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Whiner-gate

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanInVa, Sep 28, 2007.

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  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those of you who've seen my reaction to the "nut-uh we don't cheat!" threads know I'm something short of a full-on homer when it comes to the ahem, Incident.

    But I'm also beyond annoyed at other teams using the "get out of losing free" card, by claiming various sorts of poor sportsmanship/cheating on the part of the Pats. JP Losman -- who is such a loser, it's built right into his name -- now says Wilfork intentionally injured him.

    Oh yeah. That Vince Wilfork. He's notorious.

    This is just the latest in a series of comments about the Patriots' poor sportsmanship -- almost all coming from someone who has lost to the Patriots.

    I realize just about everybody has done so, but these are the guys that have lost big: Hines Ward. Jerome Bettis. Lady Tomlinson. Donovan McNabb. JP Losman. Who'd I miss?

    I do remember back in the day, everybody in the league has a story about Conrad Dobler of the Cardinals, but they were pretty much considered colorful funny stories.

    Other than that, I can not remember a time when more players came forward to courageously whine on camera about the conduct of a team that coincidently beat the living crap out of them in an important way, or in a recent game.

    To this extent, I will jump on the homer bandwagon: it's like it's open season on the Patriots, past or present. Anything bad that happens in a game or as the result of a game, it's considered "fishy."

    So here's the thing - one of the things I've actually learned from football that applies to life, is **** happens and you move on. It seldom matters why. It seldom even matters if there are mitigating circumstances when your own performance is not considered superb. It matter that you find a way to move on and win.

    That's why I have issues with what I see as cameragate denial -- it becomes all about what "everybody else does" and all about "good intentions" and what one was "trying to do". It should be about "did you break the rules?" We knew the rule, we did it anyway. Move forward.

    But a more eggregious example of externalized locus of control is the reaction of players and even some coaches, who just blatantly go out and say "we would have won [I would have kept my job] except the Patriots cheat," in so many words.

    Is the league headed toward a Critical Mass of Whininess? What happens to the competitiveness of the league, if players take this as a general, recognized, and condoned trend -- blaming losses not on their own play, but on their opponents' perceived intentions and bad actions?

    Thoughts, please.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2007
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Thank goodness we have one more thread for people to cry about 'camera gate'!
  3. Tucker

    Tucker Rookie

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    We win. they whine. That's just they way it is now. Football players are now primadonnas and the league allows this by constantly changing rules so no one gets hurt. In 20 years the NFL will be reduced to either flag or two hand touch. That's just the way it is.

    Let's move forward...onto CINCI!
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Its easier to accept a loss when you can rationalize "we/our team isn't bad".We lost because the Pats cheated. We'er the better team, just look at us on paper. We have more talent so we didn't lose the Pats must have cheated us out of a win.
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hey good point. I blame myself. Quelle ironie.

    Screw it. Thread's here now. Vent 'em if ya got 'em.

    PFnV
  6. djmika760

    djmika760 Banned

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    I agree that we should move on but its hard to get past the punishment. Does anyone else think that the fine was a tiny slap on the wrist compared to other minor infractions with bigger consequences?
  7. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    The only thing about this that makes me worry is that some idiot (probably from an 0-8 Bills squad) is going to try and take Brady's knees out. It would be worth the money for a bitter opponent. It almost happened in the Titans game last year.
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've heard both arguments (if you're serious,) that the fines/pick were a "slap on the wrist," and that they were "excessive."

    I think the fines were the max allowable, and the first round is the highest one in the draft. Goodell specified he thought they'd impact the team more than suspending BB (his other option, we'd assume.)

    Seems to me if everybody's unhappy, he got it jusssst right.

    PFnV
  9. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Rookie

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    I was just thinking the other day, how glad I am that we don't have whiners on this team.
    When we lose, you don't hear our guys making lame excuses, or crying about how "sometimes the best team does'nt win".
    There's no crying in football.
    At least, not in New England.
    Thank goodness.
  10. djmika760

    djmika760 Banned

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    Actually I do remember some crying in NE when the Dolphins supposedly stole their audibles last season. If BB thought it was "okay" then why would they complain?

    And to "PatsFanInVa" we all know that a multiple game suspension for BB would have hurt the pats waaaaay more than a fine and a pick. Cummon now...
  11. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    #50 Jersey

    I'm kind of enjoying being the bad boys. For years the Pats were the Patty Cakes, Goody Two Shoes, etc. Suddenly in one fell swoop they're DASTARDLY. I can deal with this.:D
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2008
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uh that looks a little buccaneer there dude... but I feel ya.

    Still need to get around to photoshopping a flying elvis on a darth vader helmet...
  13. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    I know. Look at the bright side. It'll pi$$ some more fans off.

    Darth could be the man here.
  14. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

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    It's the classic loser's lament. It happens in every sport.

    1. Blame the refs if possible.

    2. If you can't reall do that, look for something non sporting the other team did.

    3. If that won't work, call the other team classless.

    4. If that fails, call the other team's fans classless. Pick a bottle throwing incident or something -- anything to distract you from having lost.

