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Who's Right Regarding Our Corners?

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OPTION ONE
    Many here think that we are all set set with Talib & Dennard as starters, Arrington in the slot, and Cole as an emergency backup and top gunner. We also have Dowling as our 5th corner, if we even carry a 5th.

    OPTION 2
    Others, including many of mediots, consider that corner is one of our cry top needs, certainly worthy of our first or second draft pick.

    I choose Option 2.
  2. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    We're fine with who we have as of April 11th. One injury to Talib or Dennard and we're significantly less fine on the outside.

    So I guess I choose option 2. If for no other reason than I want competition for Dowling's spot as a backup outside corner.
  3. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    With the moves they made in free agency, (I think) the team does not need to focus on a particular position in the draft.

    They should do what they normally do... pick the best player available (or trade down and acquire future picks).
  4. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    D looked fine last year w/ Talib and Dennard
  5. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    McCourty might be the 3rd, 4th or 5th CB along with starting safety.
  6. Coach42

    Coach42 Rookie

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    Must be addressed. Dowling, Arrington and Cole could all stand an upgrade.
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Well, Arrington's going to be the nickel no matter what. If you mean could stand an upgrade in the sense that someone else plays on the outside if Talib/Dennard go down, I agree.

    I think CB is the third priority after WR and DE.
  8. belichick010405

    belichick010405 Closed Acccount

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    We are all right. They have the necessary depth and they can stand to get an upgrade in case there is an injury to Dowling or Talib. Fortunately, McCourty has played cornerback as a fall back.
  9. goheels22002

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    Option 1, definitely. The secondary became tough when Talib settled in with Dennard and McCourty started patrolling at safety. Add in a full off-season with Adrian Wilson and the defensive backfield is in great shape. I expect a couple of veterans to be thrown in for training camp to challenge these guys, or perhaps unseat Ras-I Dowling, but this is not a crying need.

    Look, the Patriots have only two legitimate selections in the draft. The needs, in order, for the draft are 1) defensive line, 2) offensive line 3) whatever you can get in the 7th round among the damaged goods guys like Alfonzo Dennard.
  10. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    To me it is not an either/or, but a combination of the two.

    Talib and Dennard are the starters with Arrington in the slot.
    Cole is primarily a ST player.
    Anything from Dowling is a bonus.

    Talib is gone a year from now. If he plays well he will be too expensive to re-sign; if he doesn't, then he won't be offered another contract.

    Whereas free agency is used primarily for immediate needs, the draft is more of a long term solution. Drafting a CB to replace Talib in 2014 makes sense.
  11. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    I was very pleased with Dennard and Talib when they were in there. There was a noticeable difference when they were not in there together. They were lights-out against the Texans, even with Andre Johnson. If anything, I'd say Safety over CB for draft needs. I'll be curious if McCourty puts on some bulk to play safety this year. Gregory is average at best. And I'm crossing my fingers on the Wilson's playing well.

    DT is #1 to me for the draft. Then WR. Those are the ideal top two picks for me.
  12. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    A lot will depend on the health of Dowling. If fully healthy I think he and Dennard will fight it out for snaps at one corner position. Plus with Talib's injury history, I really think we need to have 3 starting CBs ready.

    There is a big question, at least in my mind, about the state of Dowling's hip. There are some that think that he still hasn't recovered full flexibility from that injury. Only BB and his staff know exactly how he is. We will only be able to infer his situation from how the Pats use their top 2 (or 3) draft picks.

    It would be easy to infer that if the Pats spend one of their top 2 pcks on a CB then they'd expect that pick to be one of the top 4 CBs on the team, and Dowling would be on very shaky ground fight for that 5th position. It could also be inferred that they DON'T have high expectations of Dowling any longer. So IMHO, a lot will be said about Dowling's future by the time the 2nd round is over.

    If you want to carry this inference thing further, it could be inferred that because the Pats passed on a number of interesting and reasonably priced FA CB's like Aso and Grimes, they are very happy with Dowling's progress this off season.

