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Who will be our #2 WR this year - Reche Caldwell or Chad Jackson?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, May 1, 2006.

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Who will be our #2 WR this season?

  1. Reche Caldwell

    23 vote(s)
    30.7%
  2. Chad Jackson

    52 vote(s)
    69.3%
  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    No doubt we expect Jackson to be the #2 WR of the future (maybe even a 1a) - but who do you think will win the job this year?

    There's a strong contingent of Patsfans on the board here who feel that we were fine at WR even before the draft, and that Caldwell was ready to step in as our #2 WR - that he is even a potential #1 caliber WR.

    I hope they are right - and indeed, with a rookie - even a rookie predicted by some to be selected as high as #13 - rookie WRs sometimes need some time to develop.

    So who is going to be our #2 WR this year? Will Reche Caldwell be the latest guy to make the Chargers look bad by letting him go, regardless of his poor past production?

    Will Jackson be ready for prime time at #2 by the time the season rolls around?
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At the start of the season, I'm saying Caldwell. Jackson will likely develop fast enough to challenge for it as the season goes on and we'll see how Caldwell is doing.
  3. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    Well it'll depend in training camp in preseason. I think Caldwell will start out the season at #2, but it could change at some point in the season with Jackson stepping in. You never know how Caldwell could turn out this season, hopefully he'll turn out to be pretty productive. I have a feeling he will turn out to have a season a lot better than his ones in San Diego. But Brady will have plenty of go to guys. I expect Branch and Watson to be his favorite targets.
    Last edited: May 1, 2006
  4. Ceresco

    Ceresco Rookie

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    I think as PAtriots fans we should hope it's Jackson because Caldwell is no number 2 receiver.
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Caldwell's got a second chance here so I'm pulling for him... and it may be worth mentioning that he too was drafted in the 2nd round... ahead of David Givens.
  6. Joker

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    Who says Caldwell even sticks on the roster...June 1st camp cuts could bring a number of veteran WR's into our sights...performance in camp is the only true measure of who plays and who doesn't...we haven't even got a completed roster filled out yet
  7. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    My hopes ... and thoughts ... exactly.
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I suppose that's possible.. the Bolts sure didn't think he was worth re-signing even for relatively low money - but he'd have to be pretty bad to get pushed all the way off the roster, so I hope not.

    Bottom line is that BB and the boys clearly didn't feel we were fully stocked at WR - I'd bet they are on the lookout for other bodies as well... I'm not expecting as many June 1st cuts this year given the high cap, but we might still be in the market for trades or late camp cuts
  9. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Don't you mean he was drafted ahead of Deion Branch? All the WRs in 2002 except one to TB were drafted ahead of Givens.

    #
    48 Caldwell
    65 Branch
    253 Givens

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2002
    Last edited: May 1, 2006
  10. DaBruinz

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    Do you understand the premise behind the June 1st cuts? It was put in so that teams in cap trouble could help free up money by cutting veterans and spreading the cap hit over two years.

    This year, its highly UNLIKELY that there will be ANY cap cuts since MOST teams are 5-6 million under the cap. Might there be some? Maybe. But why cut a guy in June who you can bring into camp and use for insurance purposes?

    BTW, if you knew anything about Caldwell and the situation he came out of, you'd know that its much more likely that he would stick on the roster than it is for him to get cut.
    You're making an assumption that the Chargers didn't want to keep him around. They could have wanted to have cheaper players at the #3 and #4 WR positions since those are positions that rarely see the ball in their offense. Or Caldwell could have decided that he wanted to go somewhere else where he'd see more than 20-25 passes a year. Gates, Tomlinson, Parker and McCardell are their primary weapons. Their primary offensive set is 2RB,2WR,1TE. I think that will be adding more 2RB, 2TE,1WR sets because of acquiring Brandon Manumaleuna from the Rams after already having Antonio Gates and Justin Peelle.
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  11. DaBruinz

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    2 things:
    1) The Bolts don't use many multi WR sets, so their #3 and #4 receivers are more special teamers
    2) You are making an assumption that it was the Chargers decision not to re-sign Caldwell. You seem to have totally ruled out the idea that Caldwell didn't want to stay in a situation where he'd only get 20-25 passes thrown to him a year because the offense they run is predicated around their top 4 weapons in Gates, Tomlinson, Parker and McCardell.
  12. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    There is absolutely zero chance that Caldwell doesn't make the roster. The guy is more talented than any reciever on our roster besides Branch and Jackson, by a good margin. He was on pace for a 1,000yd season before he got hurt in 2004. He's fast, he has good hands, he plays the ball well. I am a little worried that SD didn't think he was worth resigning, but I think it was more of a political move because Caldwell had two big fumbles that cost them games last year. Having watched the guy quite a bit, I am 95% sure he has what it takes to be a productive #2 in the NFL.

