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Who should be blamed for this loss?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TB=TD, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. TB=TD

    TB=TD Rookie

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    Is it Tom Brady and his lack of first half production? Or maybe the Special Teams and it's missed kick/turnover? How about that defense and its Fourth quarter collapse? Lets not forget about your opponent who also gets paid to play this game.




















    BTW it's all of the above.....
  2. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Everybody had a piece in it (my comment after Edelman's fumble was that when it rains, it pours), but the offense and the turnovers in particular were the biggest culprit.
  3. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i think last years 14-2 team was just a product of Brady playing out of he's mind, we was thinking that adding Ocho and Haynesworth was going to take this team over the top when maybe all this team was is a 10 or 11 win team and they are on pace for that.... so maybe there is no one to blem
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    There wasn't a single aspect of the game where we didn't make mistakes. It's a team game so everybody deserves blame.
  5. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    Win as a team.
    Lose as a team.

    Next
  6. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dyam that's a great article...he gutted the game like a fishmonger does a carp...again...what the hell did the offense work on all week????
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Plenty of blame to go around, but it was the defense that wet itself at the end.
  9. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, Bedard is usually a damn good source for articles like this. And notice what he did. He blamed execution. Not the personnel, not the quality of the coaches, and not the personnel decisions. I wish we could have more of what Bedard did and less of what the average PatsFans poster does.
  10. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly, which is why that is what everyone blames.

    It's like the little league (baseball) tournament in the summer prior to my 8th grade year. We were the heavy favorites, but lost in the first round. One of my teammates did not know (don't ask why) that he needed to tag first before going to second after one of the opposing players caught a pop fly just out of bounds. He was the final out of the game. He was devastated, and got an undeserving amount of the blame. Yet so much bad play had to happen before that to put us in the position where him getting out there even mattered. It was like that today. The defense failed in the end, but a lot had to happen before that to put the defense in that position, and a lot of what happened before that final drive wasn't the defense's fault.

    Oh, and my little league tournament was double elimination, and we came back to win. That's the only reason I bothered telling that story. There is hope for the Pats!:D
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) The offense played poorly, but got the job done when it had to.

    2.) The offense did what I expected it would, and said it would after last week's game when I said the match up was favorable to the defense, right up to the point where it crapped out at the end of the game.

    It was a team loss, with huge coaching gaffes, major special teams blunders as well as the issues with both the offense and defense. However, your arguments on the subject have been lousy. The "other than" argument was a joke, the attempted equation of one drive without a stiff safety and an entire game without the WR1 and RB1 was a bigger joke, and the notion that you can just clear the collapse of the defense because of things that happened earlier, when it was a two drive collapse of 80+ yards each, and not aided by helmet catches and the like, is absurd.

    The Patriots put 20 points on the board. This isn't the Super Bowl, where even 17 points would have been enough to get to overtime.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  12. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't have to accept my conclusion, but the premise that the defense was pretty good for most of the game is pretty hard to deny. 100% bad in 10% of the game doesn't completely outweigh 5% bad for the other 90% of the game.

    Not calling them equal. Just close enough to equal that you can't mention one without ignoring the other, which you did.

    The defense was not ideal. It's still not the reason they lost that game. That last drive should've never mattered in the first place.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, it does precisely that. That's just the way it works in high level sports. You can take good things from the game, but that 100% bad does, indeed, end up outweighing the rest.


    But they're not close enough to equal, and common sense should show that. See, the problem here is that you look at numbers, but you don't think much about how they apply. That's how you ended up with the "trade Welker" nonsense back in the past. You do the same thing with your other arguments. You're ok with getting facts, but you fail at processing them. You don't give the Patriots a pass for having Brown in the games, when Brown rotates into the games anyway. White, I'd give you, if it weren't for the fact that he was a much smaller part of how the Giants scored on that drive.

    Actually, the defense was absolutely the reason that the Patriots lost the game. That's a 100% certainty. It was given the lead and pissed it away with penalties and poor play. That's 100% on the defense. I have no problem noting that while the defense is the reason, it's only deserving of part of the blame, but that's not the same thing, and you seem to be unable to discern that difference even as you use it against Brady in reverse, in your gripes about the offense.

    As for the "that last drive" argument, that's just silliness on your part.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    to this viewer it is simple...

    3 Offensive Turnovers
    0 First Half Points
    1 Special Teams Turnover
    1 missed field goal
    2 really shytty penalties on the last two drives..

    (F) All of the above
  15. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    Even in Ireland the giants fans are having fun. Sit not too far from one.


    Its going to be a long day.


    On the blame thing.

    yeah. Lots to go around everywhere.

    Obvious statement but that Roster needs a major over haul.

    And If
    1a isn't a pass rusher
    1b OR 2A a WR I may just have a seizure. Lots of real bad play calling too. 1.54 1st and ten deep into enemy territory. and to take 18 seconds off the clock while scoring.

    Damn.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  16. Casss

    Casss Rookie

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    Better question: Who isn't to blame?
  17. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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  18. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    As Belichick said it came down to the Giants making a few more plays than the Pats, I'll say they would have pulled it out if not for Brady running a horrible 2 min offense at the end (It seemed as if Brady was purposely trying to leave time on the clock) and Chung looking clueless going for the phantom interception instead of trying to dislodge the ball against the Ballard 30 yd reception.
  19. BendButDontBreak37

    BendButDontBreak37 Banned

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    Brady's regression when faced with the least bit of pressure is downright comical. Analysts used to praise Brady for his pocket presence years ago. Now, anytime a defender does so much as to wave a finger in his face Brady goes into this fetal position standing up. And then, when he realizes the defender wasn't that close, he ducks into a fetal position again and heads for the ground when he sees another defender coming from yards away.

