White, Chandler, Dobson, et. al.

[strngplyr]

Tall and Athletic are vastly different things, OP.

Being 6'8 doesn't make you good at anything, except being taller than the average population.

Edit: I'm severely guilty of overrating Chandler, I watched him play against us in Bills games and thought we were getting a half decent TE, instead we got a guy whose numbers existed because BB probably let them exist, his two games against us each year probably accounted for half of his 16 game season totals each year and only because we wanted them to.

 

[venecol]

We need both White and Chandler and in fact they both contributed in the last 2 games. White had 2 TD last week and Chandler 1 TD last night. Chandler was also clutch on the game tying FG.

White really wasn't used the way I expected last night, thought there would be more screen plays or throws behind the LOS to him, instead they went to Lafell. There weren't many short passes either but a bunch of ineffective long throws. The whole game plan was weird but who am I to question JM.

Finally, these guys haven't had many plays with TB. It takes a while to develop the chemistry needed to get good with his precision (dropped passes aside). Case in point Lafell last year. We are going to need these guys and as long as they get better for the playoffs I'm all in on them since they're all we have.

 

[strngplyr]

Chandler was overrated coming in by fans and perhaps the team. I guess I don't really get the hate toward white, I mean I'd like to see the guy show more but he's not a bum just because he hasn't played as well as Lewis had been. The Dobson hate on here is dumb, if you want to say he hasn't been able to stay healthy you can but people on here wanted to cut him for harper. He played well when he was actually on the field

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White is Vereen at BEST, and he isn't even close to that right now, breaking a tackle is not a term that has EVER been muttered after a snap White has played unless you were discussing what he didn't do.

It's something he's not capable of.

He deserves much of the hate. he can look electric if noone has their hands on him, he CAN make a guy miss, but will he? The answer is the same as "will Aaron Dobson be on the injury report?".

He may not have had many chances against real NFL talent but in the chances he has had ....well, give me Branden Bolden, and I cannot count the number of times I've said "Bolden should never see another snap on offense in his lifetime."

 

[thecore762]

I've been saying it all year long about what a horrible pickup Chandler was! Wright was making plays and was able to run good routes and most importantly he was able to get open and score TD's...
I think Wright could have taken some of the pressure off Gronk, he was going to be a threat like Hernandez...

For the other two I have no arguments.

 

[supafly]

While I always feared that we were going a bit overboard with the Chandler hype, I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet.

I'm going with the theory proposed by @JMC00 which states that he'll continue to produce with more attempts. It's simple enough and it makes a lot of sense. If you look at Chandler's stats in his past 3 years (2012-2014), he was receiving between 70 and 81 targets per season, all three seasons. Coming into last week's game in week #12, we had only targeted him a total of 23 times....

In other words, I think it's safe to say that he'd have put up similar numbers had there been enough balls to go around. Last week's 11 targets were obviously an anomaly as he's seen 3 targets or less in 9/11 games this year. While he's certainly underwhelming thus far, I do think he can do more than we've seen and at least be a slight improvement over Tim Wright in the blocking area. The red zone TDs should be about the same, so let's not act as if he's totally useless. He's just not what we expected, and the dropped balls aren't helping his cause any.

 

[venecol]

While I always feared that we were going a bit overboard with the Chandler hype, I'm not ready to give up on him quite yet.

I'm going with the theory proposed by @JMC00 which states that he'll continue to produce with more attempts. It's simple enough and it makes a lot of sense. If you look at Chandler's stats in his past 3 years (2012-2014), he was receiving between 70 and 81 targets per season, all three seasons. Coming into last week's game in week #12, we had only targeted him a total of 23 times....

In other words, I think it's safe to say that he'd have put up similar numbers had there been enough balls to go around. Last week's 11 targets were obviously an anomaly as he's seen 3 targets or less in 9/11 games this year. While he's certainly underwhelming thus far, I do think he can do more than we've seen and at least be a slight improvement over Tim Wright in the blocking area. The red zone TDs should be about the same, so let's not act as if he's totally useless. He's just not what we expected, and the dropped balls aren't helping his cause any.

