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Whining will be LdT's legacy

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JMarr, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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  2. O.Z.O.

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    I personally thought it was funn y to see him standing on the sidelines...again...

    At least he did it with a lot of class.:D
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kriegel's argument is moronic. The Chargers were 'tough enough' to win the game. They had the game won when they recovered Cutler's fumble. The official screwed them, and admitted he blew the call.
  4. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    For this play and this game, I agree with LT.
    It was a terrible call and if that was the PATS, we would all be pissed off
  5. MoLewisrocks

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    They still had a chance to stop Denver from scoring. Couple of 'em actually. Whining begets a loser mentality, which is why Bill will not allow it here. Life is full of tough breaks, it's whether or not you are mentally tough enough to overcome them that makes the difference in succeeding or failing.

    And hey, maybe they should have shown up to play a little sooner and taken the refs as well as the opponent out of the equation... that has also been a recurring theme for the Chargers.

    Borges is right - essentially saying to the JETS if you fail to learn from the past you are doomed to repeating the same mistakes.
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  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hate to say it, but I have to actually agree with Tomlinson here too. The game shouldn't be won on a blown call. But at least the referees were classy in blowing the call.
  7. Robdude

    Robdude Rookie

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    I was hoping to be the first one with a 'class' reference. O well too slow I guess
  8. ScottieC

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    In all fairness to the Bronco's, Shanahan gave them the opportunity to STOP them on the TD and the incredibly STUPID idea of going to two rather than for the tie.

    I understand it was a bad call and I'd be pissed off too, but please - they still had two shots to stop the Bronco's and failed.

    That's the bottom line: They Failed to stop the Bronco's from scoring - They can blame the ref's all they want, but the ref's don't play LB or SS.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  9. Deus Irae

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    Sorry, but if you watched the game, you know that the Chargers were screwed on two officiating calls, not just one. I'm not saying that the Chargers are mentally tough:

    See post #13:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/74909-what-happened-lawimpian-tomlinsons-heart.html#post754837

    just that using last night as any sort of an example is beyond ridiculous.
  10. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    The only reason why I see where the author is coming from on this is because Cutler's fumble wasn't forced. The Chargers didn't personally do anything to earn the victory, the Broncos just handed them the game and then got bailed out by the ref. If Cutler hadn't committed that fumble (which was nothing to do with the Chargers) then the Broncos would have won anyway. Yes the Chargers should have won and yes they got screwed, but I think one of the main reasons they ended up losing is because they are the type of team to dwell on how get screwed over rather than to suck it up and focus on stopping the Broncos like they would have had to do in the first place. The fact that the ref blew the call and the Chargers should have won doesn't mean they deserved to.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  11. BoTown

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    Horrible call, but...

    ...The scoreboard still read SD 38, DEN 31 at the conclusion of the play.

    ...The Chargers defense allowed the Broncos to score a touchdown on 4th down, AND allowed a two-point conversion with the same play with the same receiver both times.

    Despite the miscall the Chargers still could've put the game away and they didn't. Much like they didn't put away the Panthers last week. Hard to sympathize with a team that gave up 39 points on defense.
  12. SVN

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    as BB said in SB 39 . "Do your job and move on to the next play". Every charger fan has right to be angry and iam sure if the pats were at the end of this we would too. But shanahan gave them a chance . he converted on 3rd and 10 and then converted on a 2 pointer. in my opinion the PI calls the broncos got in the AFC div game were far worse since they just put the ball on the 1 yard line. broncos made the needed plays in this particular case and won.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Given that they "gave up 39 points on defense" because of horrible officiating, it's not hard to sympathize at all.
  14. PatsWickedPissah

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    It was not "stupid" for Shannahan to go for 2. Most probably he felt that his best weapon vs SD was his O. Probably felt that his D, not that effective, was geting tired. Why let the pure chance of a coin flip strongly influence the OT winner? He's won SBs and has proven to be an elite NFL coach, FAR better than all but a very few.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  15. hambone1818

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    Count me as being in the camp that this is one where some whining is in order. Granted, the Chargers didn't do themselves any favors giving up 31 points, then couldn't hold the line on those two plays to give the Broncos the lead. But in a game where your team had done enough to win it were it not for a referee's blown call, I'd be mighty pissed as well.

    Tomlinson will whine in the future, and we can all knock him then...but for one day I give him a pass because the players on the field wrapped that game up, and yet a second chance was given due to poor refereeing.
  16. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

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    I still don't feel bad for them. It's the Chargers, after all. But you did remind me of the Champ Bailey play that they couldn't review because the equipment wasn't working. That was unacceptable. I know I would be bull****ting if that happened to the Pats.
  17. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    But they had nothing to do with the fumble. Had Cutler not inexplicably dropped it, that defense would have most likely been responsible for 38/9 points anyway. Horrible officiating had nothing to do with how weak that defense looked. And I agree they got robbed, but they still let the Broncos all the way into their redzone yet again, and the Broncos should have scored yet again if it weren't for a mindless unforced mistake.
  18. dhamz

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    The call was what it was - it was horrible. They should have won the game there.