    On top of that, I assume because of the knee injury, he can't even move with agility within the pocket anymore. He used to slide and glide around the pocket to side step the rush. Now, his lateral movements look like he has the Forest Gump metal braces attached to his legs. His legs look so stiff that I'm certain at times they're going to break in half.
  20. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gost's shank is really going unsaid. Brady Scores and the score 22-17, obviously Bill is going for 2 with the classic Woodhead direct snap.

    The score is 24-17, defense collapses, we go into OT.
  21. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    The offense more although the D just needed to cover that PA, hell they just need to play smart and not commit penalties on two drives.

    Brady forced way too much to Ocho, we only have 2 1/2 recievers and those passes were better off targeted at Welker, as usual we have no shot at 25 let alone 30 points without Welker.
  22. Observer

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  23. TheBostonStraggler

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    After the shellacking the D took last week, they played very well this week. To blame the D because of the last drive is like saying the O would have been at fault last week because they didn't score on their last possession (with the assumption they would have had 2 minutes on the final drive).
    In the last couple of minutes, teams often go into a one dimensional, riskier offense to get the needed score. You see good defenses across the league give up that final score in the final two minuets due to this. It was unfortunate that Brown caused the flag, but it is what it is on that. They were damn close to forcing the FG even with first and goal from the 1.

    While I would not argue that this is ultimately a team loss, it is puzzling, again after last week's performance, to hear people say this one goes on the D when they allowed 0 points through 2 quarters and, in effect, allowed 17 points total and gave the O the ball back time after time.

    Kudos to Brady for the score on the final drive but thumbs down to him and the coaching staff for abysmal clock management (if there is a single failure to point to, this is the one). The Giants NEVER should have had as much time as they did. I'd swear the Patriots were operating that drive like they needed another possession.

    I'll be satisfied if the D can play this well every week. However, if the O is going to perform like it did, the Patriots are going to have a real uphill battle to win the division and even make the playoffs. Whatever ails this O better get fixed soon otherwise there is going to be a lot of long faces PatriotNation Sunday evening too often.
  24. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Sadly, Brady is going to have to target '85' more. I agree it seemed forced, however, the route and coverage was there for completions. For whatever reason, '85' is not on the same page as Brady. Brady expects him to cut here, he doesn't. Brady throws the ball to spot A, '85' goes to spot C or D.

    It seems teams are putting no emphasis on '85' and that is probably causing Welker/Brach extra coverage (and why Brady is looking and looking for the open guy that just isn't there). I believe Brady was targeting '85' because he SHOULD be the go to guy based on coverage. If the Patriots can't make teams pay for their over emphasis on Welker and/or Branch by hitting '85', then consider me squarely in the camp of pushing '85' aside and trying another body in that position. Brady being able to hit '85' may just be, as over dramatic as this sounds, the lynchpin for whether the O can return to being potent versus their current mediocre play.

    The Patriots have GOT to make teams pay for the coverage they are using (and all will be using) and '85' is candidate #1 to help make this happen.
  25. vyrago

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    Could he be a mole bought and paid for by Footsy Ryan?
  26. ensoul

    ensoul Rookie

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    The logical part of my says everybody is to blame. Special teams with their fumbles and a missed FG, Offense and their 3 and outs, fumbles and INT. Defense on their last 2 drives.

    Since I am still pissed I am blaming this on the defense. Offense was better as the game went on and scored on their last 4 drives. Plus as bad as they were they came through and scored.The defense on the other hand pissed down its leg by allowing 14 points in 3 minutes. The only players I know in the secondary are Chung and Mccourty. (although I will not forget the name Brown) This defense is not getting better and it all comes back to unless Brady has a close to perfect game the pats are not winning the game.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  27. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    I don't blame them for rushing on that last drive, our offense is typical 3 yds to Welker all day, tons of 3rd down, tons of passes in coverage lately leading to INTs.

    The thinking had to be if we the TE drops it or Brady misses him, or Brady throws a pick in the end zone, all realistic options suddenly, we could get the usual stop on Eli and have another shot with maybe a minute left. I don't blame them, the offense blows suddenly and if we run it down to 10 seconds and Brady throws a pick we are screwed, this is how we have to play with these recievers, fast drives because we waste so many, we need as many drives as possible to score a respectable league average.

    I can't believe I am talking NE here.
  28. SeymourTrophies

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    Tommy misses his best friend. That line is in a bad way for the first time in a long time, and Tom is forcing a lot more throws than I've seen since 2006. I think it's because Koppen is gone.

    Naturally, the defense isn't ideal, but the defense plays to cling for dear life and not give up more than 25 points. Segio Brown :0
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  29. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

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    I blame the New York Giants.
  30. SyN65

    SyN65 Rookie

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    Everyone has a piece in it.

    Offense did nothing all game, couldn't put points on the board. Brady is a big part of that.

    Defense definitely held it's own (although Giants were without some of their best weapons) until the last drive where they completely fell apart. I remember Wilfork said after the Steelers loss he would love to be in a situation where the defense has to win the game...welp guess what you were and you blew it.

    Special teams just SUCKS. Edelman fumble. Never getting past the 20. WTF?

    In a way I'm kind of happy this is happening. We need a year where we suck. I knew last year our 14-2 was a fraud, but it seems like it wasn't as widely known. This is the team we were last year (probably worse) just not as lucky. We need a year like this to wake everyone up. Hopefully BB makes some moves in the draft to get impact players NOW and brings in some coordinators to help out.
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