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Who's to Blame? Tea Party, or Democrats and Republicans...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mcgraw_wv, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/b...or-says-us-has-only-itself-to-blame.html?_r=1

    This addicition started long before the Tea Party

    2 Party System took thos good ole days and ran them into the ground...

    Constant War, and Constant Spending on social services without ever a plan to pay for either. Both Parties to blame, both now where to be found in accepting responsibility.



    The end of our Sovereignty:
    Thank you Republicans and Democrats, you are the reason we have squandered our wealth, YOU sold out american workers, YOU sold out the American Dream for a few extra ticks of the stock market, YOU ended prosperity by giving away too much and requiring nothing in return. YOU give away our money to dictators, rebels, and murders without our permission...


    The Tea Party is the cure to the disease which has brought America to it's knees.

    Believe it or not, the two party system has destroyed this country, it's false choice premise, and those people who support the status quo are the ones who are to blame for the state of our union.

    The Tea Party will only grow stronger, as our country grows weaker. Our Nation will not turn to the Democrats, or Republicans for answers out of what they drove us into...
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As long as they pander and kiss the azz of the religious right, they can never be any answer in american politics..

    They are a party of soundbytes and revisionist historians...who change facts to further their agenda...

    The Tea Party would be a viable interest for many, including myself, if they embraced true liberatarian beliefs.. but instead are fodder for the capitalists and pawn of the religious freaks..
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reagan is to blame. He's the one who began cutting taxes without taking economic responsibility for the implications of those tax cuts.

    The only president since that time he successfully navigated the post-Reagan economy is Clinton--he raised taxes, cut spending, and liberalized (in not always good ways) foreign trade, which especially energized the technology sector.

    But, which party do you blame? You're right, you can't blame the Tea Party, or the Communists for that matter. Any economic philosophy that was not in place cannot be blamed.

    You have to blame the Democrats and Republicans, but more specifically I would blame the corporate Democrats and Republicans, those most responsible for implementing the ridiculously low tax rates for the wealthy when they knew they could not slash the budget.

    In that sense, the Tea Party today is a response like the Communist Party in the 30s. It is, as this board often shows, a place for highly frustrated people who are looking for someone to vent their anger without taking personal responsibility for their own failures.

    In that way, I agree with the Tea Party. The reality is that personal responsibility only works so far: If you don't have the brains, the social skills, a good family, grow up in a good neighborhood, and so on, there's a good chance you'll make some terrible mistakes in life that leave you down and out. In that sense, government (and church) have failed terribly. Of course, the fact is that since Reagan, the basic Republican line has been, "This program is so terrible, we better cut money out of it," full well knowing that if you cut money but keep demand the same, the programs will only get worse. We will never have effective government programs if they aren't funded at levels that assure effectiveness. That said, we also need even greater accountability.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  4. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Honestly, I think the Tea Party s more libertarian and less religious than you guys think, but needed religion for acceptance into the mainstream.

    For one, I do not support the Palin style patiers, I have always been a Ron Paul backer...

    I support the end of the Elite model of government, and the need for the people to be represented, not corporations via Republicans and Democrats...

    Hearing "We are doing what we were elected to do, stop spending" during the debt debate was refreshing... While the established officials were saying "Don't worry Wall St, we will not let this happen, were just playing politics"

    Think about that before you direct blame.

    The false choice is over...
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  5. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    he didn't do it.........the republican house and senate with its 'contract with america did it'

    the president alone is not capable of much in this regard...........
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Howard Dean ran for President as a populist liberal. The MSM got so afraid of him, they played again and again a tape that was recorded with the wrong kind of microphone and made him sound much angrier than he was. As a result we do not have the populist equivalent of the Tea Party on the Democratic side.

    The problem with the Tea Party is that at some point, when you cut government services, you really create a disaster. Most of these poor people face some big obstacles--stupidity, bad luck, bad health, children and no daycare, addiction, criminal records (that make it more difficult for them to get work), bad social skills, etc. We have 40 million people who live under the poverty line. What do you want to cut? Education? Housing? Food Stamps? Health care?

    I think we should first try to raise taxes on the wealthy before we try to cut programs for the poor.

    I'm with Ron Paul in terms of cutting defense and getting out of Afghanistan, but my big issue with the libertarians is that they believe that businesses should be allowed to discriminate based on race, sexual orientation, etc., which obviously would put minorities at a disadvantage.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They see The Tea Party as a threat so they have to try and destroy it any way they can, if the Tea Party were "left wing" MSNBC would be telling us it was the greatest thing since the Virgin Gave Birth To Jesus Christ.

    GOD BLESS THE TEA PARTY THEY ARE AMERICANS EXERCISING THEIR FREEDOM.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The homophobic pledge which panders to the religious freaks in Iowa is entered into evidence, the current banner carrier of these folks.. Bachman is a poster child for everything that is bad about the Tea Party and why it does not appeal to main stream folks like myself.