    I expect Caldwell to have a David Patten, circa 2001/02, type year. In fact look at Patten's career prior to 2001, very similar to Caldwell. A fifth year guy who was having trouble sticking and found the right place in New England.

    Jackson, like 90% of all WRs, needs time to develop. It's not very likely at all that he is starting at the beginning of the season. It's not even very likely that he'll take over the job by the end of the year.

    Look at our reception leaders from 2002, Branch's rookie year:

    T. Brown 97 rec, 890 yds
    D. Patten 61 rec, 824 yds
    D. Branch 43 rec, 489 yds

    I expect a very similar outcome, except with Branch, Caldwell then Jackson.
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    How much cap room do we have, again? When the cuts come, I think BB will go after a solid WR with experience to fill the #2 spot. This corps is too thin right now, IMO, and we need to fill it out a bit.
  14. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    I think we go in with the WRs we have now. Maybe some camp fodder, but we won't be signing another #2 caliber WR before camp.
  15. Joker

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    whoa...slow down Mel Kiper III...I'm not making ANY assumptions...that was simply a generic "who knows" question...there is NOTHING written in stone yet...I think Caldwell will play but it's not like we haven't seen a David Terrell example around here lately...as for your assertion that there will be no June 1st cap cuts worth anything, I guess we'll just have to wait and see...unless YOU have some PROOF or a crystal ball...in which case I could care less about football info...how about tomorrow's best stock performers?

    BTW I'm not a fantasy geek, so I woulkdn't know squat about the San Diego roster, who they signed, who they wanted , who they cut or any of that world shaking fantasy minutiae that seems to boost your fragile sensibilities.
  16. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    LOL, that's funny.
  17. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Well, maybe you should become a fantasy geek. Then you would know that Terrell is a crappy comparison and Caldwell showed flashes of #1 ability in San Diego but injuries and timing worked against him.
  18. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uh..why is Terrell a bad comparison?


    Borges slammed the Patriots for taking Seymour and passing on Terrell, who was a FIRST ROUND PICK of the Bears...you want to see the MSNBC Borges take...or are you gonna just continue to vomit up this bull you're trying to sell as fact.
  19. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    and BTW...how do YOU know Caldwell showed "flashes of number one talent" in San Diego...what hack fantasy geek scribe did you get this "info" from?
  20. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Because Terrell was an underachieving, el busto from the beginning and he showed no improvement over the course of his career. Caldwell came in and worked his way up improving over the course of his first three seasons. Unfortunately he got injured early in his third season, but he was on pace for a solid season that year and he was San Diego's go to receiver.

    From San Diego fans I talked to after the trade, along with watching some San Diego games over the last few years.

    BTW, there's no reason to be bitter towards fantasy geeks because we know more than you.
  21. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    I say Cawdwell will start as number 2, but Jackson will be a number 2 target by seasons end... I also think there will be another WR in camp, but it looks like we signed 2 udfa .. So we might be set/
  22. Joker

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    BTW, there's no reason to be bitter towards fantasy geeks because we know more than you.

    know more about what?

    fantasy means exactly what it implies....NOT REAL...you're an idiot, drunk on your own self important belief that because you can parrot 40 times and know the 4th and 5th receivers on the Arizona Cardinals depth chart, that makes you special...you're a GEEK. It's idiots like you that would argue for ten years why Troy Brown is a lousy player and how YOU would never rate him worthy of your "fantasy" squad. And BTW, you must be drunk right now....when was
    Caldwell EVER SD's #1 receiver? Obviously you are some Left Coast wingnut "dude" with a skateboard and an I-Pod trippin' on some tasty shrooms at Mission Beach...you have to be to think Reche caldwell has been SD's #1 receiver...I mean 2 year old kids back here in NE know Gates is the MAN....all I know is when Caldwell was announced back here, the reaction was "this guy?"...really "dude", he's not all this big "America's Greatest Superhero" guy you're trying to make him out to be...I hope he CAN contribute but I have to think BB is going to be looking at more than a few other WR's before this roster is finalized
  23. PatsFanInVa

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    My my we seem to be in yet another subjective wasteland.

    Okay, I have one reason for thinking Caldwell is the more likely #2 receiver - NFL experience.

