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Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ago?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by shmessy, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

  2. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    I wouldn't say this current fiscal situation is due solely to Bush, though he certainly has made it worse. I know people would like to believe that, but it's certainly not true. We've been spending irresponsibly for years, and this is the result. We need someone in office who will actually change the way things are done. Sadly, I see no one in this crop of candidates that I have that level of confidence in.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Shem, consumer sentiment is almost worthless. Hard figures are what matter more. The only thing that keeps me from certifying a serious economic decline in the coming couple of years, is the jobs market. It's remained incredibly strong, especially with recent hiring figures, which means there is a demand for labor. If we see significant loss in the jobs market, then look out. As long as people are working, the economy will hold it's own. I think fuel costs are our biggest concern right now. That won't help the declining housing market at all. It'll actually make it worse.


    Decades is more like it. GW has simply poured an oil tankers worth of gas onto the fire. Government has not decreased in size in any single year since the 50's. There hasn't been a cut. Whether it's military spending, or entitlements, this country was headed to fiscal implosion a long, long time ago. Nobody wants to make the necessary, and unpopular decisions that will set us on a path to long term efficiency.
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Most people are just a bunch of sheep who do and say what they're told to. Othersise the right track/wrong track wouldn't have something like 21% saying right track - it's ridiculous.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Under Clinton, the Democrats wisely stole the banner of fiscal responsibility with regard to the deficit. Reagan and Bush II made a travesty of our budget, and for that reason that Democrats are reasonably well poised among independents. If Hillary is elected, we'll probably return to responsible fiscal management. But, on what basis would anyone at this point trust a Republican in that regard? The word 'conservative' may mean fiscally responsible to some, but the reality simply does not reflect that. I think the Democrats for purely political reasons will continue to be fiscally conservative with regard to the budget since it gives them a powerful political weapon.

    I think the gold line is most significant in this chart.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Let's remember that Reagan had a Cold War to fight and win, while Clinton had nothing to worry about during his tenure. That affects the numbers in a multitude of ways. Furthermore, if it's the gold line that is the most critical, then GW is right in line with the last 30+ years. The peak over that time seems to be somewhere around 23%, with the low being somewhere at 19%. GW is a shade over 20%. BTw, got the link to that site, I'd like to see what the analysis is.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Reagan chose to fight the cold war and cut taxes. He didn't have to, and I question what good it did us.

    Well, what the line shows in increased spending and the blue line shows decreased revenues. Not a good a approach to fiscal responsibility.

    I found the chart through an image search, but it apparently comes from somewhere on this site:

    http://www.bea.gov/
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Other than Iraq, what spending of Bush's are you against ? Seems to me that most of his other spending has been on things you would like . . .
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Iraq is plenty. I don't think there needs to be anything else. If you're going to wage war, then also make it good for the economy. Can you think of another case offhand where war was actually bad for the economy? He should have taken advantage of the prosperity that war tends to create to make aggressive progress against the deficit. --If it was a Democrat instituting national health care, which I think will at least initially be very good for the economy (simply because it's a whole new industry), they should raise taxes, cut military (mainly Iraq), and lower the deficit.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    That's fine, it's a valid opinion but a lot of his other spending (like prescription drugs added to Medicare) is a big part of the increase of government spending under Bush and I think you'd favor most of it.
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    You're right, and I'm not even against deficit spending, but I also support higher taxes if necessary to keep the economy in balance. Bush tried to have it all. It didn't work.
     
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    I'm against more spending than you :)

    Iraq war - end.
    SCHIP - nope.
    More spending on schools - nope.
    Prescription drugs added to Medicare - cancel.

    And that's just the beginning.
     
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag



    Absolutely correct! Reagan had to re-build the entire military infrastructure that Jimmy Carter had dismantled (resulting, not coincidentally, in some 12 more countries joining the Soviet sphere of influence world wide).

    Now, after Clinton did absolutely NOTHING to go after the Islamic terrorists during the 1990s (first World Trade Tower attack, two embassies in Africa bombed, the USS Cole blown up, and a host of other vicious terrorist attacks) we get hit by 9/11, and so Bush has to do all the heavy lifting.