    Who knows. We sure don't. That's why it's an inference and NOT a fact. ;)
  13. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I think the best option is to draft a safety high with hopes of competing with Adrian Wilson for S2 and allowing DMC to slide to CB in case of an injury to Talib/Dennard while he and Wilson man the safety spots. Keeps Gregory in a limited role too. There's already 5 CB's on the roster including Dowling who I suspect will get one more chance here and 6 if you include the potential of DMC sliding over.

    If Tavon is ready for full time snaps then I believe the secondary is set but that's a long shot IMO and I'd rather use a higher pick on a blue chip potential pro bowl caliber safety, not sure Tavon's ceiling is that high.
  14. EwanSellars

    EwanSellars Rookie

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    i think if we trade down to the mid second we could snag jamar taylor or if we use our original 2nd round pick taylor might still be there but also slay could be an option and bww
  15. patsinthesnow

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    We badly need a 3rd outside CB. Besides being injury prone, Dowling hasn't even proved he's any good as a CB. This can be addressed in round 2.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like this option a lot.

  17. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Both, after a fashion. Talib and Dennard are good starters, and Arrington is good in the slot. But Arrington can't play outside, Talib and Dennard both missed time with injuries last year. Talib is on a one-year contract, and there's a real possibility that Dennard might regress this year. Based on that, CB is one of the team's top needs, regardless of how I feel about Talib/Dennard/Arrington as a unit when they're all healthy.
  18. Brady6

    Brady6 Rookie

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    If we had more info on how Dowling looks behind the scenes this would be a lot easier to gauge. If he is healthy he and has done something whether it be conditioning differently, technique development or anything else to significantly improve his injury situation he could be a game changer in this decision.

    I also would like to see how things play out with Revis prior to the draft. If he isn't traded maybe I'd hold off on CB for this year roll with what we have knowing we could move McCourty to CB and take a run at Revis in UFA and if we don't get him draft a CB in 2014 early.
  19. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Talib
    Dennard
    Arrington
    Dowling
    Cole

    (McCourty) could also play half/half like in SB46, or could even move back over to CB full-time for a handful of games if needed.

    We'll obviously know a lot more about Belichick's feelings, as I think there may be a fine line between choosing another CB and preparing for the future and wasting a pick/roster spot.

    As many have pointed out, Belichick's feelings with Dowling will likely come into play. We could get by with a mid round draft pick too, especially with a trade down. It doesn't necessarily have to be one of the first 2-3 choices, although that's what many of us would prefer.

    There's also a possibility that we'll do nothing this year, aside from maybe one more vet signing for competition purposes. It could potentially be addressed if and when it becomes more of a need next year depending on if Talib stays + the health of Dowling.
  20. supafly

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    Does McCourty really have to put on weight to play a position that he's played very well in the past 2 postseasons and stretch runs?

    He's our rangy/quick speed guy in a more traditional "FS" role, although we know that L/R is more appropriate. His skillset really allows him to be just fine in my opinion. Besides, we may need him to take over the part-time role at CB too like in SB46, if we don't end up needing him for a more permanent role for a handful of games. I'd rather keep him where he's at which allows us maximum versatility.

    I absolutely agree with your 2 biggest draft needs at DL, WR.

    I can't say that I think safety is much of a need right now, but since Belichick plans for the future and takes the BPA alot, we can't rule anything out. The word from Bedard is that they are very high on T.Wilson starting opposite of McCourty this year, as they just used a high round choice last draft.
  21. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    Remember when we thought Butler, McCourty, Dowling etc. were all going to be great after their rookie seasons and were horrible their sophomore seasons? Yeah, assuming Dennard is going to be great is a leap of faith I'm not sure I want to take. Teams didn't have any tape on him starting the second half of the season and teams adjust.

    I'm not saying he's guaranteed going to be bad, but along with him being still an unknown after half a season of play, along with all of his crime issues distracting him, plus the near guarantee Talib is going to miss time, I definitely want to have more insurance there.

