Why are the PATS and BB so hesitant to get a deep threat?

[Elijah T.]

We can debate priority all day, it all depends on your perspective.

We're still not sure what alignment BB wants to install long term. The system change's needs based on the players ability in each alignment. The back-end is important but what is McCourty? Dowling was a high pick and actually won the starting job over Bodden in camp, so we should assume he'll be healthy. Arrington would be a good nickel.

When you think about our offense, it was completely one dimensional. Passing game dominant with throws 1-15 yards inside the numbers. It was highly effective because we have very good inside personnel, but when we were challenged by good defenses we stalled early and often.

Not a 'deep threat', but a 'complete' receiver is just as important to the entire team's production as any one position on defense.

 

[jnug]

The interesting thing about some of the other positional needs that the Pats have is that in some cases those are also positions that BB does not particularly like to draft for although I guess there is FA as well.

For example, I think we all believe we need a stud D-lineman as an End but that is another position that BB seems to be reluctant to use a draft pick to fill. I would be more inclined to think BB might be willing to draft a linebacker that can move to a down lineman position as well. He likes those players that can fill more than one slot on the team and can be something of a swingman.

I think we can use a corner as well. We might have finally found some solutions for safety especially if Chung can stay healthy.

Center is an interesting situation as we seem to have the position partially filled but we do need another Center.

While it might be another one of those drafts where BB does not really conform to what we want (probably a good thing) I suspect he will try to bring in one guy anyway that could be an added piece to the receiver corp.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

The only one we have ever had was Moss in 2007 and look what it did to Brady? He had a record year and we almost attained perfection. But that was a Moss we got for a 4th rounder and past his prime. Why can't the PATS ever get a legitimate WR/deep threat early in the draft or via trade? Brady would still be able to do wonders like in 2007 with a big time WR who can make plays to make it easy for the poor guy. We go back to get a washed up Branch and some amazing Tight Ends but that doesn't cut it. We need play maker WRs.

Remember when the Steelers won a few years back and Ben made that throw to Santonio and his unbelievable catch! We need someone like that. I do hope that BB understands this and gets a legit WR and not someone who is either washed up or a very late draft pick that could go either way.

TB is getting up there and we need a "NOW" mentality for the next few years to enable TB and the PATS to get atleast one if not more rings because after TB retires - not sure what's in store for us.....

Steelers know how to draft and develop RB, WR and LB's, period.

Swann, Stallworth, Santonio, Charles Johnson, Yancy Thigpen, Louis Lipps, Plax, Hines Ward, now Wallace, Antonio Brown. They've had some duds, but for the most part they've done good job on skill positions

Pats suck at drafting and developing WR, that's all. Only WR Patriots drafted and really developed was Stanley Morgan....after him the start of death spiral with Irving Fryar, and 30 years later, same story. Some mild success inbetween, 1 year of Terry Glenn, couple years of Branch, but no breakaway threat.

 

[letekro]

Think of what the word priority means; it refers to what is of the higher or highest importance.


Upgrading almost every position on defense is, in my opinion, a higher priority than upgrading wide receiver.


It is not a case of our being happy or satisfied with the production from Branch and Edelman. It is just a case of being realistic in how much can be done to improve the team in one off-season, and what areas are most in need of improvement.


In a perfect world yes, I would like to upgrade every single position on the team - including wide receiver. The reality is that if the team goes out and signs Mike Wallace, for example, then they will end up losing both a first round draft pick as well as a great deal of cap space that it will take to extend him. Similarly if they sign Colston, Bowe, Jackson or any of the other names being thrown out there then that vastly limits the ability to sign a corner, safety, linebacker or lineman that could make a genuine difference to improving the defense that despite improvement of the course of the year, still is not of championship caliber.


Think of it this way: for every action there is a reaction. Adding an elite wide receiver means the team is pretty much out of the running for adding an elite defender. Which of the two sides of the ball does the team need to improve on the most? The 4th-ranked offense, or the 15th-ranked defense?

You said it yourself--"most in need of improvement". Branch and Edelman are the worst duo in the league, by a wide measure. And, on top of that, there's no depth behind them. This is arguably (definitely) worse than the situation in 2006, when BB blew up the receiving core. There is no unit on the defensive side that is as abysmal as our WR group. If you watch the game and not listen to the mediots, you would see that the Patriots have middle of the road or better talent in each unit on D. Our offense scored 3 points in the first 29 minutes of the Super Bowl, and 0 in the last 26 minutes. Sounds like a priority.

