Who Would You Trade Up To 13 To Get?

[HomerSchooled]

Peterson's tremendous, but he's the least likely to be available at 13. I'd love it just like everyone else, though. Quinn I may go for if he's the answer at OLB, but I'm not sure he'd be head and shoulders above some of the players available a little later on.

I think as far as need/fit goes for this team, the drop after Jones and the rest of the class is wider than any other position. It's difficult to envision a more perfect player for how the Pats move the ball. A quiet, willing team player with toughness, size, speed, and great YAC ability? Add in the Alabama connection, and a minor trade up for Jones is almost too good to be true. 500 points a season could become the norm.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Quinn, Jordan, Peterson, Miller, Smith, Darreus are guys I would trade up for.

I'd be more than happy waiting on a player like Clayborn, Watt, Heyward or Wilkerson at 17 if the rest were gone.

 

[dryheat44]

WOW.

Wes Bunting is GALAXIES ahead of Todd McShay and Mel Kiper, who are both, in the fine words of Gunny Hartman, Equally Worthless.

GALAXIES.

The man does his homework.

I am the LAST guy to back up Sciz, who I find quite rude ~ and who I perceive as agreeing with ME!! ~ but YOUR credibility, sir, just went

Wow. You have no idea how much that hurt. I might never recover.

Bunting is horrible. Period. If he knew half as much as he pretends to, he'd be working for an NFL team.

Really, when it comes to the media players in the draft game, there's Mike Mayock and there's everybody else. Rob Rang is probably the best of the rest. Kiper, as I said, doesn't get it, but at least he has plugged-in sources who feed him info.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Wow. You have no idea how much that hurt. I might never recover.

Bunting is horrible. Period. If he knew half as much as he pretends to, he'd be working for an NFL team.

Really, when it comes to the media players in the draft game, there's Mike Mayock and there's everybody else. Rob Rang is probably the best of the rest. Kiper, as I said, doesn't get it, but at least he has plugged-in sources who feed him info.

The same Mayock who constantly gushes about 40 times, bench press, and arm strength?

 

[dryheat44]

The same Mayock who constantly gushes about 40 times, bench press, and arm strength?

Everybody gushes about those things to some extent....there's a lot of airtime and bandwidth to fill. And it's not like 40 times and other combine drills are useless. They're overvalued by some, but they do have some value. If not, why would Belichick attend?

Five points in Mayock's favor:

1) He understands differences in scheme and what certain coaches look for out of certain positions.

2) He understands what other biases GMs have in drafting. For example, how highly they value character, if they prefer seniors for their maturity or underclassmen for their youth, how much stock they put in bloodlines.

3) He watches coaches film on probably 2/3 of each highly-rated player's games. I seriously doubt Wes Bunting, for example, does nothing other than watch the games on Saturday afternoons and watches YouTube highlights.

4) He's not afraid to say "I don't know" or "I have to watch more film". That's big with me, because 9 gurus out of 10 would rather spout off a baseless opinion that admit they aren't up to speed.

5) He's not afraid to go against the conventional wisdom of the Kipers of the world. Many times he has guys projected to go early with a 2nd or 3rd round grade, and vice versa.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Everybody gushes about those things to some extent....there's a lot of airtime and bandwidth to fill. And it's not like 40 times and other combine drills are useless. They're overvalued by some, but they do have some value. If not, why would Belichick attend?

Five points in Mayock's favor:

1) He understands differences in scheme and what certain coaches look for out of certain positions.

2) He understands what other biases GMs have in drafting. For example, how highly they value character, if they prefer seniors for their maturity or underclassmen for their youth, how much stock they put in bloodlines.

3) He watches coaches film on probably 2/3 of each highly-rated player's games. I seriously doubt Wes Bunting, for example, does nothing other than watch the games on Saturday afternoons and watches YouTube highlights.

4) He's not afraid to say "I don't know" or "I have to watch more film". That's big with me, because 9 gurus out of 10 would rather spout off a baseless opinion that admit they aren't up to speed.

5) He's not afraid to go against the conventional wisdom of the Kipers of the world. Many times he has guys projected to go early with a 2nd or 3rd round grade, and vice versa.

I never said all the combine drills were useless but I do think there is a misplaced emphasis on many of them, and that Mayock says some very dumb things. Granted, he might be tayloring his commentary to the fans that don't know what they're talking about, accurately dissecting this stuff is a LOT more complicated and takes a lot more knowledge and skill.

