Who Will Brady Throw To?

[MaineMan]

I've been to that bar, that was a fun nite

Looks disturbingly like my Uncle Bernie. And now I need to go find some brain bleach.

 

[cstjohn17]

If by "add", you mean, "bring into camp", I'd hope that the Pats pick up at least one mid-level vet (Bryant, Boldin, Branch, Walter, etc.), maybe two, PLUS a couple of draft picks (maybe the last in the 2nd and a 4th, or a 4th and a 7th), PLUS one or two UDFAs. So, that's 4-7 "new guys" in camp. Probably overkill, but better to have too many options than too few.

For the final roster, how many we "add" depends entirely on the status of the guys we've already got, as per how they perform in camp.

Best-case scenario:
Moss is completely healthy.
Welker is on track to return from the PUP List in at least "recovery" capacity in week 7 or 8.
Tate is healthy and looks like he can legitimately contribute more than the "newer" prospects.
Edelman appears to be at least as good as he was at the end of 2009.

We "add" two guys - probably the best vet (if more than one) and a draft pick (who can go to the P/S when Welker returns.

Worst case scenario:
Moss is marginally healthy.
Welker is questionable to return from PUP even by Week-9.
Tate also starts on the PUP List or doesn't appear to be anything more than a decent returner.
Edelman appears to have maxxed his potential in late 2009.

Maybe we "add" 2-3 new guys, at least one of whom is a vet.

In any case, it would probably good to clarify whether the "adding" is for Camp or for the final 53 in any poll question.

So 2 of 7 draft picks plus 2 free agents just at WR? That seems like too much resources to spend at any one position.

I think they add one free agent (scrub type player) and a draft pick and then they live and die by Moss.

 

[ayjackson]

If by "add", you mean, "bring into camp", .

I probably wouldn't includes SFA's and UDFA's. Just experienced free agents and draft picks. I would also guess 2-3. On top of that, maybe some UDFA's. Have we had any success at WR with UDFA's? Givens (2002) and Edelman (2009) were seventh rounders?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've been to that bar, that was a fun nite

I thought that was you.

 

[MaineMan]

I probably wouldn't includes SFA's and UDFA's. Just experienced free agents and draft picks. I would also guess 2-3. On top of that, maybe some UDFA's. Have we had any success at WR with UDFA's? Givens (2002) and Edelman (2009) were seventh rounders?

Well, obviously, the success rate with UDFAs overall is pretty small, though it does include Welker, Malcolm Floyd, Lance Moore, Nate Washington, and Miles Austin. OTOH, the Pats are only batting 1 for 3 on 2nd rounders: Branch, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson. And we traded UP to snag the last two.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There's no reason to believe Tate's an NFL quality WR. What does he have - 1 catch? He's a third round draft pick that's barely been on a field in 18 months.

Discount Brandon Tate? Why would you count on him? That's my point, we can't count on anybody outside of Moss and Edelman.

I think I have to agree. Moss and Edelman are the only givens that will be coming back for the entirety of the 2010 season. Welker and Tate have both had serious injuries and there's no official timetable for their return yet. Moss is our #1 and Edelman is our slot. That means that the Pats need a #2/3 WR with some speed to play on the outside and a #4, possibly possession type WR. I'd say get 1 free agent, draft a rookie, and hope the others can come back from injury in a timely fashion.

Aiken is NOT a guy I want to see in the starting WR lineup. He's fine as a #5 and special teamer but he does nothing to relieve the pressure off primary receivers like Moss and Welker. Teams will dare a receiver like Aiken to beat them, and more often than not, he won't.

 

[ayjackson]

Aiken is NOT a guy I want to see in the starting WR lineup. He's fine as a #5 and special teamer but he does nothing to relieve the pressure off primary receivers like Moss and Welker. Teams will dare a receiver like Aiken to beat them, and more often than not, he won't.

I'll take it one further; Aikins is a guy I'd prefer wasn't on the roster at all. I think we can find better options at ST, whether it be Arrington, Chung or somebody new.

I'd like a Branch, Reed, Marshall, Bryant, Boldin or some other established vet opposite Moss. Then two draftees (early and late - Gilyard/Decker or Tate/Mitchell) to compete with Brandon Tate for the 4/5 spots and future 1/2 spots.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It appears to me that Eddie Royal is on the outs with Josh McDaniels. How about trading a 3rd round pick to our old friend McDaniels for Royal and bringing him in as the #2 WR/KR? Royal had 90 catches his rookie year but only 30 something in his 2nd year. He has also had 2 kick returns for touchdowns in his brief career already. IMO he's a Joshua Cribbs type player, maybe not as an explosive a returner but a better pure receiver, who could be available on the cheap.

