Welcome to PatsFans.com

Who do you think Can Beat Obama?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jan 27, 2012.

?

Who do you think can honestly do the following?

  1. Romney can beat Obama

    28.6%
  2. Gingrich can beat Obama

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Paul can beat Obama

    14.3%
  4. Santorum can beat Obama

    4.8%
  5. None of the above. They've destroyed themselves and one another

    52.4%
  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Looking for an honest answer here....not who you'd vote for....but what you think will happen.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  2. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Who do you think?

    Mrs are we able to pick multiple options, or is it assumed that if one happens, others cant?

    EDIT: Ill just go ahead an answer the question.

    In my humble opinion the only R candidate that has a chance in the general election is Romney.

    1. Paul (whether you agree with the term or not) scares a lot of people on "both" sides of the aisle.
    2. Santorum and my Pet Newt will both suffer from the same situation. While they can placate to and are viewed attractively by the the Conservative base, their appeal is lost (for various reasons) on Independents, which, like almost every other election is where it is won.

    I think it honestly comes down to how much faith Independents will have in the President come November. If he can get some of it back (not from the Left base cuz they arent going to win it for him) then he should fare all right. If Independents en mass "feel" Romney will more closely represent their brand of government better than what he have had for the last 4 years, then it is his to lose.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  3. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,639
    Likes Received:
    159
    Ratings:
    +294 / 6 / -5

    It depends what happens with the economy. It's actually pretty interesting how closely the two correlate; it's no coincidence that Obama's approval is back in positive territory just as consumer confidence and right track/wrong track has risen.

    Assuming the trend continues and we/Europe don't plunge into a recession, I don't see any of the Republican candidates beating Obama. And if we do plunge into a recession, the only one I can really see winning is Romney.

    Regardless, a terrible slate of candidates no matter how you slice it.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Who do you think?

    I didn't set it up for multiple answers....but if you've got some sort of theory or formula (such as, if Santorum drops out now and endorses Gingrich....or If Paul runs as an Independent it'll take votes from Obama) it'd be good to state so here.

    I realize there are all sorts of possibilities, but after watching last night's debate I really think they're actively destroying everyone's chance of winning.

    Paul and Santorum came out looking the best last night, if you ask me. But I don't think either of them has a chance in the general election. They are too far into their own positions and not amendable to the middle at all. Gingrich and Romney are just doing Obama's dirty work for him.

    Romney actually looked presidential last night - but now there's more stuff coming out about his released tax return and the things they "forgot" to release....(like several more Swiss and Cayman Island accounts.) I think, if people ask him to go back even further, it's going to be ugly. And, if I were Obama and Romney was my opponent, I'd sure be asking. Obama's got nothing to lose by doing so, his past returns are already out there and they've been scrutinized to death.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  5. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    I agree Jack. I think most of the candidates (on both sides) the last few cycles have been underwhelming to say the least.

    I seems to me that the only ones we get are the ones we can stuff into one box or the other. People who have middle of the road ideas/stands (two examples for me would be the Clinton's in the Left of Center-Center role, and Jon Huntsman in the Right of Center-Center role) seemingly get lost along the way.

    The more extreme candidates generally seem to be the ones who make it to the end, IMHO, to the detriment of us all. This is America for peets sake, we should have to pick between two awesome people, not the best of two "bad" options, which is how many people vote. Further more, when you have one of the extremes, you are leaving anyone who doesn't subscribe to that brand (whether its the middle of the road people, or the opposite extreme) "out in the cold". We should all be included, listened to and responsible for setting our county's path.

    Just my 3 cents.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  6. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Who do you think?

    I voted none of the above. Reason:

    While I think Romney is the only R who can beat Obama (as I stated in my previous post), currently Romney has a Republican problem.

    The longer My Pet Newt is allowed to remain relevant in this discussion (which I still cant grasp), the worse it is for Romney. Not in a "if you let Newt hang around he will gain momentum" way, but in a My Pet Newt is a snake, dirty politician through and through. He will utilize issues (like the income tax stuff) to paint Romney in a negative light.

    While I dont think Newt will win the nomination (although I could be wrong). I think the longer My Pet Newt stays in it, the more damage he will do to Romney in the eyes of more centrist voters.

