White men CAN jump!

[patchick]

Yet another long thread on safeties with no love for Josh Gattis! Somebody, tell me what I'm missing here...isn't Gattis a Patriots kind of player?

 

[Remix 6]

i've mentioned him..

 

[VJCPatriot]

i actually think this years class is better than last year overall

if Meriweather/Landry came out last year they were 1st rounders easily..Nelson probably not..only started 1 yr

i think for us:

Landry
Meriweather
Griffin
Marvin White
Gattis
Weddle are best fits

all smart, hard working players and leaders aswell as versatile. Nelson is a guy im not really sold on however

Are you talking about Marvin White of TCU?
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=360&p=8&c=1&nid=2705458

Nothing jumps out at me that would suggest he is hands down a better prospect than Wendling. And the guy still needs to tack on 10 lbs to be a safety at the NFL level.

What did you have against Wendling anyways?

 

[Remix 6]

Are you talking about Marvin White of TCU?
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=360&p=8&c=1&nid=2705458

Nothing jumps out at me that would suggest he is hands down a better prospect than Wendling. And the guy still needs to tack on 10 lbs to be a safety at the NFL level.

What did you have against Wendling anyways?

im saying wendling is a suspect in coverage. NEXT

 

[sebman2112]

Touche on the height cousin,
Good point. But the weight and strength. Bob Sanders is like 210. Merriweather and Nelson are about 188-190 lbs.

they aren't 188-190lbs. Meriweather's listed 5'10.5"(combine), and 195(combine)-200lbs. Nelson's 5'11.3", and weighs 198lbs(Combine). Both Reggie, and Brandon have the frame to carry an additional 10 pounds. Again though, they weigh more than you claim.

 

[sebman2112]

Yet another long thread on safeties with no love for Josh Gattis! Somebody, tell me what I'm missing here...isn't Gattis a Patriots kind of player?

I mentioned him in my 7 round mock draft.
I would have taken him in the third instead of Griffin at 28, but a lot of people think he goes early third, and I didn't want to trade up for him.

He was mentioned in some other threads, as well. If you like him so much make a thread about him, or bump an old one. I could post the links to my threads on ESPN about him, but I would have to sort through page after page, so I won't bother.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Yet another long thread on safeties with no love for Josh Gattis! Somebody, tell me what I'm missing here...isn't Gattis a Patriots kind of player?

Shame on you! A FS who isn't a first round prospect, why demean the forum talking about Patriots' types at value when you can overpay for fashionable flash?

 

[NEPatriot]

Who says he's not on the Pats radar? He's been on mine for awhile. I prefer Wendling over guys like Merriweather, Griffen and Nelson.

I'm right there with you. If he's there in the 3rd, I want him.

 

[patchick]

Shame on you! A FS who isn't a first round prospect, why demean the forum talking about Patriots' types at value when you can overpay for fashionable flash?

Seriously though, it makes sense that Gattis doesn't come up in the first-round discussions. But in a thread like this, where people are arguing about a John Wendling vis a vis not only LandryNelsonGriffinMeriweather but also Piscelleti, Rouse and White, he's only been mentioned in passing.

One reason this safety class is so impressive to me is that a lot of the prospects have the mental makeup you look for in the leader of your secondary. That's been mentioned several times as an argument for Wendling, but Gattis, Weddle, Piscitelli, even a Tanard Jackson are also very smart players with strong leadership skills. And later in the draft you have Herring, etc. I'm pushing Gattis in particular because he seems like a mini-Rodney to me, combining intelligence with an aggressive intensity.

Personally, I wouldn't 2 of them.

 

[DaBruinz]

1. I watch college ball
2. Theres also mutli sources saying he is a suspect in coverage

i never said a rookie has to start right away..i said Wendling will be nothing as a starter in NFL

Piscelleti or Rouse would be much better

So you watch college ball. Would you like a gold star?

Please provide these sources that claim he is suspect in coverage. I have looked at the ESPN NFL Draft Magazine (Scouts.com), Athlon Sports Draft Magazine (Ourlads.com), NFLDraftScout.com, Condraft.com and NFLDraftCountdown.com and they don't say that he is suspect in coverage. The only one that makes any remarks that could even be remotely construed as his coverage skills being suspect is NFLDraftCountdown.com when they say he doesn't always look comfortable in coverage.