    5. If all that fails, or even if it doesn't, get into an extended discussion about who is "better," as though the NFL standings give a crap.

    This is not unusual. This is not patriots specific. In fact, on the rare occasions our team does lose, this board falls into exactly the same loser's lament. Everyone is the same. Patriots and their fans are no different, other than winning more. Our current coach has the players slightly better conditioned to not speak out than other teams. But ultimately, it's only about Ws and Ls. All the rest is noise. Let them all bellyache and don't give it a thought. Getting worked up and posting about it just gives them what they want. It means we're winning. I can guarantee there will be a day when we're not winning. Absolutely guarantee it. Hopefully it won't be for an extended period of time, but given the cyclical nature of sports it might be. And we will bellyache and our players will say things the winners will make fun of.

    That's sports.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    shhhhh. The more crap we get from other teams, the more pissed ours gets.

    But seriously folks - this has not been you average every-day moronic "they won but we're better" routine. This has been a way for players and coaches throughout the league to get a pass on past failings, and it seems like the fans have written a blank check to do just that.

    When the day comes (hopefully not in my lifetime) when the Pats once again stink to high heaven, I can only hope both the team and the fans steer clear of excuses as best they can.

    But as long as BB is coach, my money is on him and every one of his players saying what they've always said after a loss: "They were the better team that day/it's disappointing, we just didn't get it done/etc."

    I've never seen Belichick talk about the bad call beating us, or the cheaters on the other team, or whatever. I've never seen our players go that route either during their interviews. Maybe I just haven't seen those interviews because I don't live in NE... but I'm pretty proud of what I see out there when Pats' players are interviewed, win or lose.

    Of course, we may have the arrow of causality reversed: Maybe knowing you can't make excuses makes the game more of a crucial thing. Maybe you win because you don't make excuses, rather than vice versa.

    PFnV
  16. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    All good points.

    Competition committee plus insecure commissioner = trouble. Institutionalized whining by losers. After years of fixing rules and interpretations Polian is actually a winner. Matt Millen? Outside of Ozzie, thisis a bunch of losers trying to use the commissioner to run the league. Of course Fredo Mangini and former Jets employee Goodell are tight too.

    "Millen will fill the seat vacated when Charley Casserly resigned as general manager of the Houston Texans earlier this year, NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue announced Friday."

    "Rich McKay, Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher, Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis, New York Giants co-owner John Mara, Baltimore GM Ozzie Newsome, Indianapolis president Bill Polian and Carolina president Mark Richardson."

    You want to see what happens when a commissioner is just a puppet for certain owners? Bud Selig and the sport that used to be baseball.
  17. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    Competition committee

    I heard Marvin was in favor of creating a "get out of jail free" card, like monopoly.:D
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  18. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do differ with the idea that they're (ownership, league brass) "all against us," at least to the extent that it affects more than the merest margins of the game.

    I think the fans and media are currently having a field day. Everybody loves to see a god toppled. But you'll notice the press is now about "can the Patriots go 16-0," and the monumental chip on this team's shoulder.

    Idiots. WTF did they think was gonna happen? I, and some others here, have been saying this was coming since early on.

    I'm smack in the middle of the road, I guess, with the yellow stripes and the dead armadillos. (See me hate both sides of every issue in blog form at http://www.patriotsexpatriot.blogspot.com/)

    The problem with the "NFL is gunning for us" hypothesis, is that a beatable dynasty is actually good for the game. At no time did the Patriots get the "invincible" rap that the Cowboys had in their hayday. Even during the 21-0 streak, it was believable that they would lose.

    The League has to function as a business. And it's determined it can't do that if the deck is stacked for the "rich to get richer." But just like the "any given Sunday" possibility, it has to be possible for a team to rise to dynasty status.

    Competition is the product, and the League has to to field 32 competitive teams. No game can be a foregone conclusion. Any of you guys stop watching during "the streak?" I didn't. That's because in the modern era, any given team can raise itself up and trounce you.

    By the same token, establishing something distinctive, as NE has done, is all about beating the odds. The fact that we've done it is to the credit of the "perfect storm" of Belichick, Pioli, Brady, and Kraft. Each is the best at what he does in the NFL... and only Brady is reflected in the salary cap.

    And the Competition Committee can not just outlaw winning, or for that matter even approach it. They have as much to lose by a perception of bias, as they have to win by reinforcing parity.

    Just rambling,

    PFnV
  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Question, who determines who is on the comp committee,and how has Napolion stayed on it for such an extended time?
  20. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    The teams that blame someone other themselves for their loss are only asking for more losses.

    I think BB knows this very well. That's why he always focuses on the ways our performance has fallen short, even when we win.

    If you lose because "the other team cheated," "the refs were against us," "we had some bad luck," there's nothing for you to fix.

    It's hard to deal with reality if you refuse to see it.

    So all in all, it's good for us when others blame their loss on our cheating. It diminishes their ability to fix their own problems and it annoys our guys.
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