    Thus by the time the general election comes along (all things being equal) Obama will face a Romney who is "physically beaten"* already. Obama could make that square off more about Romney than the issues.

    * Similarly to how some people were saying at the beginning of the playoffs that they hoped the Pats would play Baltimore after Balt. had played the Steelers. Having Baltimore after they would be beaten up by the Steelers would make the Pats beating Baltimore easier.
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Who do you think?

    He does, but I think Newt actually has the bigger Republican problem. All you have to do is read Drudge, Ann Coulter, WSJ or any number of right leaning publications.

    Thing is, as long as he stays in it, Romney is forced to resort to Newttactics to compete with him. I read that his campaign has ex-republican congressmen who worked with Newt showing up at Newt rallies and bad mouthing him to his followers.

    I also think that most people are already disgusted with the SuperPacs of both Newt and Romney....so the more either of them rely on lots of nasty ad time and robocalls, the worse each of them ends up looking.

    Yes, I agree. They keep forcing one another into corners - "I'm more right that you are," "I'm tougher on immigration," "I'm going to the moon," etc.. It'll be hard for the victor to wiggle back out of the box he's put himself into.

    Plus, they're telling outright lies about one another....and once the lie is out there and repeated often enough, it becomes as truth to most people.

    I understand that partisan politics are bad business, but there's a discipline which comes with a tightly-knit organization which is sadly lacking in today's Republican party and that might end up making all the difference.

    I suppose much may still depend on who the winner chooses as his running mate - but at this point I don't even trust either Romney or Newt to even have enough sense to chose that wisely, either.
  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Re: Who do you think?

    Every primary has one party engage in a tremendous amount of infighting, only to kiss and make up in summer at the convention. Obama v. Clinton was probably the most contentious primary of the past almost 50 years in terms of going down to the wire, but that certainly didn't stop Obama from winning the general election.
    Sure thing, Mrs. Only the republicans have these sorts of problems. It's all sunshine and roses for the democrats. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  9. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Who do you think?

    Agreed. It was a knock down drag out it seemed between those two.

    For the life of me I still dont understand during a primary that one person can claim the other isnt qualified etc etc etc, then turn around and have them in the admin. Just always found that funny.

    Or like McCain last year bad mouthing Romney during the primary, to turn around and endorse him this year.
  10. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Who do you think?

    They were talking about this situation last night on NBC Nightly News. Makes for good political theater if that is your thing. Id personally rather all the drama be gone from the process and we just hear the stances on the issues. Not this tear down for a year until one remains standing.

    But then it wouldnt be politics right :)
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Who do you think?

    In somewhat of the same vein, I thought it was interesting that after NBC's debate on Monday Newt said that he would not participate in any more debates where the audience was cautioned not to clap or jeer but this morning, after last night's CNN debate, he and his campaign are complaining that Romney's people "loaded the audience," causing unfair, one-sided disruption.

    I wonder what part of "You can't have it both ways," he doesn't understand?

    That being said, I think NBC had the right idea. I don't want to know what the audience thinks of what's being said, I want to hear it and make up my own mind as to what's being said.

    One thing I would like to see....for both parties?

    I'd like to see the moderators or, if it's a question which comes from an audience member, I'd like to see them be able to pin the candidate down - or to prove him wrong, if that's what he is.

    Fer instance, last night a woman in the audience introduced herself, said that she'd lost her job and her health insurance and asked what each of the candidates planned on doing for people like her if and when they were elected and repealed ObamaCare. Not one of them really gave her an answer....They told her what was wrong with the economy, they told her what happened in 1960, they told her how expensive health care was, they told her she wouldn't have to worry about it because "they'd see to it that she had a job," but they didn't say how they'd do that, either.

    As much as they hate Obamacare, as much as any one here hates ObamaCare, the fact is - they've got nothing to replace it with except more of the same ole, "Opps, too bad." There are millions of out-of-work adults out there who are now able to get some sort of health care, millions of parents with children under 26 years old that they can now cover, and millions of people with pre-existing conditions who don't want to get rid of ObamaCare.

    They vote, too.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Re: Who do you think?