    They also had not one but two plays where a stop would have won the game after that. They didn't get it done.
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that the Chargers are mentally tough. I'm saying that the writer choose a piss poor game to use as his example. The Chargers lost THE PARTICULAR GAME IN QUESTION because they got completely screwed by the officials, not because they weren't tough enough.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  20. spacecrime

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    Yes, agree. People pay more attention to the last play of the game, but it was one of a LOT of plays run in that game.
  21. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Yes, I feel for them, and if the Pats lost that way, you're right: I'd be complaining along with most of us here

    BUT here's teh point you are missing: The Pats players would not be in front of cameras whining. I would be very disappointed if the Pats players whined like LdT does

    If he hadn't told us, I wouldn't even realize that he was a very classy guy.
  22. neuronet

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    I know I'd be pissed if it happened to us! Sure, the Dolts defense had two (additional) chances to win the game, and blew it. It was an honest mistake, the ref had a bad angle from behind the QB. Perhaps, though, he should have let the play go knowing it would be reviewed (by then the replay equipment was working).

    It would have been cool if the ref got to the mic and was like...ummm, we request that CBS show the play from multiple angles so the review officials can watch it in the tower. :)
  23. PrairiePat

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    Sorry, but I completely sympathize with the Chargers here, and that's coming from someone who despises the Chargers and LdT. Most NFL games are decided by a small handful of key plays - it's inexcusable for the refs to hand not 1, but *2* such plays to the Broncos.
  24. neuronet

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    My favorite quote from the article:
    (For the record, I am sympathetic to them, but less so when LT0.0 whines).
  25. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    Agree - Eddie Royal has had DBs for lunch in the end zone the past couple of weeks and he was the reason the Chargers lost like Royal was the reason the Raiders got burned in the secondary the previous week.

    The Chargers secondary absolutely sucks in the red zone or shall I say end zone

    2 consecutive losses by a WR overpowering the Chargers secondary or getting open enough to grab a TD pass twice and a 2pt conversion in the first 2 weeks is pathetic - SDs secondary coach needs some major work getting his players to cover guys within a 7 yard radius
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  26. PromisedLand

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    Best quote from the article:


    The Chargers do have a right to be miffed, but referees are only human and to err is human. Tell me, Mr. LDT, that you never made a mistake. Tell me, Mr. Turner, ... well it's not even worth asking in your case.

    As with the tuck rule call "against" the Raiders in the 2001 AFC Championship Game, this call did not decide the game.

    In 2001, the call (which we of course now know was universally confirmed as correct by league officials and others in the know) only gave the Pats a second chance. The Raiders still had the chance to stop the drive - several times, and couldn't do it. The game was then tied and went to overtime, wherein the Raiders had another chance to prevent the Pats from scoring the winning points and failed to do so. Yet how many Raiders players, or fans blame their own defense for that loss?

    It was the same Sunday with the Chargers. Denver still had to score a TD from 3rd and goal at the nine - a FG did them no good - and then they actually gave SD a more than fair chance (IMHO) to win in regulation by going for the 2 point conversion. Once again, the SD defense failed to stop them.
    So stop your whining and go and make some plays on the field. Thems the breaks. They go for, and against, everyone, given enough time.

    And one final point for Mr. Classy: the officials are accountable. As has been widely reported, the league keeps stats on every official, and it has a bearing not only on their assignment to playoff games, but even to their continued employment. I wish I could say the same about baseball umpires.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  27. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The game was over if the right call was made. That was not the case in 2001.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  28. NovaScotiaPatsFan

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    Standing? Last time I saw him on the sidelines he was sulking sitting down on the bench with his visored helmet and a jacket on in the AFCC game. :D

    They even made an action figure to commemerate his most frequent position.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  29. lostjumper

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    The Bronco's scored 39 points right? You can't whine about a call if you give up 39 points. Yes, 1 bad call resulted in the bronco's getting 6 points. The chargers still gave up 32 points all by themselves. If they had made stops earlier the call would have been a moot point.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  30. PatsFaninAZ

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    I think you sort of have to just do the math. First, you have to take into account the possibility of failing on one-point kick after touchdown. I think those are made about .965 of the time. Then you have to take into account your chances of winning in overtime. I don't know what Shanahan thought those chances were. Let's say he thought it was 50/50. That means if you decide to kick there, your chances of winning are about 48.25 percent.

    If you think you have a play that has a better than 48.25 percent chance of success on the two point conversion, it seems like the right call to me. If I remember correctly, Denver also had at least one time out left. So, you have to also add in the possibility of recovering an onside kick and getting a field goal. Admittedly, that's a low probability, but they still would have that option and it's worth something if they fail to convert, and it's part of the math (there is a corresponding possibility that you have to take into account on the other side, if you go for one point and miss, you can still onside kick, but this is a much smaller number).

    Now, if an honest assessment would have said the chances of converting the two-point conversion was closer to 40 percent, and if Shanahan did it anyway because of his "gut," I have no use for a coach like that. No thanks -- the fact that it worked out notwithstanding.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
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