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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by dryheat44, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    America needs more young men like you, "Good Luck"
    :bricks:
     
  2. Ace

    Ace Rookie

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    OK here I am...

    Sex - male
    Age 22 (nearly 23)
    White
    living in Germany born in Fuessen
    now living in Cologne
    personal status - engaged
    Occupation - searching
    Hobbies:
    • Webdesign
    • Football
    • Music
    • Role playing games (forums)
    • Line Dance

    else? ... find it out!
     
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I am who I am
    [​IMG]
     
  4. MosiTisNEM

    MosiTisNEM Banned

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    Everyone knows who I am!:D
     
  5. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Welcome to the forum, MTNEM.
     
  6. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    That is funny.

    Edit: I see Patters banned him, nice.
     
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    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  7. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If he's banned, how come his little light is green? That's weird. Are you sure it was Patters?
     
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Welcome to the political forum Box o Rocks HEHEHEHEHE
     
  9. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You talking to me, to Box, or to MosiTisNEM?
     
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Don't play obtuse POX. :rocker:
     
  11. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Uh huh. No one is obtuse.

    I could tell you again it's not me, but you won't listen--you're convinced of it cause your friend NEM emailed you and told you--even though we know he's a crazy old man...but NEM told you so it must be true, yeah?

    Whatever...just as long as you're enjoying yourself doing the bidding of NEM, that's all that really matters.

    Carry on, by all means!
    :D
     
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  12. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Brothers and Sisters:
    Humanity lives in the chest of us all and, like the heart, it prefers to be on the left side.
    We must find it, we must find ourselves.
    It is not necessary to conquer the world.
    It is sufficient with making it new. Us. Today.
    Democracy!
    Liberty!
    Justice!
    - Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos. Mexico, January of 1996


    Comandante Marcos, you occupied San Cristobal on January 1st, 1994, who are you?

    We are part of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation and we demand the resignation of the federal government and the formation of a transitional government which convenes free and democratic elections in August 1994. We want that the major demands of the peasants of Chiapas be met: food, health, education, autonomy and peace. The indigenous people have always lived in a state of war because war has been waged against them and today the war will be in their favour. Whatever the case, we will have the opportunity to die in battle fighting instead of dying of dysentery, as the indigenous people of Chiapas usually die.

    Do you have relationships with some political organisation of peasants?

    We have no such relationships with any open organisation. Our organisation is exclusively armed and clandestine.

    Were you formed out of nothing? Improvised?

    We have been preparing ourselves in the mountains for ten years; we are not an improvised movement. We have matured, thought, learned and made this decision.

    Do you have racial and ethnic demands?

    The Committees of Directors is made up of indigenous Tzotziles, Tzeltles, Choles, Tojolabales, Mames, and Zoques, all of the major ethnic groups of Chiapas. They all agree, and apart from democracy and representation, they demand respect, respect which white people have never had for them. Above all in San Cristobal the residents, insult and discriminate again them as a daily occurrence. now white people respect the Indians because they see them with guns in their hands.

    How do you think the government will respond?

    We do not worry about the response of the government. We worry about the response of the Mexican people. We want to know what this event will provoke, what will move the national consciousness. We hope something moves, not only in the form of armed struggle, but in all forms of struggle. We hope this will put an end to this disguised dictatorship.

    Don't you have confidence in the PRD as an opposition Party in the next elections?

    We don't distrust the political parties as much as we do the electoral system. The government of Salinas de Gortari is an illegitimate Party, product of fraud, and this illegitimate government can only produce illegitimate elections. We want a transitional government and that the government hold new elections - but with a capacity that is genuinely egalitarian, offering the same opportunities to all political parties. In Chiapas, 15,000 Indians per year die of curable diseases. It is a statistic of the same magnitude that the war produced in El Salvador. If a peasant with cholera comes to a rural hospital, they will throw him out so that no one will say there is cholera in Chiapas. In this movement, the Indians who form part of the Zapatista Army want to first dialogue with their own people. They are the real representatives.

    Excuse me, but you are not an Indian.

    You must understand our movement is not Chiapaneco. it is national. There are people like me, others who come from other states, and Chiapanecos who fight in other states. We are Mexicans, that unifies us, as well as the demand for liberty and democracy. We want to elect genuine representatives.

    But now are you not afraid of heavy repression?

    For the Indians, repressions exist for the past 500 years. Maybe you think of repression in terms of the typical South American government. But for the Indians, this kind of repression is their daily bread. Ask those who live in the surrounding communities of San Cristobal.

    What development would you consider a movement?

    We would like others in the country to join this movement.

    An armed movement?

    No, we make a broad appeal which we direct towards those who are active in civil, legal, and open popular movements.

    Why did you choose January 1st to attack San Cristobal?

    It was the Committee of Directors which decided. It is clear the date is related to NAFTA, which for the Indians is a death sentence. Once it goes into effect, it means an international massacre.

    What do you believe the international response will be? Are you not afraid the United States will intervene like it has in other parts of Latin America?


    The U.S. used to have the Soviet Union as a pretext, they were afraid of Soviet infiltration in our countries. But what can they make of a movement which claims social justice? They cannot continue to think we are being manipulated from the outside, or that we are financed by Moscow gold, since Moscow no longer exists. The people in the U.S. should be aware that we struggle for those things that others struggle for. Did not the people of Germany and Italy rebel against a dictatorship? Does the rebellion of the Mexicans not have the same value? The people in the U.S. have a great deal to do with the reality which you can observe here, with the conditions of misery of the Indians and the great hunger for justice. In Mexico, the entire social system is based upon the injustice in its relations with the Indians. The worst thing that can happen to a human being is to be Indian, with all its burden of humiliation, hunger and misery.