Anyway, I think Bunting is a lot better than you're giving him credit for, I only started looking at his stuff recently so I might have a different perspective than those who followed him years ago, but he seems to focus on what the players can and can't do on the field as opposed to bench pressing and 40 times, like "can this receiver get seperation"?

 

[mgteich]

At this point in their respective careers, Mayock's analysis is at least as well-repected as Kiper's. Add Gosselin (the best IMHO), and you have three different approaches, all reasonable IMO.

.5) He's not afraid to go against the conventional wisdom of the Kipers of the world. Many times he has guys projected to go early with a 2nd or 3rd round grade, and vice versa.

 

[dryheat44]

At this point in their respective careers, Mayock's analysis is at least as well-repected as Kiper's. Add Gosselin (the best IMHO), and you have three different approaches, all reasonable IMO.

Gosselin is a better, if more unknown, Kiper. His accuracy in his final mock is enviable, but it's because he has sources that leak to him who teams have zoned in on, rather than any player evaluation and scheme projection talent. His early mocks are every bit a guess as ours are.

 

[BKBroiler]

The way I look at this question is that I'd only trade up for a player if they are considered special and are head-and-shoulders above the next guy at the position. Based on that line of thinking, then I would trade up if Green or Peterson were available (especially for a 3rd rounder) However, the price to trade up would most likely skyrocket if either somehow fell that far.

Besides those two, I think Jordan is the only other one that I would think about trading up for if BB sees him as a 3-4 elephant OLB. Initially I liked Aldon Smith as an OLB, but now think that he may end up being a better fit at 4-3 DE. If Jordan is seen as a 3-4 DE, then I wouldn't trade up because Watt and Wilkerson have the potential to be good five-techniques as well (plus Wilkerson has the ideal size).

All of the others on that list besides those three have someone available later in the round or in other rounds that I like just as much, if not better.

 

[bakes781]

I don't look at AJ Green being miles ahead of Julio Jones. If anything I'd prefer Jones, but I know I'm in the minority on that opinion.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I don't look at AJ Green being miles ahead of Julio Jones. If anything I'd prefer Jones, but I know I'm in the minority on that opinion.

I think Jones is hands down the second best blocking WR in either pro or college ball behind Ward of Pittsburgh.

However Green runs better routes, has better hands, can beat the press better and makes more plays than Jones.

But in my mind, if they both run the same, Jones projects as a better fit in our offense because he is more well rounded.

 

[reflexblue]

We need Defense more than we need a WR. And with the way the O-line has been the shiny new WR could easily be shut down. I voted Darious

 

[IllegalContact]

I would move up for fairley over any of them.....not sure why he is not an option

 

[reflexblue]

I would move up for fairley over any of them.....not sure why he is not an option

Your right he isn't an option, i didn't notice. I would have had to think about it if it were between Fairly and Dareus.

 

[BradyManny]

I never said all the combine drills were useless but I do think there is a misplaced emphasis on many of them, and that Mayock says some very dumb things.

I agree with everything dryheat wrote about Mayock, he's light years ahead of the competition when it comes to draft scouting in the media. He may swing and miss at times (Gholston), but so does everyone.

I think the most important point is Mayock has a grasp of all the different systems in the NFL & in the NCAA, so when he does these conference calls with local media around the league, he actually knows what he's talking about if he's talking Pats & viable options. So few guys really do know that.

 

[mgteich]

This thread is intended to discuss who we might trade up for if they slipped to 12 or 13. In fact, the title says 13.

Neither Bowers nor Fairley are even remotely likely to be available at 12 or 13. It is very, very unlikely that either will drop out of the top 5. They are in the top 3 on almost all recent mocks.

Howwever, I should have included Watt.

I would move up for fairley over any of them.....not sure why he is not an option

 

[IllegalContact]

yeah......well......you should take peterson, dareus, and quinn off the list 2, because they won't be there.

don't be suprised if quinn is taken before bowers and dareus is taken before fairley

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

yeah......well......you should take peterson, dareus, and quinn off the list 2, because they won't be there.

don't be suprised if quinn is taken before bowers and dareus is taken before fairley

A mediocre 40 and a bad interview and they could easily drop to the middle of the 1st.

 

[IllegalContact]

A mediocre 40 and a bad interview and they could easily drop to the middle of the 1st.

and how many of those have the pats moved up for? you could say that about any player

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

and how many of those have the pats moved up for? you could say that about any player

Touche salesman, however it doesn't necessarily take just a bad interview to drop. A doctor could axe a player because of an X-Ray, there's any number of things. The overall point that I was trying to make(poorly, at that) is that they are great talents but in a deep class and some question marks about them could easily fall with a couple bad marks at the combine.