Who's The Better Coach: Phil or Red

[scout]

I was expecting something like this, front page MSN. I thought the article was slanted, so I googled the author. Co-authored a book with Phil, no bias there.
I would go into detail, but got to catch a plane. I'll check back and add my 02 cents later.
What a freakin' joke.

Phil vs. Red: Who's the NBA's best coach ever? - FOX Sports on MSN

 

[efin98]

The article is garbage...

Red came to Boston and it took seven years for him to win his first championship, before he came the team had not had a winning year in their four year existence and went to the playoffs just once.

Jackson came to Chicago and the are ALREADY a deep playoff team. In fact, they were in the playoffs the previous five years and in the conference finals the year before so he INHERITED a team rather than building one. Same holds true for LA- they were a playoff team the previous five years including going to the Western Conference Finals two years before.


Red could have coached another decade, instead he left to focus on building a franchise...which he did. Jackson has been called the ultimate opportunist coach, and his actions after Kobe blew up after the first three championships and after he quit after Jordan retired the second time is proof.

 

[BadMoFo]

Has anyone here even seen Red coach, or is everyone basing their opinion because of who he coached?

I think the same reasons we say Belichick is the best coach ever in the NFL is the same reason Phil Jackson has got to be the best coach ever in the NBA, mostly because it's tougher now than ever before to become a dynasty. With free agency, more teams in the league and the distractions coaches face nowadays, I'd give the nod to a modern-day coach.

Nine teams in the league, never knew that.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

Re: Who\'s The Better Coach: Phil or Red

Phil is one of the greatest coaches in sports history, period.

 

[scout]

Re: Who\'s The Better Coach: Phil or Red

Phil is one of the greatest coaches in sports history, period.

Great documentation and analogy.

 

[sdaniels7114]

I got a kick out of how the author said Jackson has assistant coaches, trainers and scouts so its more complicated for him, while Red did everything himself making it easier.

 

[scout]

Phil gets credit for coming into an two organizations which were playoff teams, and using his zen magic, gets unruly players to play basketball.......................
Let's buckle up our helmets nice and tight and get into the time machine. The year is 1956, a wonderful time to be an outspoken, intelligent, black man headed to Boston. The first black starter on a championship team was the previous year, 1955. In case anyone forgot, black players were not allowed in all the coffee shops, hotels, etc. A number of times Russell refused to play unless black players where given equal treatment as white players. He was an outspoken proponent of the Civil Rights movement and the first athlete that wanted to be called black vs negro. Not all his teammates felt he was deserving. Tommy Heinsohn thought Russell was causing him to make less money. Russell responded by threatening to quit if he didn't receive a dollar more in salary then Heinsohn. In 1964, the Celtics would have the first all African American line-up. Of course the Civil Rights Act was passed in 64', so away games must have been swell.
I forgot, what were the issues that Phil had to resolve in Chicago?
Red Auerbach, won eight world championships in a row. People want to talk about how much easier it was back then ( we still are in our time machine). Against the L.A. Lakers, which featured the greatest player in the games history, Chamberlain was 7-1, 275 lbs.
He would be still dominant in today's game. Jerry West, still is one of the all-time best guards. Did anyone see how close LeBron came to breaking West's points in a playoff series? Followed up by the best forward in the game, Elgin Baylor. Take these three players in their prime and put them on any of today's NBA teams and they are playing for a championship. They would never beat the Celtics while Red coached them.
Charlie Rosen points out that when Phil started his run there were 27 teams compared to Eight. What he failed to mention was that 14 of those 27 teams had losing records while two broke even at 500.
"It could be said that one basic reason for Red's reign atop the league was Russell perpetually manned the center position". Is there anyone (outside of Boston) who didn't think Chamberlain was the best player in the World? By contrast, is there anyone, anywhere who does not believe that Jordan is the all-time best ever in basketball?
You can't have it both ways.
WTF does paying a $25 fine for challenging a referee vs paying $25,000? Ah Charlie, in the Celtics days, they wore black sneakers to save on washing expenses whereas today players are given new sneakers each game. Not that that has anything to do with who was the better coach, just wanted to point out the vast amount of garbage which is in this article.

 

[NEPatriot]

Phil Jackson is the BEST and His record speaks for itself.

 

[scout]

Phil Jackson is the BEST and His record speaks for itself.

Nice rebuttal. Care to enlighten us even more.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Phil Jackson is the BEST and His record speaks for itself.

You mean 5-3 in game sevens versus 8-0 for Red?????

 

[scout]

You mean 5-3 in game sevens versus 8-0 for Red?????

It seems, whenever anyone wants to proclaim Phil as the best, their opinion without any reference is absolute. 5-3 in game sevens. That must include the biggest blowout in NBA history.

 

[efin98]

Red Auerbach, won eight world championships in a row. People want to talk about how much easier it was back then ( we still are in our time machine). Against the L.A. Lakers, which featured the greatest player in the games history, Chamberlain was 7-1, 275 lbs.

Point of order on that...Chamberlain wasn't on the Lakers during some of those finals- he didn't get traded there until 1968, he was with the Warriors and '76ers before being traded to the LA Lakers...Red had retired two years before he went there.

