Who Is Satisfied With Our Secondary?

[Ivan]

Just note along with Dee Milliner, DJ Hayden will be long gone by the Patriots are too select in the draft unless they trade up to the top half of the draft. He's had a rapid Stephon Gilmore-esque rise up draft boards among teams in the top 16 after more tape study and less red flag concerns since he was cleared medically. Reports are that some teams, and not mock draft gurus, already peg him as a superior prospect to Milliner and may end up leapfrogging him in the process. That's entirely not surprising given his overall skillset.

The main reason he wasn't rated as highly before among the mock draft community was because of his health concerns, which as stated above are now nonexistent. Don't be shocked to see him picked in the top 16, like many were when Gilmore got picked by the Bills last year. Anyone who paid close attention the Bills last season, could see that Gilmore was a vastly superior player during the latter part of the season than he was at the beginning of it as he was often times tasked with coverage on teams' #1 WR. He's a star in the making. Hayden and Gilmore are very similar to one another.

The only CB in that range in the first round that the Patriots could select is Taylor, but he too may be gone by then. It should be interesting to see how it all shapes up.

While i agree that Hayden is moving up rapidly that in no way guarantees him a high first selection, as you are suggesting. he may go high or he could still be on the board when they are picking, I'll wait until the draft shakes out, this one is too volatile to make many such "lock" claims

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichick obviously believes he can still play or he wouldn't have brought him in. Whether he is right or not remains to be seen but having addressed the position by moving a first round pick there, using a second for T. Wilson and then signing A. Wilson I seriously doubt he is going to go S again high in this draft. I agree on corner and can see them taking one high if the right guy is still on the board.

Belichick brings in numbers of aging FAs pretty much every year. Most of them go by the wayside. Wilson was being sat on passing downs in Arizona. As for the CB stuff, I suspect you and I will simply never agree on this topic. I don't see any justificiation for taking one before round 3.

 

[Mack Herron]

While I prioritize WR and DL, I have no trouble drafting a CB and a S. Teams have to have draft success because it is simply too expensive to build entirely through free agency. Even if Talib overcomes personal and injury baggage, he is a free agent with no assurance of being re-signed next year. Drafting a CB now might put him in position to step in next year (and give insurance and leverage with Talib). As for safety, McCourty looks like he ought to be a solid safety, but he has never done it for a full season so we cannot say he is a sure thing. After that, there is nothing but question marks (Wilsons) or holes (Gregory). We need another safety with enough speed to cover the deep field and also be solid in run support. Remember when BB drafted Solder when we already had Vollmer and Light so there was no "need" at T?

 

[jmt57]

The way I see it free agency is more of a short term solution, and the draft is more of a long term solution. So although the Pats may be okay at cornerback and safety for the 2013 season, that does not mean that they won't or should not consider using an early draft pick on those positions.

Aqib Talib will be gone next year; if he has a good season then he will find a bigger payday than the Pats will give him as a free agent, and if the does not play well then the Pats won't re-sign him. That leaves a void at the position (unless you really want to count on Dowling), which means it would make sense to use a draft pick on a CB.

At safety there is McCourty, an older player (Wilson Sr.), an unproven player (Wilson Jr.), and a player with a limited ceiling (Gregory). Again, using a pick on a player for this position would not be a bad idea.

Obviously WR and DL are higher priorities, but just because that is so, it does not mean that the Pats should not use a day two pick (or two) on CB and S; depending on possible trade downs it may make even more sense.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick brings in numbers of aging FAs pretty much every year. Most of them go by the wayside. Wilson was being sat on passing downs in Arizona. As for the CB stuff, I suspect you and I will simply never agree on this topic. I don't see any justificiation for taking one before round 3.

Some play well and others fail, we'll see. As for justifying a high pick at CB it depends entirely upon their evaluations of the prospects who are available. I have no idea how the Patriots have these guys rated but if they believe that Hayden or Taylor will be perennial pro bowlers while their other options won't be as good then they will not only take them but have made the right move in doing so. If I can have an all pro quality CB or a #2 WR then i will take the CB every time, even if I have a greater need at WR, which they clearly do. Same goes for DE/OLB, if Werner is still there then I would take him and go for the WR in the 2nd and 3rd and forego CB if the ratings are equal.

 

[Ivan]

The way I see it free agency is more of a short term solution, and the draft is more of a long term solution. So although the Pats may be okay at cornerback and safety for the 2013 season, that does not mean that they won't or should not consider using an early draft pick on those positions.

Aqib Talib will be gone next year; if he has a good season then he will find a bigger payday than the Pats will give him as a free agent, and if the does not play well then the Pats won't re-sign him. That leaves a void at the position (unless you really want to count on Dowling), which means it would make sense to use a draft pick on a CB.

At safety there is McCourty, an older player (Wilson Sr.), an unproven player (Wilson Jr.), and a player with a limited ceiling (Gregory). Again, using a pick on a player for this position would not be a bad idea.