 

[brdmaverick]

"Hesitant" isn't a good word choice. Maybe "unsuccessful" is better. We traded for Ochocinco and drafted Tate. Also drafted Chad Jackson, although that was during Moss' time with us. All three didn't pan out, but it wasn't for lack of trying (on the part of the Pats anyways).

Ya, it would've been nice to have Greg Jennings instead of Chad Jackson.

 

[brdmaverick]

You said it yourself--"most in need of improvement". Branch and Edelman are the worst duo in the league, by a wide measure. And, on top of that, there's no depth behind them. This is arguably (definitely) worse than the situation in 2006, when BB blew up the receiving core. There is no unit on the defensive side that is as abysmal as our WR group. If you watch the game and not listen to the mediots, you would see that the Patriots have middle of the road or better talent in each unit on D. Our offense scored 3 points in the first 29 minutes of the Super Bowl, and 0 in the last 26 minutes. Sounds like a priority.

I get your point, but I think Welker alone makes this group better than the 2006 crew. (Caldwell, Gaffney, Brown, Gabriel, Jackson) no thanks

 

[brdmaverick]

The issue with deep threat receivers is that they also tend to be skinny, which usually equates to two things.....

1.) afraid to go over the middle
2.) poor run blocking

 

[letekro]

I get your point, but I think Welker alone makes this group better than the 2006 crew. (Caldwell, Gaffney, Brown, Gabriel, Jackson) no thanks

I'm talking about outside receivers. I think if you take away Brown and Welker from the equation the 2006 group is probably better, although you're splitting butthairs.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Ya, it would've been nice to have Greg Jennings instead of Chad Jackson.

Greg Jennings instead of Chad Jackson in 2006
Mike Wallace instead of Brandon Tate in 2009 (Wallace went 1 pick after Tate)

Holy crap, imagine that WR tandem

 

[ATippett56]

Who said that Brandon Lloyd is not a capable deep threat?

Brandon Lloyd, WR for the St. Louis Rams at NFL.com

Just look at Brandon Lloyd's statistics for the 2010 NFL Season.

 

[ATippett56]

Greg Jennings instead of Chad Jackson in 2006
Mike Wallace instead of Brandon Tate in 2009 (Wallace went 1 pick after Tate)

Holy crap, imagine that WR tandem

Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda

 

[Satchboogie3]

I guess that I am in the minority but perhaps the reason that the Patriots are "so hesitant to get a deep threat" is because there are several other much higher priorities.

We have one legit WR and it happens to be a slot receiver. It's a HUGE hole/weakness on the team. Our passing game is TE/Welker... We need legit targets outside the numbers. We've all seen what happens when Brady starts locking in on someone and it doesn't help when the entire defense is trying to defend that same area...

I think we need to get Lloyd/Colston and then get another starting-caliber wideout through the draft/FA, preferably one with some size and at least a little speed. Is it really too much to ask to have athletic and sizeable wideouts? I'll never understand why we got rid of Gaffney, he's more than worth $2.4 million.

 

[Ron Sellers]

You said it yourself--"most in need of improvement". Branch and Edelman are the worst duo in the league, by a wide measure. And, on top of that, there's no depth behind them. This is arguably (definitely) worse than the situation in 2006, when BB blew up the receiving core. There is no unit on the defensive side that is as abysmal as our WR group. If you watch the game and not listen to the mediots, you would see that the Patriots have middle of the road or better talent in each unit on D. Our offense scored 3 points in the first 29 minutes of the Super Bowl, and 0 in the last 26 minutes. Sounds like a priority.

We agree to disagree. I'm looking at the full body of work, not one or two games. I'll go with the larger sample size myself.

I do watch (and then rewatch) every Pats game every week, as well as that of their upcoming opponent, in addition to a game in each time slot every week that the Pats are not playing. I think that if you watched as many NFL games not involving the Pats as I do you would perhaps realize what an over-reactionary statement "worst duo in the league" is.