Now, why do you say Rouse is better? Its amazing that you ding Wendling for his coverage skills, but Rouse's coverage skills is what mutliple sources say are his biggest issues, besides playing out of control. Also, they say that Rouse's biggest weakness is ZONE COVERAGE. Zone coverage is the type of coverage that the Pats use the MOST.

 

[DaBruinz]

im saying wendling is a suspect in coverage. NEXT

Yes, you are the only person saying he's suspect. And you claim to have multiple sources that also do so, yet, I hit 3 of the biggest ones out there and they don't mention anything. In fact, they say that he is better in coverage.

Of course, You also don't bother with intangibles. Something that he is noted as having over guys like Rouse.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not bashing what he brings to the table. There are just 5 safeties in the draft I'd take over him.

If he's available in the 3rd, I'd take him. Leadership is a great thing, but in the first round pick, I want more than leadership.

From NFLDraftCountdown:

Strengths:
Excellent size and tremendous bulk...Has outstanding timed speed considering his frame...Physical and aggressive...A playmaker with good leaping ability and body control...Solid tackler and does a superb job versus the run
...A hard worker and leader with elite intangibles...Very mart...Versatile...Has a good deal of upside.

Weaknesses:
Might not be quite as fluid, smooth or agile as his workout numbers would lead you to believe...He lacks great instincts...Needs some work on his technique and fundamentals...Does not always look real comfortable in coverage...Takes some false steps and poor angles at times...The level of competition may be a concern.

Notes:
Has experience at both free and strong safety and could project to either in the pros...Has everything you look for physically but doesn't always play up to those measurables...Destined to be a workout warrior due to his phenomenal triangle numbers...Underrated prospect who seems to be the total package and the vast majority of his flaws are correctable...Could end up being a big steal for someone

Please show me where anyone talking about Wendling as a first round pick.

 

[dryheat44]

Zone coverage is the type of coverage that the Pats use the MOST.

What? The Patriots are generally a man-to-man team. I mean, some games they show heavy doses of cover 3, but it's far more likely to see them in man with a safety helping out on the other team's top threat. That's why they're so selective in drafting cornerbacks, and pay much more attention to game film than they do to their combine numbers.

 

[DaBruinz]

Cousin, Absolutely!
I have had this guy as a perfect Pats pick as well. This years draft is the worse in years. Merriweather and Nelson were round threes' last year. Wendling will cost less than a Merriweather or Nelson, he's bigger, smarter and he's faster and I am disappointed to see our safeties like Sanders, (why does everyone think he's so good or getting better?When was this? Peyton killed him. He's strictly a backup IMO) trying to cover any tight end. He's like 5'10" and a joke covering Gates or Crumpler.Wilson? Please......he's another 5'10" wonder at 185lbs (yes not 195lb-thats a lie and you know it), who has been going down hill for years when he is not busy getting hurt. I would like to keep Geno but as a CB where he belongs. Our most successful safeties over the last ten years have been guys like Milloy before age crept up on him and like Rodney at 6'1" and 215.
If they must waste a first round draft choice on a safety, I think a Griffin is the best choice because he is a sound ST player (7 blocked kicks), he's not a thug and he's not mentally challenged like Nelson. Both Merriweather and Nelson are Wilsons size. If we draft them what are we thinking!!!!?
DW Toys

"COUSIN" -
Lets get a couple things straight. That was not SANDERS getting beat by Peyton Manning. That was Eric Alexander who was getting beat. Alexander was in man coverage with help over the top. Some of it was Hawkins. Some of it was Sanders. The issue, though, was with Alexander. Because he couldn't stay with their TEs.

I don't know why Chad Scott wasn't on the field because he is who should have been covering those TEs. He may have been injured or something.

Now, I suggest you do more homework as others have pointed out. Bob Sanders is one of the better safeties in the league. And that was proven by the night and day difference of the Colts run defense.

 

[sebman2112]

What? The Patriots are generally a man-to-man team. I mean, some games they show heavy doses of cover 3, but it's far more likely to see them in man with a safety helping out on the other team's top threat. That's why they're so selective in drafting cornerbacks, and pay much more attention to game film than they do to their combine numbers.