    Okay, so Anquan Boldin came in and had a monster first year. Some receivers do. Most do not. We do not know which Chad Jackson is yet - after all, he comes into a situation rife with opportunity. But I personally agree that Caldwell has shown flashes of brilliance. And who else is there after him and the rook? Bethel Johnson is lucky if he can show flashes of adequacy.

    I'm not ruling out that Chad Jackson is this year's NFL-ready rookie sensation at his position. After all, all he has to do is get open consistently in a much faster, much higher-level game. If he does do that, the future's just plain scary bright.

    But more likely, he will come in and get his 40 catches, 30 catches, whatever. It's just the way of most rookie receivers.

    Caldwell's been at that level. The reason he's here is he is tired of being at that level (and being outperformed by the freaking tight end, for God's sake.) Or, the Chargers don't trust him to get past that level. BB thinks he's got it in him to get past that level, evidently. We'll see.

    PFnV
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First off. You seem to have some serious reading comprehension issues plus I wonder if you understand the english language very well. You did not raise a question about Caldwell. You made a statement. Also, I SPECIFICALLY used the phrase HIGHLY UNLIKELY regarding the potential for June 1st cuts. Also, I never made any assertions that there wouldn't be any June 1st cuts worth anything. My assertion was that it was highly unlikely that teams would make ANY June 1st cuts this year. PERIOD. I mentioned nothing about the quality of players.

    I am not a fantasy geek as you say. What I am is an educated football fan who happened to live in San Diego 3 years ago and currently lives in Orange County. I've seen 5 or 6 fewer Charger games than I have seen Pats games over the last 4 years (I've watched every Patriots game that's been played in the last 4 years). I have the information available and the knowledge from watching the games to make the statements.

    Now, as for you comments about June 1st. They clearly show that you don't understand the salary cap and the purpose of the June 1st date in the CBA. THIS YEAR and this year only, the June 1st date is nearly meaningless. As I said. Its because teams KNOW they have the cap money that they won't have to cut players until the cut down to 75 people when they lose the NFLE exemptions. And that is the 2nd to last week of training camp.

    Now, if you'd like to bring something of value to the argument regarding what I said. Please do so. But make sure that you have done the homework to back up your position. Its clear that either you haven't or you don't understand what is being said.

    And it doesn't take some one like Mel Kiper to understand that.
  25. Joker

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    STFU you self important windbag....I've been a Patriots fan since the mid 60's...the last thing I need to read is some young wet behind the ears Cali punk bragging about his wealth of knowledge because he's been following the Pats for FOUR freaking years...you have NO CLUE who will or who will not be available after June 1st....use YOUR reading comprehension...I said I'll wait until then before I jump on the "THIS IS ALL WE HAVE!!! OH NO!!!" crybaby wagon.You make the claim that there will be NO players cut for cap reasons OR for any other reason it seems, at the June 1st date becasue every team is well under the cap...you are a liar.

    You are also the idiot that's been crying about the Patriots not picking any linebackers and how this is "weal baaaad for the Patwiots.."....if you wewre alive back in the 80's you'd have been one of those nitwits that went beserk when we drafted Nellie because North dakota State wasn't on your list of schools that "highly educated" football fans consider any good.

    Let's just wait until June 1st and see what happens...you take your "no players!!!! All teams way way under cap!!! nobody will be there!!! I'm the genius who knows everything!!! For four years!!!!" position and I'll just wait and see for myself...you see, to ME you are a classic frontrunner...a johnny come lately bandwagon jumper....you have that classic snotty West Coast superiority thing going on strong but you're just another Johnny Come Lately bandwagon jumper...you'd be better served switching team allegiance to the Cardinals now that they have the proto SoCal hipster kewl dewd QB.
  26. Gon_Trevil

    Gon_Trevil Rookie

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    I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of arguing anything with this guy. Obviously he is too brilliant.
  27. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A few things. Most "Fantasy Geeks" know the importance of a Troy Brown to real football teams and I can guarantee you that there were Fantasy Geeks who had Troy Brown on their rosters in 2001 and 2002. How do I know this? Because they would come onto the Pats ESPN board and ask how we though Troy was going to do.

    Any 2 year old in New England KNOWS that Gates is a TE, NOT a Wide Receiver. And anyone who has some knowledge of San Diego football knows that in 2004, Caldwell won a starting job opposite Eric Parker coming out of camp and that Caldwell was playing extremely well as the 3rd option in their passing game. Yes, even as the #1 wide receiver to Parker's #1A, he was 3rd/4th on the option chart because of All-Pro LaDanian Tomlinson and All-Pro Antonio Gates. I can't knock a guy for being the 3rd/4th option behind those two. Not when he was San Diego's leading WR prior to his injury. Nor can I knock the guy for falling to the 5th option behind Parker (who continued to get better while Caldwell was hurt), McCardell, Gates and Tomlinson last year. You know, when Caldwell was still recovering from his ACL.