Royal's brief career thus far
Eddie Royal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Royal and McDaniels
http://www.3rdstringsafety.com/tag/eddie-royal/

 

[DaBruinz]

"Who is saying not to have a 'contingency plan'?" "Why should we worry? seemed to be your whole point.

It couldn't have been MY whole point because you were replying to Metaphors, not myself.

I stated that "Collie accomplished more at WR . . ." KR skills were not part of my discussion. Not discounting the added value, just limiting the discussion to "Who will Brady Throw to?" In that regard, KR/PR skills are less relevant to this discussion, IMHO.

I don't see where I stated or implied that Collie couldn't have been a bust or that Tate wouldn't do well somehow because (??) of Collie. From what I saw of both of them last year, pre-Draft, I though Collie had higher potential to step in and contribute immediately as a #3WR than Tate did. That's it. Doesn't preclude any other possibilities.

Yet, you spewing on and on about Tate potentially being a bust. Why even mention it?

Sure, any prospect can bust. A higher percentage of 1st-round WRs flat-out bust than 2nd-round WRs (about 50% versus 35%). But a higher percentage of 1st rounders become "stars" (25% versus 10%). Anybody can bust. The point was that, if you don't draft anybody, there's not even a possibility of coming up with an Austin Collie. You can't lose or win the lottery of you don't play.

The Patriots drafted 2 WRs last year. Tate and Edelman. And they clearly thought that TATE would bring more to the team than Collie would. They also had signed Galloway prior to the draft in hopes that he'd be the #3 receiver and take pressure off of Welker and Moss. That didn't work out. Unfortunately, when Wes was hurt, Galloway and Brady didn't click the way we (The fans) hoped. And that led to part of the issue. This past year.

The Colts had Garcon as a UDFA from 2 years ago and Collie from last year. They were the 3rd and 4th receivers, much like Edelman started out behind Aiken, yet forced himself into the 4th position and eventually the 3rd position.

 

[DaBruinz]

It appears to me that Eddie Royal is on the outs with Josh McDaniels. How about trading a 3rd round pick to our old friend McDaniels for Royal and bringing him in as the #2 WR/KR? Royal had 90 catches his rookie year but only 30 something in his 2nd year. He has also had 2 kick returns for touchdowns in his brief career already. IMO he's a Joshua Cribbs type player, maybe not as an explosive a returner but a better pure receiver, who could be available on the cheap.

Royal's brief career thus far
Eddie Royal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Royal and McDaniels
http://www.3rdstringsafety.com/tag/eddie-royal/

The Pats don't have a 3rd round pick until 2011. Royal is best used in the slot, not on the outside, IMHO.

 

[ayjackson]

The Pats don't have a 3rd round pick until 2011. Royal is best used in the slot, not on the outside, IMHO.

in addition, i'd be very wary about "XXX is on the outs with Josh McDaniels" rumours. everybody is being speculated about there.

 

[Seneschal2]

Moss and Edelman are the only givens that will be coming back for the entirety of the 2010 season. Welker and Tate have both had serious injuries and there's no official timetable for their return yet. Moss is our #1 and Edelman is our slot. That means that the Pats need a #2/3 WR with some speed to play on the outside and a #4, possibly possession type WR. I'd say get 1 free agent, draft a rookie, and hope the others can come back from injury in a timely fashion.

The IT post.

 

[Metaphors]

I'd hope that the Pats pick up at least one mid-level vet (Bryant, Boldin, Branch, Walter, etc.), maybe two, PLUS a couple of draft picks (maybe the last in the 2nd and a 4th, or a 4th and a 7th), PLUS one or two UDFAs. So, that's 4-7 "new guys" in camp. Probably overkill, but better to have too many options than too few.

Here is the part that is just silly. Do you really believe that Bryant (got franchise tag and was upset by it) and Boldin (never happy with his contract situation in Arizona) think of themselves as "mid-level"? I promise you that they think of themselves as #1 or at least co-#1. And they will want to get paid like it. And receive that associated looks from the QB.

Even going with the low-end of your recommendation, here is what the WR lineup looks like around week 8 pending new injuries or injury complications:

1) Moss
2) Bryant
3) Welker
4) Walter
5) Edelman
6) Tate
7) Jacoby Ford (or someone like him)
8) Seyi Ajirotutu (or someone like him)
9) Aiken (he is a ST captain so they aren't cutting him)

That isn't realistic. Obviously at least 2 of those guys would need to go. Even if the Pats were given unlimited roster spots and no salary cap moving forward, nobody below the #4 spot would see a practice pass from Brady. So while collecting WRs like an old lady collects cats may seem like a good idea, you really can't build a team this way.