Obviously WR and DL are higher priorities, but just because that is so, it does not mean that the Pats should not use a day two pick (or two) on CB and S; depending on possible trade downs it may make even more sense.

The problem being that they were unable to meet their big need at WR in free agency and are left with needing the draft to be utilized for immediate need over long term. That doesn't mean they should ignore it as a factor and take a prospect purely for positional need but it certainly means that if the ratings are close then the need trumps. However if they have Jesse Williams, Tyler Eifert, DJ Hayden, or even Alec Ogletree rated significantly higher than a justin Hunter or R. Woods then they will take the higher rated prospect and address the need another way.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I'm very satisfied, totally expecting Ras-I Dowling to be a stud next year! Gotta get one more good corner to mitigate the disaster that is Arrington outside if Talib gets hurt.

 

[Deus Irae]

... If I can have an all pro quality CB or a #2 WR then i will take the CB every time, even if I have a greater need at WR...

Neither I nor BB agree with you on this one, since he factors need into his 'value' equation.

 

[Ivan]

Neither I nor BB agree with you on this one, since he factors need into his 'value' equation.

Thanks Bill, appreciate the clarification.

 

[Claremonster]

Who is satisfied with our secondary?

IMHO, the answer is "delusional homers or optimists".

It's fine. No need to even draft anyone this year. Trade all picks to next year.

 

[Claremonster]

I'm very satisfied, totally expecting Ras-I Dowling to be a stud next year! Gotta get one more good corner to mitigate the disaster that is Arrington outside if Talib gets hurt.

Ras I will be healthy? Ok, tell me my future too...and it better be good.

 

[AzorianPats]

Its OK. Its not great, but its far from horrible. I'd love for the team to pick up Charles Woodson for a year or 2. The guy can still ball, but in the draft pass rush and WR are more important.

 

[mgteich]

If the patriots have ANY player rated as a perennial pro bowler, we will draft him. Of course, that never happens picking at 29.

but if they believe that Hayden or Taylor will be perennial pro bowlers

 

[Ivan]

If the patriots have ANY player rated as a perennial pro bowler, we will draft him. Of course, that never happens picking at 29.

The point is simply that if they have a prospect with a much higher grade they are taking them unless there is no need whatsoever. And highly rated prospects drop every year, how they have them rated is beyond all of us because we never see their draft boards.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks Bill, appreciate the clarification.

I'm not sure why you went there with your post. I noted we'd probably disagree. You kept going. I then noted that you disagreed with both BB and myself on a particular element, but I didn't dig in the spurs in any way.

Your reponse was asinine. Let's just consider this discussion ended for this thread.

 

[Ozymandias]

While i agree that Hayden is moving up rapidly that in no way guarantees him a high first selection, as you are suggesting. he may go high or he could still be on the board when they are picking, I'll wait until the draft shakes out, this one is too volatile to make many such "lock" claims

There's no guarantee with anything. The Jets just recently traded away the foundation of their defense and were one of the 10 teams in attendance of Hayden's workout today (Rex Ryan was personally the only head coach in attendance) and were apparently impressed. Coincidence? Probably not. Will they be drafting him at pick #9 or #13? Who knows at this point. But they're definitely looking to replace Darrelle with another top positional prospect like he was in 2007.

With that said, the chances of Hayden still being on the board at pick #29 is exceedingly slimmer than the chances of him being drafted before then.

 

[BradyFTW!]

We definitely need another CB, and probably need another safety. While it's theoretically possible that Tavon and Dowling could end up being those guys, it doesn't seem prudent for a team with Super Bowl aspirations to bank on either stepping up, let alone both of them.

 

[Ivan]

I'm not sure why you went there with your post. I noted we'd probably disagree. You kept going. I then noted that you disagreed with both BB and myself on a particular element, but I didn't dig in the spurs in any way.

Your reponse was asinine. Let's just consider this discussion ended for this thread.

Not sure how you reach the conclusion that you and Belichick are using the same process but what was actually "asinine" was your contention that there is no justification for the Patriots using a first or second rounder on a CB, and my response that they would if they had them rated highly was simply common sense. The patriots have been surprising all of us year after year so any contention by anyone that they really know how they are looking at any draft is presumptuous at best.

 

[mgteich]

What you say is true in theory. If this were true in practice, Dez Bryant would be a patriot.

The point is simply that if they have a prospect with a much higher grade they are taking them unless there is no need whatsoever. And highly rated prospects drop every year, how they have them rated is beyond all of us because we never see their draft boards.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not sure how you reach the conclusion that you and Belichick are using the same process

I didn't make that claim.

but what was actually "asinine" was your contention that there is no justification for the Patriots using a first or second rounder on a CB, and my response that they would if they had them rated highly was simply common sense. The patriots have been surprising all of us year after year so any contention by anyone that they really know how they are looking at any draft is presumptuous at best.

There's nothing asinine about it, because taking a CB in rounds 1 or 2 would be a waste of draft resources that are needed elsewhere. But thanks for your time. We're done here.