    Thanks God Bush hasn't cut and run, or we'd have lost a lot more big buildings and stand-out landmarks in the U.S. and around the world. I'm convinced al qaeda and the other terrorist groups were ready and about to destroy the White House and the Capitol building in DC. The Sears Tower in Chicago was on the "A" list, as was the John Han**** in our beloved Boston.

    People tend to forget or even dismiss these horrors, but if they had happened the U.S. today would be a far more weakened position in front of the world than we could imagine. Such weakness would have encouraged China and Russia to re-visit their strategies of world conquest, leading to a probable nuclear confrontation.

    Bush has prevented all this, yet some people continue to trash him. History will be a lot kinder to GW Bush than this present, self-indulgent generation has been.

    //
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    The Soviets collapsed far more because of its internal reform movement and the Catholic Church than anything Reagan did. Reagan's key accomplishment was to trust Gorby, which forced the American conservatives to align with a fairly liberal position. After all, the Soviets were the evil empire.

    What did Bush do during his first 8 months?

    You mean like Reagan did in Lebanon?

    Yeah, they had lots planned. Look at all the attacks they engaged in in the period after 9/11 before Bush had a chance to implement broad security measures.

    We were never weak. How dare you insult our military. :rofl:

    History is already recognizing Bush as the worst president, and that's unlikely to change.
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag


    Actually, Rev. Moon stated publicly in early-mid 1980s that the Soviet Union and communism was in its final days. Reagan took the hint and went for a total re-build of America's ability to defend herself, and the Soviets, more and more weakened in its world-wide dominance design, by BOTH internal freedoms and internal corruption, could not keep up.

    Bush was getting about one-tenth of the truthful facts he from a sleeping intelligence community who had been fed the Clintonian/liberal/hippie/1960s edict: "war and preparation for war is immoral; we must dismantle our defense capabilities. Peace, love, get high, have sex with anybody you like any time you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah". Such a lie.

    With the defense and intelligence infrastructure he inherited from the Carter years, he was lucky only one Marine barracks was blown up. The U.S. was so weakened by the liberals who had dismantled our defense department, it was a shameful crime.

    With world-wide public sentiment so much in sympathy for the United States, any further attacks would have prompted all but a handful of self-serving nations in the world to volunteer to get the perpetrators. Would have been suicide for the suicide killers to launch another attack immediately after 9/11. Plus, you totally ignore the massive immediate measures that went into effect days after 9/11. I myself had to fly from Boston to California three weeks after 9/11 and it was like a movie, with all the soldiers, police, x-ray machines, lon-n-n-g-g-g lines, etc.

    I'd say Bush enacted enough security to thwart at least several more planned attacks.

    You think it is a joke what Carter and the liberal establishment did to weaken America? I do not.

    "Already"??? What the hell.... ??!! The guy is still in office and you are already calling it "history"?? Your hatred and disdain for the man is going to be something you will come to regret in the future. Bush is a man who loves America and cares about her, is ready and willing to defend her. The Clintons are the opposite. Both Bill and Hillary have no clue as to where America stands in the world, who America's enemies are, and how to deal with them. Not a clue, as evidenced by Bill allowing radical Muslims to learn how to fly jumbo jets [highlight] but NOT how to land them!! [/highlight] He left all the heavy lifting to Bush and the rest of us, and now he has the gall to want to return to the White House?!!! No way.

    //
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Yes, I do, and I favor national health care. That's why I support tax increases, and I don't have too much concern at what level it starts. E.g., I'd be just as happy with a 10% tax increase for everyone earning over $500k as a 5% tax increase for everyone earning over $250k if you get my drift.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    I'll never sign up for national healthcare. That should never, and hopefully will never happen.

    I love M&M economics. Raise taxes 10% to increase government. In the meantime that 10% increase will result in slowed economic growth. So an increase in government, combined with increased taxes, and slowed growth, will mean what exactly? More, and more defecits and debt. Sign me up!
     
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Re: Who Was It That Was Crowing About High Consumer Sentiment Numbers A Few Months Ag

    Ummmm, off the top of my head?

    $4 billion in grants to Big Oil (you know, the nice folks who met with Cheney behind closed doors in 2002 to craft our nation's "Energy Policy"?).

    Of course it is needed! Those poor Exxon, Texaco, Halliburton (oops, that's a Dubai company now isn't it? :) ) folks.

    BTW, it's a far better way to spend money than wasting it on poor kids' medical costs.
     

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