The only time he faced them in the finals when Red coached was '64 when he was with the San Fransisco Warriors. He did however have to face Red in the playoffs when they were in Philadelphia prior to moving to San Fransisco.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Point of order on that...Chamberlain wasn't on the Lakers during some of those finals- he didn't get traded there until 1968, he was with the Warriors and '76ers before being traded to the LA Lakers...Red had retired two years before he went there.

The only time he faced them in the finals when Red coached was '64 when he was with the San Fransisco Warriors. He did however have to face Red in the playoffs when they were in Philadelphia prior to moving to San Fransisco.

And he was 1-5 when facing the Celtics pre-Laker days iin the playoffs....

 

[efin98]

And he was 1-5 when facing the Celtics pre-Laker days iin the playoffs....

Actually it was 0-5 against Red's Celtics, he beat them the year after Red retired from coaching.

 

[scout]

There will definitely be outrage in regards to my next statement. The 1964 Boston Celtics coached by Red, would mop the floor with this year's Lakers, coached by Phil.
Before you Laker fans (specifically ones born after the 60's) cry foul, I'll explain.
This isn't football, where players are bigger and more athletic. The starting line-up for the Celtics: Russell-Center,6-9, 215; would dominate both ends of court.
Havlicek-F, 6-5, 203; a complete player who moves without the ball non-stop.
Heinsohn-F, 6-7, 218; Hard nosed with great shooting touch.
S. Jones-G, 6-4,198; clutch with lightning quickness.
KC Jones-G, 6-1,200; Defensive standout.
Ramsey-G/f, 6-3,190 (the beginning of the sixth man).

Coach: Red Auerbach, the best coach in basketball history.

Anyone who follows basketball knows that today's game is not team oriented, Red coaching any of his Celtic teams would have beaten a team like L.A. Had I gone to an earlier Celtic team, I could have used Sharman and Cousy. Felt I shouldn't annihilate a team or coach's ego.

 

[stcjones]

There will definitely be outrage in regards to my next statement. The 1964 Boston Celtics coached by Red, would mop the floor with this year's Lakers, coached by Phil.
Before you Laker fans (specifically ones born after the 60's) cry foul, I'll explain.
This isn't football, where players are bigger and more athletic. The starting line-up for the Celtics: Russell-Center,6-9, 215; would dominate both ends of court.
Havlicek-F, 6-5, 203; a complete player who moves without the ball non-stop.
Heinsohn-F, 6-7, 218; Hard nosed with great shooting touch.
S. Jones-G, 6-4,198; clutch with lightning quickness.
KC Jones-G, 6-1,200; Defensive standout.
Ramsey-G/f, 6-3,190 (the beginning of the sixth man).

Coach: Red Auerbach, the best coach in basketball history.

Anyone who follows basketball knows that today's game is not team oriented, Red coaching any of his Celtic teams would have beaten a team like L.A. Had I gone to an earlier Celtic team, I could have used Sharman and Cousy. Felt I shouldn't annihilate a team or coach's ego.

I agree with you brother.......and great stats here.....Phil "ahole" Jackson has always walked in to teams LOADED with talent.....while Red built the Celts from the bottom up. No Contest......Red Auerbach is the greatest NBA coach EVER!!!!!

 

[efin98]

There will definitely be outrage in regards to my next statement. The 1964 Boston Celtics coached by Red, would mop the floor with this year's Lakers, coached by Phil.
Before you Laker fans (specifically ones born after the 60's) cry foul, I'll explain.
This isn't football, where players are bigger and more athletic. The starting line-up for the Celtics: Russell-Center,6-9, 215; would dominate both ends of court.
Havlicek-F, 6-5, 203; a complete player who moves without the ball non-stop.
Heinsohn-F, 6-7, 218; Hard nosed with great shooting touch.
S. Jones-G, 6-4,198; clutch with lightning quickness.
KC Jones-G, 6-1,200; Defensive standout.
Ramsey-G/f, 6-3,190 (the beginning of the sixth man).

Coach: Red Auerbach, the best coach in basketball history.

Those six were all Hall of Famers...add in Clyde Lovellette and you have a full team with replacements that would wipe the floor with those Lakers

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Actually it was 0-5 against Red's Celtics, he beat them the year after Red retired from coaching.

Mea culpa..I stand corrected....
I guess the magic in 1967 got used up in Kenmore Square......
Talk about walking away a winner... championships 8 years in a row...something like 25 straight playoff series wins

 

[scout]

Those six were all Hall of Famers...add in Clyde Lovellette and you have a full team with replacements that would wipe the floor with those Lakers

Efin, you are a very knowledgeable fan. Kudos on the Chamberlain trade.
Clyde Lovellette eludes me (googled). Dang, and he did play for the Celtics. I'm impressed.

 

[efin98]

Efin, you are a very knowledgeable fan. Kudos on the Chamberlain trade.
Clyde Lovellette eludes me (googled). Dang, and he did play for the Celtics. I'm impressed.

Only corrected as I knew someone would hop in to correct, figured you'd prefer someone who agreed with you in principal correct you first

And Lovellette was someone I'd never heard of, just looked at the roster and at his career stats and saw that he'd been inducted into the Hall of Fame...but still one hell of a team that year- one of the best all time.