushing tandems had that happen, and now the Pats need it too.

If you were a Steelers fan, you would have been over on the board this past offseason freaking out over how the Steelers should have re-signed Joey Porter in 2006, rather than trust their pass rush to some second-year player with only 4 career sacks (Woodley).

If anything, the Giants and Steelers are case in point: to develop a strong pass rush, you need to have room for your Crables and Woods's to step up and prove their worth. We're going to see Meriweather, Mayo, Seymour, and Thomas all getting after the QB this year, and if some combination of TBC/Crable/Woods produces meaningful results alongside them, then we have the potential to develop a scary-good pass rush.

Since the second half of the decade the Pats haven't won S**t. Is that clear enough for you? The Steelers have won S**T. We Clear on that? You may like all those records and pretty stats because they make Brady and the Offense look cute but it doesn't mean anything to me nor does it mean anything to any true football player. You are absolutely right in that none of us have know what Crable can do and I hope he succeeds but why should I just give him the benefit of the doubt? Fact is he was a third round pick. every team passed on him multiple times as did the same teams pass on Everette Brown. How the hell do you know what we are going to see from Meriweather, Mayo, Seymour, and the Joe Schmoes we have at OLB? TBC got a chance in San Fran and what did he do? Woods has been around for 3 seasons and hasn't shown me enough to believe that he is the answer at OLB and Crable is an unknown, hes never seen action in a meaningful NFL game so has E.Brown but I belive that Brown has more potential just by watching the two play.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. I think the majority of this board is pretty even-tempered and rational about all of this, but, as in most walks of life, the vocal minority is going to find a way to dominate the conversation. I like most of the people on this board a lot, and like the discussions that we have most of the time. I was going to say that it's particularly bad this time of year, since you have so many people throwing around wild claims that are based on literally nothing (we haven't seen the 2009 Patriots in any capacity yet), but I took it back pretty much as soon as I thought it. The first time the Pats give up a third-and-long conversion in preseason, let alone the regular season, it'll get worse. At least then, though, opinions will be based on actual plays, even if those opinions are likely to be comically massive overreactions.

I hear you, and to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that there weren't even-tempered and rational people here. Like you, I sit back sometimes and marvel at the good, clear commentary. However, like you said, the vocal minority always seem to tip the scales in a little too much. Ah well. I guess it also makes things somewhat exciting, albeit frustrating at times.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Since the second half of the decade the Pats haven't won S**t. Is that clear enough for you? The Steelers have won S**T. We Clear on that?

Hey check it out guys, we're talking to an

You may like all those records and pretty stats because they make Brady and the Offense look cute but it doesn't mean anything to me nor does it mean anything to any true football player.

It means quite a bit to a lot of true football players.

You are absolutely right in that none of us have know what Crable can do and I hope he succeeds but why should I just give him the benefit of the doubt? Fact is he was a third round pick. every team passed on him multiple times as did the same teams pass on Everette Brown.

So what? You know who else was a 3rd round pick? Justin Tuck. Woodley was a mid-2nd rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Just because every team passed on a guy doesn't mean that he can't be good, and doesn't even mean that multiple teams didn't like him a lot. And I only bring those names up because they're the specific guys that you keep harping on.

How the hell do you know what we are going to see from Meriweather, Mayo, Seymour, and the Joe Schmoes we have at OLB?

I'm making an educated guess based on the fact that we've already seen it fro them. Or maybe you missed the part where Seymour got 8 sacks (more than any other 3-4 d-lineman in the league), Mayo said that he's going to be rushing the passer more this year, and where Meriweather got 2 sacks in the last 4 weeks after the secondary shored up a bit. I don't know any of this for a fact, but at least I'm basing it on something.

TBC got a chance in San Fran and what did he do?

Different scheme, different responsibilities. He has a track record as being a competent third-down pass rusher in this system. Don't know if he can replicate it this year, but he doesn't necessarily have to. We only need 1 or 2 of these ifs to come through.

Woods has been around for 3 seasons and hasn't shown me enough to believe that he is the answer at OLB and Crable is an unknown, hes never seen action in a meaningful NFL game so has E.Brown but I belive that Brown has more potential just by watching the two play.

Ok, so which is it? Brown has never seen action in an NFL game either, and Crable had a lot of success in college too. As a super-awesome extra bonus, Crable has a year of professional coaching and education in the Pats' system. And you know why you didn't see a lot from Woods last year? Because his jaw was broken. It's not anymore.