    The system is far from perfect but in this case, the devil we know is infinitely better than the devil we don't.
    Whuh huh? Has ObamaCare even been truly implented yet? No it hasn't. So please save the "look at all the good ObamaCare has done!" routine for people stupid enough to believe it.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,620
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +149 / 1 / -9

    Big news!! My co. will be hiring about 300 employees to operate a new manufacturing facility in the deep south. We built it there to keep costs low (non-union) and due to tax reasons.

    But heck, it's 300 more people working!
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,620
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +149 / 1 / -9

    Re: Who do you think?

    Correction: "Adults under 26 years old..."

    No one over 20 years old is a child...never has been and never will be.

    The last thing we need to do is treat 20 year olds as if they're still children.
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,620
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +149 / 1 / -9

    Re: Who do you think?

    I highly doubt anyone will beat Obama at this point.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,840
    Likes Received:
    90
    Ratings:
    +151 / 3 / -19

    Re: Who do you think?

    The devils we do not know are more Romney Tax Returns and the 1,000 page ethics investigation that the serial adulterer should release for all to see.

    What are you hiding Mitt and Newt??? We need to vette you..
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Who do you think?

    Much of it has, yes.

    •Prohibits lifetime and annual benefit spending limits (plan years beginning 9/23/10)

    •Prohibits non‐group plans from canceling coverage (rescissions) (plan years
    beginning 9/23/10)

    •Requires plans to cover, at no charge, most preventive care (plan years beginning
    9/23/10)

    •Allows dependents to stay on parents’ policies through age 26 (plan years
    beginning 9/23/10)

    •Provides limited protections to children with pre‐existing conditions (plan years
    beginning 9/23/10)

    http://mccaul.house.gov/uploads/Healthcare Implementation Timeline.pdf
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,227
    Likes Received:
    225
    Ratings:
    +315 / 7 / -3

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Who do you think?

    Oh, excuse me, I guess that means my 40 year old son is no longer "my child."

    The point is, the person under 26 must be the parent's child.

    No one quits being their parent's child regardless of how old they become.
  19. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +42 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: Who do you think?

    Yeah, My Pet Newt wants his cake and eat it too…real shocker there :)

    I agree I would prefer when a direct question is asked, a direct answer is provided (within reason). Answering questions with vauge answers doesn’t allow potential voters insight into whether you are their guy or not.
    Ahh Obamacare…honestly I think you and I will disagree on that topic but Ill explain my POV for you. Firstly, I don’t think the whole thing is in place yet right? I could be wrong, I know some of the provisions are in place now (the 26 year old provision for one), but I think implementation will complete in 2013/2014 correct?

    Either way my view of it as a whole is this. The pre-Obamacare insurance situation was clearly less than perfect. High costs, lack of transparency, refusing coverage for any number of things etc etc etc. You and I will agree that as it is it wasn’t working for everyone (see a theme with my posts )
    Now having said that my issue with Obamacare is one, the main reason Insurance (previously) wasn’t working was high cost increases for medical attention. Obamacare IMHO doesn’t even address that problem, it just masks it by having the government pay for the uninsured. When a person isn’t paying directly for something, they don’t care what it costs. That may work for some people, but not for me.

    Beyond not addressing the increasing costs associated with medical care, Obamacare will become a huge government program and in what I have seen in my life the government generally doesn’t have programs that A, are efficient or B, cost controlling. When it’s the “government” paying, no one ensures any measure of cost saving (see the big dig for an example). There is just this giant money teat in the sky. Bill the government. I want cost control and efficiency in the US’s insurance industry.

    In closing, I don’t know what the perfect insurance model is. To me, it isn’t the HMO driven system we had, nor is it Obamacare (or beyond that a single payer system). To me the ideal system would be a complete overhaul from the ground up; fees, costs, administration efforts, modernizing the system etc etc etc . It would cost a lot to revamp, but I think it would pay for itself over the length of its existence, given the alternatives. It would prolly end up being a hybrid system between a capitalist-“cartel like” system we had; where the companies set prices to include profit and dictate who will be covered, and Obamacare (and any system “left of that”) where the government is in complete control, setting rates.

    This should be a private and public venture, 50/50. IMHO.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,840
    Likes Received:
    90
    Ratings:
    +151 / 3 / -19

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>