White, Chandler, Dobson, et. al.

[PatsBoy12]

I have generally always tried to stay positive no matter what, especially after losses when we have a tendency to take a 'sky is falling' approach, but this one may be just slightly negative.

Can we finally throw in the towel on these guys and say they are what they are? There have been many calling for all three to step up at various points this season. We've talked about how all three would finally have ample opportunity to show what they can do and, more importantly, help to keep this team in its winning ways. We were even talking about White and Dobson earlier than Chandler because their counterparts (if you will) went down much earlier in the season. They also happen to have been in the system a lot longer than Chandler. What's up?!

To this point, White has been his usual uninspiring self. There really is just nothing to his game that's special. It's not even about being Dion so much as it's about just making some damn plays out there. Dobson is where he usually is and that's on IR. He didn't look really good at any point this season, despite the many positive reports coming out of training camp and before, of course, another injury. Chandler is no real upgrade over Wright. He blocks a bit better, but Wright caught all but about two targeted throws all season (IIRC) and he just looked better out there. I understand Chandler's physical limitations may be things that he cannot immediately do anything about, but the catching is something else. He gets very little separation in man, sporadically catches in zone and it is becoming pretty apparent that he was only good against NE. I think all three are simply what they are and it's not out of bounds to say that we can put the seemingly overblown expectations to bed on all three, or at least decrease them a whole lot. Discuss, fam. Please tell me why I should continue to hold on with the two that are still playing at least!

 

[PatsBoy12]

By the way, I kind of purposely left Harper out. He made a mistake we've seen veterans make. He is a practice squad guy playing in his second NFL game and having to make a play in a game that had a playoff atmosphere. He won't get many passes from me, but I'm going to give him one for last night. I COMPLETELY agree with anyone who is angry because that play was HUGE and swung the momentum. But it was still a play that happens in games to better players. If maybe one or two of those calls does not happen (or happens, if we're talking about the no-calls), then the outcome of that game is still likely different even with the muff. It is what it is.

 

[VrabelJr]

How do you throw in the towel on 40-50% of Brady's currently healthy receiving targets? We never even tried to run White, or anyone for that matter, aside from that sad drive at the end of the first half.

Chandler caught a TD and did a couple decent things. These guys are normally backups for a reason.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think there is hope for Scott Chandler yet he was not used correctly last night on the outsides instead of inside the numbers??? Chandler is no Gronk that said James White are Discount Double Catch are dead to me.

 

[Angelpats]

Chandler needs to be open and have no one on him to make a catch and it's still a 50/50 probability he catches it. He had his opportunities last night. He made a wide open td catch but those sideline throws he needs to fight for them. If he went after them, just go attack the ball, there is a chance we get at least one dpi because on a few of them the defender was in front of him but slowed down because must be afraid he'd hurt their feeling if bumped into them. I hope Gronk rest next game and we get to throw chandler into the fire pit. He will be forced to step up his game and it will help us in the long run.

 

[PatsBoy12]

How do you throw in the towel on 40-50% of Brady's currently healthy receiving targets? We never even tried to run White, or anyone for that matter, aside from that sad drive at the end of the first half.

Chandler caught a TD and did a couple decent things. These guys are normally backups for a reason.

I was saying throw in the towel on the expectations, which I specifically state (without editing) in the original post, not actually on the players. And that makes sense, though I'm probably wording it weird. Chandler did catch a TD, but does that play alone negate some of the negative plays or plays that he easily should be making given his size but is not (for whatever reason)? The Pats did try to use White, but go back and watch how many times he was on the field and not even talked about. There's a difference if you tell me he can't be Dion Lewis vs. he just isn't producing anything really. He had a good game against a Buffalo team that got gashed because they were moving so many pieces around on D.

But this is why I started the thread after all. Please don't act like what I presented it totally without grounds or is not at least valid to some degree, though. That wouldn't be fair, bro, considering there have been plenty of times when any one of all three could have or should have made a play and didn't, when they're the same plays their counterparts have made with regularity. Back ups or not, they're still NFL players that are being expected to make NFL plays. That doesn't change just because you're coming in off the bench.

 

[patriot1136]

I'm disappointed with Chandler. A dude that big should be able to catch more passes than he does, especially over smaller guys. I agree though that he was not used properly. He is no outside receiver. I did like Tim Wright, he would have been more useful last night especially.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I'm disappointed with Chandler. A dude that big should be able to catch more passes than he does, especially over smaller guys. I agree though that he was not used properly. He is no outside receiver. I did like Tim Wright, he would have been more useful last night especially.

But that's what I'm talking about. Why isn't he better on the outside? He's like 6'8"! WTF?! Brady should just be able to throw it somewhere in the atmosphere and have Chandler go up and get it! But he can't. Why? I don't understand. He doesn't even really have to jump either.

 

[Froob]

Chandler still came through big on that drive to tie it.

 

[Todd Bradley]

By the way, I kind of purposely left Harper out. He made a mistake we've seen veterans make. He is a practice squad guy playing in his second NFL game and having to make a play in a game that had a playoff atmosphere. He won't get many passes from me, but I'm going to give him one for last night. I COMPLETELY agree with anyone who is angry because that play was HUGE and swung the momentum. But it was still a play that happens in games to better players. If maybe one or two of those calls does not happen (or happens, if we're talking about the no-calls), then the outcome of that game is still likely different even with the muff. It is what it is.