    No one is trying to make Caldwell out to be "America's Greatest Superhero." We are pointing out to you LEGITIMATE facts that need to be taken into consideration when evaluting Caldwell.

    Oh, and BTW, why is it that you ignore perfectly legitimate points? Like the idea that maybe Caldwell wanted to go to an offense where he KNEW that he would see more than 20-30 passes a year if he regained his form? Even Troy Brown had 39 receptions last year as the #3 receiver on the Pats. And #3 receivers on the Pats have regularly caught 35 or more passes a year the last 3 years.

    Now, the Patriots currently have 88 players who are signed or they have the rights too (80 players + 8 NFLE Examptions). Of those 88, the following are WRs:
    Deion Branch, Chad Jackson, Reche' Caldwell, Troy Brown, Bam Childress, John Stone, Rich Musinski, Mike McGrew, Bethel Johnson, Zuriel Smith, and Matt Shelton.

    Could the Pats cut someone and sign someone else? Sure. There are still some vet. Free agents out there. Would you care to offer up who you would want on the roster to replace the guys we currently have?

    David Boston (no thanks), Dez White, Randy Hymes, Kevin Johnson (no thanks), Ricky Proehl (hasn't won a SB since his 2001 predicition), Johnnie Morton (old), Reggie Swinton (STer only), Eddie Berlin, Troy Edwards, Patrick Johnson, Jerome Pathon.

    Kelley Washington is also, supposedly, being shopped around in trade. But, I don't particularly care for him.
  28. Gon_Trevil

    Gon_Trevil Rookie

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    Sheer genius. How can one man know so much, without even bothering to look up evidence for a word he says? I wish I was that smart.
  29. DaBruinz

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    a
    Joker - WOW. You sure told me. Acutally, you didn't. All you showed is that you are too ignorant and actually don't know much about anything. No matter how long you claim to have been following the Patriots.

    Here are the facts for your.
    I've been a Patriots fan since 1982. So, your claims that I am "wet behind the ears" is absolutely ignorant on your part.

    Also, I've only lived in California for the past 4+ years after moving out here from North Carolina where I lived for 6 months. Prior to that, I lived in Salem, NH from 1978 -1986 and 1988-2001. 1986-1988, I lived in Germany. Nothing like showing that your an arrogant POS with your self-righteous garbage and attacking me for where I live because YOU can't actually engage in an educated debate.

    Again, I read your post and never made any claims about what you said. I clarified what I said, which you clearly did not understand. I NEVER SAID that there would be NO PLAYERS cut on June 1st. I said it was highly UNLIKELY. And I gave a very VALID reason for it. Just because you don't like that reason doesn't change what I said or invalidate what I said. So, that makes YOU the liar.

    No, I'm the educated football fan who doesn't BLINDLY follow the flock and can think for myself. And I am human and admit I can be wrong at times. Those are qualities you don't seem to have. Just becuse I don't like the fact that the Patriots didn't address the LB corps in the 1st round doesn't make me an idiot. It makes me a person with my own opinion.

    Also, I was alive back in the 80's. I was actually born in 1973. Started following the Bruins in 1979. Started with the Sox in Spring of 1980 and then the Patriots in 1982. And NO. I wouldn't have been one of the "nitwits" as you call them , that would have gone beserk over the drafting of Steve Nelson. I didn't start following the draft until 1997. And I can be HONEST about that.


    Your personal attacks on me show how arrogant you truly are. I find it truly amazing that because of where I live and what my screen name is, you think that I am a bandwagoner. My screen name is DaBruinz because hockey is my 1st love of sports and the BOSTON BRUINS are my favortie hockey team. I still have my poster signed by Dave Christian. My hockey card signed by Cam Neely when he and Janney were rookies. My poster of Joe Juneau. My autographed picture of Andy Moog. My Moog Jersey. My Samsonov Jersey.

    I would appreciate it if you stop your lying about me. Its pathetic. Especially when the proof is in the posts that I did not make the claims you are saying I made.

    I am no front runner. I am a die hard Pats, Sox, and Bruins fan. Been that way most of my life. And nothing you say will change that, Joker. So take your personnel attacks and follow your own advice and STFU.
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  30. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Wow.

    Nasty thread.

    Sounds like the political forum.

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