That's right, these guys were basically back up players until recently with the injuries. Not enough attempts to them. They will get better. They have to. I'm excited about Keshawn Martin, looks like he may have potential. LaFell had a deep ball thrown to him that he should have caught. Would have put us inside the RZ. Conditions were pretty brutal last night, not an excuse but.

 

[supafly]

Wright was making plays and was able to run good routes and most importantly he was able to get open and score TD's...
I think Wright could have taken some of the pressure off Gronk, he was going to be a threat like Hernandez...

The thing about Wright though, is that he's been bounced around and even attempted to switch positions for a reason. He absolutely sucks at blocking. I mean downright sucks. Look at Tampa Bay last season before they traded him to us. They were trying to switch him to WR (something I thought we may do, but he sucks so badly at blocking they wouldn't even consider him for a WR position here) and he still couldn't cut it.

This year he's on his 3rd team in 3 years with DET, and he has a grand total of 8 receptions for 68 yards. He may be on his way out of the NFL altogether. Chandler should snag another TD or two before the end of the season, especially in Gronk's absence, and prove to be just as efficient a red zone threat as Wright ever was here.

 

[supafly]

That's right, these guys were basically back up players until recently with the injuries. Not enough attempts to them. They will get better. They have to. I'm excited about Keshawn Martin, looks like he may have potential. LaFell had a deep ball thrown to him that he should have caught. Would have put us inside the RZ. Conditions were pretty brutal last night, not an excuse but.

I bet you're talking about the one in the second half where two defenders basically went in the complete opposite direction of where the ball was, and all LaFell had to do was pretty much field a punt for a long bomb gain. I'd have to guess that the conditions played a major part in that one, like you said. After all, 3 players misjudged it terribly. That was frustrating as hell, though.

 

[venecol]

I bet you're talking about the one in the second half where two defenders basically went in the complete opposite direction of where the ball was, and all LaFell had to do was pretty much field a punt for a long bomb gain. I'd have to guess that the conditions played a major part in that one, like you said. After all, 3 players misjudged it terribly. That was frustrating as hell, though.

Yes that's the one. He was pissed about it, knew he should have caught it. Damn that would have been a great play but alas it wasn't meant to be.

What struck me as odd was the play calling. I guess JM figured Denver was going to take away the short route lanes and stuff the runs and screens. I don't recall seeing so many long passes all year. It wasn't effective. Then when we get a nice long completion to KM it gets called back over a BS hold.

 

[supafly]

Yes that's the one. He was pissed about it, knew he should have caught it. Damn that would have been a great play but alas it wasn't meant to be.

What struck me as odd was the play calling. I guess JM figured Denver was going to take away the short route lanes and stuff the runs and screens. I don't recall seeing so many long passes all year. It wasn't effective. Then when we get a nice long completion to KM it gets called back over a BS hold.

I know some may not agree, but I have to wonder if those long pass attempts may have been in desperation due to our lack of weapons and the field conditions, etc. Something to ponder. I agree that it seems odd.

 

[Marinlik]

Chandler is pretty much what he's always been. He was always slow, and had doubtful hands. But when I wrote about him when we signed him I noticed that people expected something from him that he never was, except slightly against the Pats.


Here's the article I wrote about him. With video of plays from his time in Buffalo. The plays show the same problems that he has now, he's slow and has a drop problem.
Free agent spotlight - Scott Chandler

 

[luuked]

I honestly don't understand why people are surprised/disappointed by Chandler. If he would consistently catch difficult throws he would still be with Buffalo on a big contract because TEs with his frame _and_ good catching ability are rare. Quite honestly he really only dropped 4-5 easy balls this season, most others were contested 50/50 catches.

The biggest positive that comes with all those injuries is that a) our depth players will get reps running higher percentage routes that are usually reserved for Jules, Gronk & co. and b) McD and the coaching staff is now forced to come up with some plays/schemes that are designed around the strengths of those second (third?) string players.

Both will be very, very valuable down the road in the playoffs.

 

[luuked]

I know some may not agree, but I have to wonder if those long pass attempts may have been in desperation due to our lack of weapons and the field conditions, etc. Something to ponder. I agree that it seems odd.