    Moving McCourty to CB in that case would be fine, but if that happens I sure as heck want someone besides Gregory and Wilson defending the deep pass. While I"m not high on either of them, nor Tavon Wilson, it's a lot harder to draft a rookie starting safety as opposed to a rookie starting CB. Vacarroo is the only draft prospect who can be a day one starter but there are many other guys who could do that at CB.
  22. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    At safety we have McCourty, Wilson, Wilson, Gregory, and Ebner. That's probably fine, but I don't think we'd be happy standing pat there if McCourty moved to CB even temporarily. Hence, I don't think McCourty is an important consideration in assessing CB needs.

    We have three outside corners who've played well -- Dowling for a couple of games, Talib for a number of games, and Dennard ditto. Two are injury-prone, one's on a one-year contract, one has character concerns, another is facing jail time, one is under-sized, and two are so new in the league that it's conceivable somebody could see something about them on film that enables them to be more easily dealt with.

    Yeah, I'd like to see another corner in the mix.
  23. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    I think the only way we get Taylor is if we pick him with our first, and I'd rather trade back. Slay would be a nice late second round pick.

    AJ had 8 catches in both games, one for 95 yards another for 98. Talib did not do nearly as good a job on him as the idiot color commentators would like. The difference was he wasn't routinely destroyed deep for 40 yard gains like Arrington was as an outside CB.

    Talib was a decent player for us last year but he was just above average. It's just we have been so used to dreadfully, hilariously, pathetically bad play out of everyone besides McCourty in the secondary that it seemed good.

    Also on top of that Arrington was brilliant in the slot which helped tremendously as he went from horrible outside to elite in the slot.

    We need a CB. Talib is injury prone, overrated, old, and on a one year deal. Dennard is really still an unproven product.
  24. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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    Teams do not plan for injuries therefore option 1 :rolleyes:

    Kidding aside option 2 for sure.

    Team should have tried securing Nnamdi or someone else for a cheap 1 year deal so that we have 3 competent outside corners. Alas now we must draft another one.
  25. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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    Given that the defense is built on not giving up the big play I would say that Talib did his job, he is injury prone though. He isn't a shut down corner and only those that consider him one are overrating him. He is a true #1 corner however and that is not overrating him at all.

    And when did 27 become old :confused::confused:?
  26. cstjohn17

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    With pretty much all the positions and units in pretty good or very good shape the Pats can take the best fit across any of the units. If that happens to be at CB then the Patriots can take a pretty good unit to very good.
  27. tonyto3690

    tonyto3690 Banned

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    The point remains. He may or may not be here next season and he isn't a lock to be there all season, and in fact it'd be unlikely for him to be. But even less of a lock as a good outside CB is Dennard.

    But really it comes down to, do you think losing Talib in the playoffs would be more or less a problem than losing a WR/TE? I think clearly losing either of Dennard/Talib would be WAY more of a catastrophe than Amendola or even Gronk who we did okay with without and have built up fall backs for already. We don't with any of the CBs.

    As for the age bit, honestly I thought he was 30 for some reason.
  28. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    go back and look at the game log. If I recall correctly only about 2-4 of those 8 came on coverage by Talib. Johnson gets moved around just like pats move wrs and pats assign CB to a side of field - not to man-up.
  29. BradyFTW!

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    I actually agree that he's injury-prone, overrated, and (obviously) on a one-year deal, but old? The guy just turned 27. He's entering what should be his prime years.
  30. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    Did it myself and while who tackled is not conclusive on who covered:
    2 of 8 rec were definitely NOT talib (dennard - LB on a short-middle pass)
    1 of 8 were possibly not Talib (mccourty)
    1 of 8 is unknown likely talib - (PAT)
    4 of 8 for sure Talib

    BUT also 3 INCs were likely Talib. So vs Talib AJ was only 5 of 8 'targets' that is 63% - not bad vs one of top wrs in the league, not stoning, but not bad.
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