I'm also not sure why you keep referring to Branch and Edelman when one is a starter and the other is a backup. When comparing to other positions - if you've taken the time to compare to other positions - are you also comparing the last starter and backup when assessing which position needs an upgrade the most? If you're going to compare to other teams then in essence you should really be comparing Branch, Welker and Hernandez - regardless of the titles to which they are assigned. Those are your starters; Edelman is not a starter.

I'm not out to try to change your opinion - which obviously is not going to happen. I just find it odd that the vast majority are so singularly focused on improving this one position - and almost nobody is talking about improving the defense.

Again, I am not saying that WR is an area that couldn't use an upgrade; of course it could stand improvement! I just believe that there are other areas that are more in need of an upgrade; hence that makes those other areas a priority.

The reality is that due to the salary cap it is impossible to develop a team with all-pros at every position. Adding a high-priced wide receiver means you have less funds to allocate to another position. I would prefer to improve the defense first, before focusing on improving the offense.

 

[ATippett56]

Again, I am not saying that WR is an area that couldn't use an upgrade; of course it could stand improvement! I just believe that there are other areas that are more in need of an upgrade; hence that makes those other areas a priority.

The reality is that due to the salary cap it is impossible to develop a team with all-pros at every position. Adding a high-priced wide receiver means you have less funds to allocate to another position. I would prefer to improve the defense first, before focusing on improving the offense.

Quality wide receivers are available in this unrestricted free agent period. Quality 3-4 outside linebackers, such as a LaMarr Woodley, are not available in this unrestricted free agent period.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

The reason the Pats struggled to beat teams like the Steelers and Giants is because they had no one to consistently beat man coverage on the outside. Even in the SB they needed so many long drives because no one could dominate outside the numbers for a big play.

 

[Sciz]

When people think deep threat, they think of some random receiver who runs a 4.3. They don't realize that to get on the field at all, they also have to be able to run routes. Finding someone fast who can also run the routes is the problem.

 

[ATippett56]

When people think deep threat, they think of some random receiver who runs a 4.3. They don't realize that to get on the field at all, they also have to be able to run routes. Finding someone fast who can also run the routes is the problem.

Not Brandon Lloyd, that is if you believe Josh McDaniels.

 

[Elijah T.]

When people think deep threat, they think of some random receiver who runs a 4.3. They don't realize that to get on the field at all, they also have to be able to run routes. Finding someone fast who can also run the routes is the problem.

True.

A complete receiver isn't neccessarily a fast receiver. Jerry Rice 4.6, Terrell Owens 4.5, Reggie Wayne 4.5, Larry Fitzgerald 4.5, Brandon Lloyd 4.6....All of these wideouts can run the entire route tree (9 routes).

Because thats on film the defender has to play the field when defending him, which allows for double moves and indecision by the cornerback.

Second to that I would say size (6'0 or better) and strength to fight off the jam are more important than straight line speed.

 

[shareef242]

True.

A complete receiver isn't neccessarily a fast receiver. Jerry Rice 4.6, Terrell Owens 4.5, Reggie Wayne 4.5, Larry Fitzgerald 4.5, Brandon Lloyd 4.6....All of these wideouts can run the entire route tree (9 routes).

Because thats on film the defender has to play the field when defending him, which allows for double moves and indecision by the cornerback.

Second to that I would say size (6'0 or better) and strength to fight off the jam are more important than straight line speed.

Deep threat is an over used term in the NFL. You can count on one hand "true" Deep threats. You don't need one. Just a wideout out who can beat man coverage on 90% of the corners in the league. That again is an elite WR but not necessarily a deep threat. You can probably count on one hand those guys too.

You had the 2nd best WR of alltime/Deep Threat in the history of the game. Those guys dont grow on trees. The man single-handely reinvented the bomb in the NFL & everybody thinks now you have to get one. It doesn't work like that.

 

[eom]

they couldn't win a superbowl with randy moss, but they've won plenty of games without him.

it's not that I don't want some of these star receivers, I'm sure every team does, but I don't think we sink or swim on signing colston, or whoever.
moss was a great deal for us because he didn't cost much in trade or contract --- a lot of the names people throw out are not similar situations.

just ask the jets if we should sign a high profile fa wr for big money.

you just don't know if these fa receivers would be the same player in the pats offense, and it's a lot of money to gamble on a colston, v jax, or whoever, whereas welker has already proven he's on the same page as brady.