I have not rewatched the game but with most of our "quick" receiving options out I assume that Denver tried to take away the short passing game leaving some holes in the intermediate/deep options which we tried to exploit. But, again, this is just a feeling that I had during the game.

 

[RayClay]

Oh, for gawd's sake. Guys are injured other guys are rusty, or unconfident and they played a pretty good defense.

The key words in the OP are "giving up."

You never give up.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Chandler is pretty much what he's always been. He was always slow, and had doubtful hands. But when I wrote about him when we signed him I noticed that people expected something from him that he never was, except slightly against the Pats.


Here's the article I wrote about him. With video of plays from his time in Buffalo. The plays show the same problems that he has now, he's slow and has a drop problem.
Free agent spotlight - Scott Chandler

Nice write-up!

He's a decent backup. People assumed that Patriot Pixie Dust would make his hands better. Wrong.

 

[Marinlik]

The thing about Wright though, is that he's been bounced around and even attempted to switch positions for a reason. He absolutely sucks at blocking. I mean downright sucks. Look at Tampa Bay last season before they traded him to us. They were trying to switch him to WR (something I thought we may do, but he sucks so badly at blocking they wouldn't even consider him for a WR position here) and he still couldn't cut it.

This year he's on his 3rd team in 3 years with DET, and he has a grand total of 8 receptions for 68 yards. He may be on his way out of the NFL altogether. Chandler should snag another TD or two before the end of the season, especially in Gronk's absence, and prove to be just as efficient a red zone threat as Wright ever was here.

I don't think that we didn't consider him as a WR because of blocking. I think we didn't do it because while he's slightly more athletic than your average TE, he's much less athletic than your average WR. Because he can't block well as a TE the defense can basically treat him as a WR when he's in, even when lined up as a TE. And a CB probably doesn't have any big problems defending him.

 

[DarrylS]

I know some may not agree, but I have to wonder if those long pass attempts may have been in desperation due to our lack of weapons and the field conditions, etc. Something to ponder. I agree that it seems odd.

It was an effort that failed miserably, clearly McDaniels should have realized after the second attempt he was not quick enough or would fight for the ball. They continued to waste downs on that play.. it was not snowy, cold night play.

White has been slow to develop in the NFL, and it is difficult to evaluate RB's entering the draft.. otoh Dion Lewis struggled for the first few years when he came into the NFL and then the Pats Pixie Dust took over..

Lewis could also be suffering from our mix and match O line.. even Blount could not do much last Sun night..

Dobson may have donned the uniform for the last time, too many injuries and his roster spot needs to be planned for..

 

[PatsBoy12]

Let me save you the misery, bud. It's not something that's going to put you in a good mood.

I hear you, Fly, except I'm not as angry as some of the rest of us. It was one regular season game. A loss was bound to happen to a team as injury-depleted as this one. The only losses I never go back and watch are the three SB losses (since I've been a fan). I can watch regular season losses without as much emotion.

 

[EMpats]

I still don't understand why they gave up on Tim Wright. Obviously there could have been behind the scenes issues but he looked like a long, smooth natural receiver who caught the ball away from his body, and chandler isn't much better of a blocker than him anyway.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Tall and Athletic are vastly different things, OP.

Being 6'8 doesn't make you good at anything, except being taller than the average population.

Edit: I'm severely guilty of overrating Chandler, I watched him play against us in Bills games and thought we were getting a half decent TE, instead we got a guy whose numbers existed because BB probably let them exist, his two games against us each year probably accounted for half of his 16 game season totals each year and only because we wanted them to.

Oh, trust me when I say that point is not lost on me. I agree, in fact. But how athletic do you really have to be to snag a pass over someone who is like 7" to a whole foot shorter than you? That's what I guess I'm talking about more than anything. I don't expect him to win every battle or be Gronk or anything ridiculous like that. Even the Gronk doesn't win every 50/50 ball. But man, Chandler has not even been average to this point. Even his biggest apologist has to see that. So again, I do agree with our point, but only to a point. You don't have to be the world's greatest athlete to simply do more than Chandler has done.

And I was also guilty of the same thing as far as overrating him based on his performances against NE. Honestly, the games against NE were the only times I watched Buffalo, so I thought he was doing that to everyone. LOL