Yeah, I mean, the drop was brutal and turned the entire game on it's head, but the kid is the youngest player on our team who was put in a gigantic spot, in the snow, on SNF.

It's tough to rip the kid to shreds when you see veteran guys like Leodis McKelvin make that mistake all the time in big crucial moments against us.

 

[patriot1136]

But that's what I'm talking about. Why isn't he better on the outside? He's like 6'8"! WTF?! Brady should just be able to throw it somewhere in the atmosphere and have Chandler go up and get it! But he can't. Why? I don't understand. He doesn't even really have to jump either.

True, at 6'8" he should almost have an easier time. With that, his blocking should be better too since he may be able to overpower the defensive players.

 

[chasa]

chandler looked like he wasn't giving 100% at times last night. Pretty much every throw to him down the outside when it was 1 on 1, chandler was 2 steps behind the db. This has been an issue the entire year, they need to stop calling that play with him because he can't run it.

 

[supafly]

I'm down on James White as well. We've been hearing reports for awhile now about how he just doesn't look comfortable, and how he struggles in pass protection. Some of our well respected posters have confirmed that while attending TC.

Last night was a game against a tough defense where we would've used guys like Vereen and Lewis all night long. As a matter of fact, a big part of the game plan was taking advantage of their LBs, and still...Brady targeted Brandon Bolden on multiple occasions and White was missing in action. If he can't see looks last night with the specific game plan AND all of the lack of options, that about says it all.

I'm certainly not giving up on him, but I don't think we can count on much production, either. Hopefully, he turns it around.

 

[jboston19]

Chandler was also uncovered on one of the final drives. Brady tried to get the C to snap it, but he missed the signal and by then Talib slid over. Ended up being incompkete, thrown away.

 

[PatsBoy12]

chandler looked like he wasn't giving 100% at times last night. Pretty much every throw to him down the outside when it was 1 on 1, chandler was 2 steps behind the db. This has been an issue the entire year, they need to stop calling that play with him because he can't run it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was playing a bit woozy. His head looked like it hit the ground pretty hard on the incomplete slant where his legs were taken from under him. I have to watch the game again, though.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I'm down on James White as well. We've been hearing reports for awhile now about how he just doesn't look comfortable, and how he struggles in pass protection. Some of our well respected posters have confirmed that while attending TC.

Last night was a game against a tough defense where we would've used guys like Vereen and Lewis all night long. As a matter of fact, a big part of the game plan was taking advantage of their LBs, and still...Brady targeted Brandon Bolden on multiple occasions and White was missing in action. If he can't see looks last night with the specific game plan AND all of the lack of options, that about says it all.

I'm certainly not giving up on him, but I don't think we can count on much production, either. Hopefully, he turns it around.

He's been so disappointing to me. Even Bolden is making plays and he's more or less just a STer. White only practices one role for a while now. C'mon. He just doesn't have the extra gear, mentally or physically, for the pro game, or so it appears.

 

[turkeyneck]

I've been thinking about the conundrum that is Chandler since I got up this AM. We all recognize that he was a Patriots killer during his time in Buffalo. That's why Bill brought him here. Yet, since becoming a Pat he's shown only the faintest glimmers of what we expected. There's a mis-match between the two situations that needs explaining.

I don't think Chandler's changed. The Buffalo fans warned us accurately that he would be just what he has been so far. So being a Patriots killer was something that wasn't inherent to Chandler; it was something about the Patriots. That is, the Patriots allowed Chandler to do damage when he was playing for Buffalo by the way they defended or, better, chose not to defend him. Without searching for film, just going by memory, my recollection is of him catching a lot of uncontested balls in the middle of the field, behind the LBs and in front of the safeties. "Where's the defender?" is my clearest memory of games against Chandler.

If other teams aren't willing to do us the courtesy of likewise leaving him as undefended as we did during his Buffalo stint then I don't think we'll see much of the 'killer' Chandler we were hoping for.

 

[meatface]

Chandler was overrated coming in by fans and perhaps the team. I guess I don't really get the hate toward white, I mean I'd like to see the guy show more but he's not a bum just because he hasn't played as well as Lewis had been. The Dobson hate on here is dumb, if you want to say he hasn't been able to stay healthy you can but people on here wanted to cut him for harper. He played well when he was actually on the field

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[supafly]

Chandler was overrated coming in by fans and perhaps the team. I guess I don't really get the hate toward white, I mean I'd like to see the guy show more but he's not a bum just because he hasn't played as well as Lewis had been. The Dobson hate on here is dumb, if you want to say he hasn't been able to stay healthy you can but people on here wanted to cut him for harper. He played well when he was actually on the field

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I think the consensus has been that White has struggled since day one, meat. He hasn't looked good during the summer or even the preseason, and there's obviously a reason why Belichick, McDaniels and Brady won't look to him in a game like Sunday's where the entire gameplan was based on taking advantage of their LBs in coverage. This should've been a game where he shined.

At the moment, he has the perfect opportunity to step up now and show something. No one is doing anything whatsoever in the run game and they're desperate to find some weapons on offense due to injuries. If White doesn't show us something soon, it may be a bad sign for any hope of a role he had here in N.England, not just for this season, but possibly for next season as well.

 

[supafly]

I have to watch the game again, though.

Let me save you the misery, bud. It's not something that's going to put you in a good mood.