    The other issue is that they have marginalized blacks and other minorities, which are the base of the Democrats.. and where the demographics are switching.

    They claim to be liberatarians, but want to place many social controls of women and poor folks.. if you study their platform liberatarians do not care about gay marriage and the state should stay out of it, they are pretty much the same about abortion.. what I really like about them is their position on war, which I completely agree with.. they also favor open borders.

    Platform | Libertarian Party




    I do not hear the articulation of any of the above from the Tea Party, in fact exactly the opposite.. I hear a whole lot of noise and infiltration of the extremists/religious nutjobs on the right.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Clinton was the leader, and the Contract on America was nothing more than a PR stunt. Very little of it got passed, but it did provide cover for the House to acquiesce to Clinton.
  10. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    You nailed the point with your 40 million people need to be supported by the government. Shall we continue to fall into debt to support those? Or should we go back to a model where their Church and friends and family and other through charity assist them rather than the horrible inefficient government?

    Life is tough, **** happens, and not everyone gets a story book life, it stinks... through hard work and a few good breaks people make a better life for their kids...

    Supporting and maintaining a culture which only accepts government aid rather than working, is not doing anyone any favors. Here we are, with 40 million people, and the policies of the past have proven not to decrease the number of poor people.

    It's not working...
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless that President is Barack Obama, and he is responsible for just about everything..
  12. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    That position is fine, but it does come with the full umbrella. For instance, Reagan was only partly responsible for bringing down the Soviet Union. Jimmy Carter was not that bad a President.
  13. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    I agree with a lot of what you say here, and I see the Tea Party as a stepping stone and a middle ground between Red Meat GO Pand more libertarianism. We won't become libertarians over night, and there must be some transitional period. That is what we are seeing.

    If you hate the Bauchman style, Then follow the Ron Paul style, it's all the good without the radical crazy Palin/Bauchman style Tea Party.

    Remember, Dr. Paul started this party...
  14. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    The Tea Party is almost completely to blame. In a way I blame Bush's tax cuts since its clear they were too deep. However I can't blame him for doing something that worked for Kennedy and Regan. Both those Presidents cut taxes heftily and the economy/national finances found a new balance and we went on. For the record I'm certainly not against all of us keeping as much of our money as the economy will allow.

    So Bush was searching for the bottom and, as I said, I can't blame him even though he found it and inadvertently went too deep. I can, however, blame him for being unwilling to adjust things and I can certainly blame the Tea Baggers for being utterly obstinate about any tax increases at all.

    I'm convinced that tax rates need to be fluid. They simply have to up sometimes. The complete lack of flexibility on that which is the central tenet of the Tea Party is what's going to relegate them to the scrap heap in time. The only thing that's up in the air is how much damage they do in the meantime.
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My view is the liberatarian party and tea party are mutually exclusive, and as long as they pander to the religious right never the twain shall meet. Do not care for Ron Paul or Rand.

    Liberatarian Party has been around since 1971 and not sure that Ron Paul was involved at that time.. he may have popularized it, but not a founder.

    All the Tea Party has done is echo the sentiments of the corporatists and power elite, somehow they think what they are doing will benefit them.. but in reality all their message will benefit are the few at the top.
  16. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    So the 88 total Tea Party members of congress are completely to blame?

    There is a total of 435

    That's 17% of the decision makers...

    Oh yeah, and the 83% that is not tea party, is filibuster proof...

    Yet it's the Tea Party problem... interesting, sounds to me the manufactured issue, was perpetuated by the same old parties looking to place blame and ensure the media helps take out the nuisance that is the emerging party in politics.

    The 2 parties want the Tea Party out bad. And they will use every trick in the book to ensure the 17% is too blame...
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Well, if both parties want them out then perhaps you need to start examining why --- and not that tired old "They're afraid," routine, either.

    Although, the truth is, they probably are afraid - but not because they think The Tea Party is going to hurt them, personally, but because they realize the Tea Party is going to hurt America as a whole.

    Regardless, your whole argument loses all of it's water when you realize that the majority of Americans do NOT support The Tea Party.

    The public’s opinion of the Tea Party movement has soured in the wake of the debt-ceiling debate. The Tea Party is now viewed unfavorably by 40 percent of the public and favorably by just 20 percent, according to the poll. In mid-April 29 percent of those polled viewed the movement unfavorably, while 26 percent viewed it favorably. And 43 percent of Americans now think the Tea Party has too much influence on the Republican Party, up from 27 percent in mid-April.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1&ref=us

    If this truly IS a "government of the people, by the people and for the people," The Tea Party is in for a rude awakening.
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, we saw the same thing done to Bush.
  19. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Unintended comedy gold!
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The question isn't at this point who is to blame, rather the question is who can solve the problem.

    The answer the Tea Party. This is why the establishment defenders of the status quo attack the Tea Party. They unite Reid Obama and McCain. They are described as terrorist by the establishment and since they are the agents of change from the POV of the status quo they are indeed terrorist.

    They are also the best hope of this country.

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