Yeah, they like man-to-man coverage, and they imploy cover 3, and sometimes cover 2. I think if Hobbs hadn't been wearing the cast almost all season they would have played more man defense, but he couldn't really jam, or be that physical at the line, while wearing a cast. One thing they have been missing is a big physical man CB, who can just shut someone down, but a lot of teams are missing that. A lot of the bigger CB's coming out lately haven't been as good technically, and have been mostly athletes, and not true CB's. I think this is why NE seems to be drafting a lot of smaller, more technically sound DB's.

 

[DaBruinz]

What? The Patriots are generally a man-to-man team. I mean, some games they show heavy doses of cover 3, but it's far more likely to see them in man with a safety helping out on the other team's top threat. That's why they're so selective in drafting cornerbacks, and pay much more attention to game film than they do to their combine numbers.

Dryheat -
The Pats aren't generally man-to-man. Now, they aren't Cover2 zone either. The Pats play their own variation, but they are primarly a zone team. Its how they beat Peyton Manning so many times, when they did beat the Colts.

 

[dryheat44]

Dryheat -
The Pats aren't generally man-to-man. Now, they aren't Cover2 zone either. The Pats play their own variation, but they are primarly a zone team. Its how they beat Peyton Manning so many times, when they did beat the Colts.

Well, I guess we have different opinions. I thought the key to beating the Colts all those years was to bring disguised pressure and trust that Ty Law and Ty Poole/Asante Samuel/Blue Gay would be able to handle the WRs one-on-one for long enough so the rush could get there and force Manning into mistakes.

No big deal. We both understand that they mix up their coverages. I just think they play man more than just about any other team out there.

 

[sebman2112]

Well, I guess we have different opinions. I thought the key to beating the Colts all those years was to bring disguised pressure and trust that Ty Law and Ty Poole/Asante Samuel/Blue Gay would be able to handle the WRs one-on-one for long enough so the rush could get there and force Manning into mistakes.

No big deal. We both understand that they mix up their coverages. I just think they play man more than just about any other team out there.

They used man a lot against the Colts when Ty was here, so you're not remembering wrong.

 

[DW Toys]

i actually think this years class is better than last year overall

if Meriweather/Landry came out last year they were 1st rounders easily..Nelson probably not..only started 1 yr

i think for us:

Landry
Meriweather
Griffin
Marvin White
Gattis
Weddle are best fits

all smart, hard working players and leaders aswell as versatile. Nelson is a guy im not really sold on however

Cousin we agree to disagree on this years class. First few rounds o.k., but after that.....terrible. Not just this guys opinion. The Kippers and the big guys agree.
I like the White choice. He's lying in the weeds. How about this Melvin Bullitt. Team leader smart, big, fast. Plays up to big games. Love Weddle too. Does many things well. He's fast and bigger that Nelson and Merriweather. Gattis works. Led the WF DB's.
The safety who intrigues me is this kid Stone from Maine. Fast, big mean streak and from a small school (#37?). Maybe 4th or 5th round. Check him out.
Question for you Remix. Whereas the LB class is awful and I am sure you agree with that assessment after Willis and Beason and Poz, would you opt for a 28 year old Hartwell who was close to All Pro at Balt and has been hurt but now recovered. WEEI says the Pats have interest, and move some choices up to get Landry?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Seriously though, it makes sense that Gattis doesn't come up in the first-round discussions. But in a thread like this, where people are arguing about a John Wendling vis a vis not only LandryNelsonGriffinMeriweather but also Piscelleti, Rouse and White, he's only been mentioned in passing.

One reason this safety class is so impressive to me is that a lot of the prospects have the mental makeup you look for in the leader of your secondary. That's been mentioned several times as an argument for Wendling, but Gattis, Weddle, Piscitelli, even a Tanard Jackson are also very smart players with strong leadership skills. And later in the draft you have Herring, etc. I'm pushing Gattis in particular because he seems like a mini-Rodney to me, combining intelligence with an aggressive intensity.

Personally, I wouldn't 2 of them.

Cousin, Right on with Kim Herring. Under the radar. Pats type. Good size and speed.
DW Toys