    This is a subversive movement. Our objective is the solution of the principal problems of our country which necessarily intersect with problems of liberty and democracy. This is why we think that the government of Salinas de Gortari is an illegitimate government which can only convene illegitimate elections. The solution is a call to all citizens and to the House of Deputies and Senators and to comply with their patriotic duty and remove Salinas de Gortari and all his Cabinet and to form a transitional government. And the transitional government should call elections, with equal opportunity for all political parties.

    Based on that, the compañeros say other demands can be negotiated: bread, housing, health, education, land, justice, many problems which within the context of indigenous people, arc very serious. But the demands for liberty and democracy are being made as call to all the Mexican Republic, to all the social sectors to participate, not with guns, but with the means which they have.

    We have been isolated all these years, while the rest of the world rebelled against dictatorships or apparent dictatorships and this was viewed with logic. In this country, however, a series of dictatorial measures were being adopted and no one said anything. We believe there is an international consensus that only the Mexicans were missing, who have suffered under an absolute dictatorship by the Party and now by one person, who is Carlos Salinas de Gortari, now through Luis Donaldo Colosio. I think that at the international level they will see that a movement with demands like these is logical.

    There is not in the movement of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation an ideology perfectly defined, in the sense of being Communist or Marxist-Leninist. There is a common point of connection with the great national problems, which coincide always, for one or the other sector, in a lack of liberty and democracy.

    In this case, this sector has used up any other method of struggle such as the legal struggle, the popular struggle, the economic projects, the struggle for Sedesol, and it ends following the only method which remains, the armed struggle. But we are open to other tendencies and to other forms of struggle, in the enthusiasm to generate a genuine national and revolutionary movement which reconciles these two fundamental demands, liberty and democracy. On these grounds a movement can be formed which will create a genuine solution to the economic and social problems of each sector, whether indigenous or peasant, worker, teachers, intellectual, small business owners, of the small and medium-sized industry.

    The repression on the indigenous population has been present for many years. The indigenous people of Chiapas suffer 15,000 deaths per year, that no one mourns. The great shame is that they die of curable diseases and this is denied by the Department of Health.

    We expect a favourable reaction from Mexican society towards the reasons which give birth to this movement because they are just. You can question the method of struggle, but never its causes.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2008
  13. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    I am against the Hegelian Dialectic.

    I refuse to get caught up in the dog chasing it's own tail.

    There are much more important issues at hand.

    The left and the right are basically the same thing.
     
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  14. patzchick

    patzchick Rookie

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    Female
    age: Old enough
    Race: American (you con not be something and American your either American or your not)
    Occupation: College student and DiHard Pats Fan
    Registered Independent

    Personally I do not think either Obama or McCain would be good for this country. All my international friends are saying that the world wants Obama to win. That scares the hell out of me! The world views Obama as weak and weak in the Oval office is not good...IMHO. I would rather see McCain if the world is going to respect his power more than Obama's.
     
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  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you think the sword is mightier than the pen, you have a point.

    The world views Obama as sane, not weak. A friend of mine from Portugal once said that Europeans consider the United States naive, believing that it can use its superpower might to change the world. The world is not changed by militaries, it's changed by negotiations and treaties. When militaries enter the fray, it sets the world back at least a generation. Also, no one is respecting the tough approach of Bush. We've lost 4000 Americans and killed tens of thousands of civilians, and helped unify and strengthen those who hate America.

    At any rate, welcome to forum. Hope you participate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2008
  16. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    That statement is naive. Negotiations presume there is a middle ground. Terrorists don't have anything to offer in the negotiation. They want one thing and are unwilling to waiver. And that is Americans dead. And if Russia, France, Germany are anyone's ideal then the solution is simple move there and live in 50% unemployment, socialized medicine utopia. Talk about naive. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Agreed. And Obama's socialism is not going to help this country at all. Especially with wide open boarders.

    _________
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you have a naive understanding of diplomacy. You don't negotiate with terrorists, but you negotiate with governments. Terrorists can only exist because governments are too weak to do something about them. By working with those governments to strengthen their institutions, they can be in a better position to address the problems that breeds terrorism.

    As far as standard of living, socialist countries like Sweden and Norway are ranked higher than the US, and in fact some survey ranks Germany higher, and socialist countries like Spain have a much higher home ownership rate.
     
  19. Born_a_Patriot

    Born_a_Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    American Male
    Age: 19

    Occupation: 1st year in Stanford University

    Grew up in: Bay Area

    Party: Independent

    Abortion: I understand the idea behind Pro-Choice, but think it is extremely abused.

    Support equal rights for gays, but I am against gay marriage.

    Pro-Capital Punishment for Violent Criminals

    Against legalization of all drugs

    O.K. with higher taxes provided they go to the public good.

    Anti-War in Iraq. We should have concentrated in Afghanistan.

    Anti-Patriot Act as it stands - Refuse to give up civil liberties in the name of security.

    Pro-Gun control for semi-automatic and automatic weapons.

    Pro-God - Anti-Religion I believe in God with all my heart. I think religion was created by man to control man.

    Anti-Islam. I hold no ill will to the people who choose to believe in it, other than Muslim Fundamentalists. I do think it is the worst Religion in the world and the greatest threat to humanity.

    People I admire who I know My Dad who is serving in Iraq. My Mom who has always helped me keep my focus in school. My Uncle who started this PatsFans account and let me take it over when he decided to get more involved in community service.

    People I admire who I didn’t know Ronald Reagan, Martin Luther King.

    Anti George Wrong Bush...worst president ever

    America is the greatest Nation in the World.
     
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    We are who we are

    because

    It is what it is

    because

    we post what we post

    because

    we do what we do

    because

    we think what we think

    even

    when we are not thinking ... :bricks:
     

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