Obviously, none of these guys are sure things, but the fact that you're still harping on that just shows how appallingly low your reading comprehension is, since I addressed this at length in the post that you quoted. Maybe if I put it in bold you'll get it? Probably not, but it's worth a shot I guess: every team has question marks. Even the examples that you cited had massive question marks leading into the seasons that you mentioned. Woods hasn't shown any less, from the perspective a fan, than Woodley had in 2008 pre-TC or Tuck had in 2007 pre-TC. Neither had proven that they were starters in the league, and you know why? Because it's impossible to prove anything until you're put in a position to prove it. Pierre is being put in a position to prove that he's a starter. If he can't do it, we have other guys who will get a crack at it.

If that's the biggest question mark that your team has, you're in pretty good shape. If you'd been a Pats fan before they started winning SBs, you'd understand that.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Woods has been around for 3 seasons and hasn't shown me enough to believe that he is the answer at OLB and Crable is an unknown, hes never seen action in a meaningful NFL game so has E.Brown but I belive that Brown has more potential just by watching the two play.

Exactly. You believe (correct spelling). You don't know. None of us knows a damn thing. The games are played on the field. Can we all agree that then, and only then, will any of us know what Woods has to give? Then, and only then, will we know just how vulnerable the Patriots are at that position, as well as any other position. I'm not harping on anyone, but c'mon. It's been said, but I'll reiterate that we haven't even made it to TC yet. That's still pretty a little less than a month away. Let's all calm down, take a breath, and just relax. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team is in good hands, don't you think?

 

[TriplecHamp]

Hey check it out guys, we're talking to an

It means quite a bit to a lot of true football players.

You must have not played football because if you did you would know that it dosnt mean anything, all that matters is that you end up on the left hand side of the scorecard and eventually win it all.


So what? You know who else was a 3rd round pick? Justin Tuck. Woodley was a mid-2nd rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Just because every team passed on a guy doesn't mean that he can't be good, and doesn't even mean that multiple teams didn't like him a lot. And I only bring those names up because they're the specific guys that you keep harping on.

Are we now comparing Justin Tuck, Lamarr woodley and James Harrison to Crable, TBC, and Woods?

I'm making an educated guess based on the fact that we've already seen it fro them. Or maybe you missed the part where Seymour got 8 sacks (more than any other 3-4 d-lineman in the league), Mayo said that he's going to be rushing the passer more this year, and where Meriweather got 2 sacks in the last 4 weeks after the secondary shored up a bit. I don't know any of this for a fact, but at least I'm basing it on something.

Yeah I also missed the part where we were Very average in the Pass Rush Category. If it was as easy as you said it was why didnt we do it last year? Mayo may blitz more and so may Merriweather and then again they may not. With the additions of springs and company will it be better? I would hope so but Mayo was good in coverage last year and I dont know that he will be "tinkered" with too much.


Different scheme, different responsibilities. He has a track record as being a competent third-down pass rusher in this system. Don't know if he can replicate it this year, but he doesn't necessarily have to. We only need 1 or 2 of these ifs to come through.

If he was so "Competent" then why did we let him walk so easily?

Ok, so which is it? Brown has never seen action in an NFL game either, and Crable had a lot of success in college too. As a super-awesome extra bonus, Crable has a year of professional coaching and education in the Pats' system. And you know why you didn't see a lot from Woods last year? Because his jaw was broken. It's not anymore.

Brown had 23 sacks in his career 13.5 in his last season, He was a RS Junior.
Crable had 17 sacks in his career as a RS Senior 7 in his last season. Have you seen both play?

Obviously, none of these guys are sure things, but the fact that you're still harping on that just shows how appallingly low your reading comprehension is, since I addressed this at length in the post that you quoted. Maybe if I put it in bold you'll get it? Probably not, but it's worth a shot I guess: every team has question marks. Even the examples that you cited had massive question marks leading into the seasons that you mentioned. Woods hasn't shown any less, from the perspective a fan, than Woodley had in 2008 pre-TC or Tuck had in 2007 pre-TC. Neither had proven that they were starters in the league, and you know why? Because it's impossible to prove anything until you're put in a position to prove it. Pierre is being put in a position to prove that he's a starter. If he can't do it, we have other guys who will get a crack at it.

If that's the biggest question mark that your team has, you're in pretty good shape. If you'd been a Pats fan before they started winning SBs, you'd understand that.

Before you question my reading comp Id just like to let you know I scored a 720 on my critical reading. I am aslo not dumb enough to think that that is our biggest question mark. In case you forgot...1)Brady is comming back from a serious injury.2) Our projected starting Corners are both newcomers.3) The Depth at LB is very questionable.4) We lack a consistant pass rush....Hmm I think thats four question marks that can be considerd the biggest depending on who you are talking to. Oh and I can use google to find pictures too, look....