 

[Brarrell]

Well the FO made a huge mistake letting Gaffney go McDaniel new they wouldn't step up to the plate and they basically lost him over 500k. They need a # 2 reciever period even if Welker was healthy they needed a legit #2 wr that you have to respect and cover so that they can't double Moss all game. In my mind Welker won't be the same player until 2011 it usually takes 2 years to be completely healthy from that injury. Edelman nice player and Tate looks like he has potential but they need a couple more recievers and if they are not going to invest in the recievers then why sign Brady. They need wr's and pass rushers desperately so they better be prepared to spend some money which they haven't done much of since 2007.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well the FO made a huge mistake letting Gaffney go McDaniel new they wouldn't step up to the plate and they basically lost him over 500k. They need a # 2 reciever period even if Welker was healthy they needed a legit #2 wr that you have to respect and cover so that they can't double Moss all game. In my mind Welker won't be the same player until 2011 it usually takes 2 years to be completely healthy from that injury. Edelman nice player and Tate looks like he has potential but they need a couple more recievers and if they are not going to invest in the recievers then why sign Brady. They need wr's and pass rushers desperately so they better be prepared to spend some money which they haven't done much of since 2007.

Why do you assume that the Pats "didn't step up to the plate" on Gaffney? Did you ever stop to think that maybe McDaniels and BB had a gentleman's agreement to let Gaffney sign with Denver?

And no, they don't need a "#2 receiver". They need a receiver who can run the intermediate routes from the outside position.

As for the idea that they "haven't spent much money since 2007", you need to go and look at their cap. They have been at or near the cap every year. They have brought in free agents each year. Just because they haven't been the Redskins doesn't mean they haven't been spending money.

 

[Warren94]

The Patriots do need a WR to stretch the field. Moss is not getting any younger and Tate (unproven) Welker (injured) Edelman (4th or 5th) and our inability to run the ball effectively we are still one dimensional.


we need to improve both ol and DL.. and followed by LB and Secondary

 

[DaBruinz]

The Patriots do need a WR to stretch the field. Moss is not getting any younger and Tate (unproven) Welker (injured) Edelman (4th or 5th) and our inability to run the ball effectively we are still one dimensional.

The Pats can run the ball effectively if they stick with it. The problem is that they never seem to stick with it.

As for needing someone to "stretch the field," I'm pretty that the Pats did not have ANYONE to stretch the field when they had Branch, Givens, Brown, and Patten as their WRs. What they had was 4 players who could run routes, get open and catch the damn ball when it was thrown to them...

we need to improve both ol and DL.. and followed by LB and Secondary

There are other threads on this..

 

[captain stone]

1) So 2 of 7 draft picks plus 2 free agents just at WR? That seems like too much resources to spend at any one position.

2) I think they add one free agent (scrub type player) and a draft pick and then they live and die by Moss.

1) Unfortunately, that one position is "waffer-thin." We need to sign 1 vet starting-caliber WR (Kevin Walter?) for the outside, 1 vet backup-caliber (Stallworth, Meion Branch if released?), 1 top-65-caliber (Tate, Gilyard, LaFell?) & 1 developmental 7th-rounder/UDFA (Easley, Ajirotutu?).

2) If Bill adds only 1 scrub-type UFA & a draft pick, then they will prob. die by Moss.

 

[carolinatony]

We could also take someone in the late rounds as well such as
Demaryius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech ,6'3 - 229 lbs.

He is a big, physical WR who played in GT's running attack and still had over 1100 yds,8 TD's and 25 yds/reception.
Could be a be a late round gem.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Well the FO made a huge mistake letting Gaffney go McDaniel new they wouldn't step up to the plate and they basically lost him over 500k. They need a # 2 reciever period even if Welker was healthy they needed a legit #2 wr that you have to respect and cover so that they can't double Moss all game. In my mind Welker won't be the same player until 2011 it usually takes 2 years to be completely healthy from that injury. Edelman nice player and Tate looks like he has potential but they need a couple more recievers and if they are not going to invest in the recievers then why sign Brady. They need wr's and pass rushers desperately so they better be prepared to spend some money which they haven't done much of since 2007.

Gaffney - - huge gaffe by FO/BB. This turnstyle philosophy at WR needs to stop. Can;t develop th WR's and getting has been WR's from likes of Raiders, or FA is not going to work.

Welker - - forget 2010. At best 2011 when he is 31yrs. Welker bread and butter is making the sharp cuts. Hate to say but he maybe done. He's a warrior but I see no way he can contribute much for 2010 and coming back early he is risking another injury to ACL